Bev Desjarlais

[Softwood Lumber, October 4th, 2001]

Absolutely, Mr. Chairman, without question. We have been calling on the government for some time to utilize the EI program. It was intended to be there for drops in employment and when there are massive layoffs so that we can keep our economy stabilized and provide support for workers.

The EI was not intended as a cash cow for the finance minister but that is what it has been used for. We must make sure the EI program is there to provide support for unemployed workers including forestry workers

[Softwood Lumber, October 4th, 2001]

Mr. Chairman, it is a pleasure to rise today in the House of Commons to speak on behalf of the New Democratic Party in today's debate on the softwood lumber industry. It is about time we had this debate because this issue has been dragging for far too long and I am sure my colleagues here in the opposition feel the same way.

I recognize that since our return on September 17 the House has been charged with a number of issues related to the terrorist attacks. I would like to acknowledge the co-operation of all parties to ensure that this debate took place before we take our Thanksgiving week break.

My NDP colleagues and I began raising this issue in the House of Commons last March when it became clear that we were heading into yet another softwood lumber dispute with the United States. At that time I was thinking, here we go again. Why do we always end up in these situations vis-à-vis the United States?

Having recently been appointed the NDP industry critic, I started looking into the matter back in March. Since then I have had the opportunity to meet with many people involved in the industry, from the unions that represent the workers in the industry to the representatives of the lumber companies that operate in the different regions of our country. That is an important thing to note. The softwood lumber industry is a national industry, but the way it is managed and runs differs from region to region. That is why it is important to listen to people from all the regions to get the proper national perspective.

In addition to my one on one meetings, I also had the opportunity to take part in some very good committee meetings on the subject. I have learned a lot about the softwood lumber industry over the past months. I have come a long way toward answering that question I was asking myself back in March, why do we keep ending up in these lumber wars with the U.S.?

The bottom line is that the U.S. is prepared to do almost anything to keep Canadian lumber from capturing more than 30% of the U.S. market. Anytime we do that, and it happens because we have a stronger, more competitive industry than it does, the powerful American lumber companies and U.S. lumber unions take their clout to Washington and the U.S. government starts these trade wars.

Each time the Americans start one of these wars, it ends up getting resolved by a temporary agreement or treaty. The last time was in 1996 when Canada and the U.S. signed a five year softwood lumber agreement, a five year ceasefire. The treaty expired in March 2001 and the U.S. went into its protectionist mode by imposing the 19% tariff on most Canadian lumber. Because of these tariffs, 15,000 lumber workers have lost their jobs since April. We have to stop this situation now.

A lot of people wonder how the U.S. can get away with putting these tariffs on Canadian lumber when we are supposed to have free trade. The North American Free Trade Agreement is supposed to guarantee the free movement of goods and trade between our two countries. This shows how weak and ineffective the NAFTA regime is. Whenever we in the NDP criticize NAFTA for these kinds of shortcomings our political opponents put on their smokescreens and say “You New Democrats just oppose open trade”. Well it is not true. We want open trade with our friends and neighbours in the United States.

The problem is that NAFTA is not good enough. It is supposed to protect us from unilateral protectionist actions by the U.S. and it does not. To prove it, look no further than the softwood lumber industry and the 19% tariff that the U.S. is now putting on Canadian softwood lumber.

I am not the only one who thinks this way. Allow me to quote the president and chief executive officer of the Maritime Lumber Bureau, Ms. Diana Blenkhorn, who told the House of Commons Sub-committee on International Trade, Trade Disputes and Investment that, “The history of NAFTA to date, relative to softwood lumber, shows it has not done the job, quite frankly”.

Here is a quote from the same meeting with Mr. David Emerson, co-chair of the Canadian Lumber Trade Alliance. Mr. Emerson told the committee: “We do not have any faith in the trade litigation framework that exists today because it has been designed by the Americans, for American producers, to be as punitive as it possibly can be”.

NAFTA has not done the job. That is why we have never reached a final, permanent resolution to this issue. Instead we have gone from short term agreement to short term agreement with periods of trade wars and tariffs in between. The last thing we need now is another short term band-aid solution. What we need is a long term solution to provide stability for the industry and the people who rely on forestry for their employment.

Again, I am not the only one who thinks we need a long term solution to break out of this cycle of trade wars. All the business leaders and unions representing forest workers that I have heard from are saying the same thing. I would like to quote Mr. Haggard, president of the Industrial Wood and Allied Workers of Canada Union. This is Canada's largest forest union.

Mr. Haggard told the committee that his union and the forest workers he represents were prepared to live with the short term pain of the current tariffs for up to two years if the federal government used the time to craft a real long term solution so that this would be the last time we have to go through this process.

The unions and business agreed that the solution was open trade with the U.S. The forest industry and unions told us they were prepared to ride out the storm a little longer if we could secure a permanent end to the bullying U.S. protectionist measures rather than another short term band-aid solution.

However the problem is that the Liberal government is not doing that. It should be standing up for Canadian jobs and industry, and instead it knuckles under to the U.S. There is so much it could be doing to help Canadian forest workers and to protect jobs but it is not doing any of it.

Where is the income assistance plan for the 15,000 people who have been laid off? We in the NDP called for that two months ago and we have not heard a peep from the Liberal government. Where are the measures to stop the export of raw logs to the U.S.? Exporting raw logs rather than processing them in Canada is like the export of jobs. We have been calling on the Liberal government for years to help keep these jobs in Canada.

It should be working with industry to develop our processing capacity so that we could export more finished wood products instead of raw logs and keep the processing jobs in Canada where they belong.

We need the federal government to stand up for Canada's right to manage our forests in an environmentally sustainable way. In our federal system conserving and managing forests is a provincial responsibility. In Manitoba most forestry takes place on provincial crown land and each year the province sets quotas for the lumber companies. In that way the provincial government is able to balance the needs of industry with the imperative that we sustain our forests and our environment.

However the maritime provinces manage their forests differently than Manitoba. In New Brunswick, for example, most of the forests are privately owned and not on crown land.

I prefer Manitoba's way of doing it because it is more environmentally friendly, but I recognize this is a decentralized federation. Each province is different and has the right to chart its own course in areas of provincial jurisdiction.

The U.S. has been saying that it likes the way some provinces manage their forests but not others. It wants to force us to change the way we manage our forests to the least environmentally sustainable model. It calls the crown land model used by Manitoba and other provinces to protect the environment an unfair subsidy.

This is unacceptable and the federal government needs to stand up to the U.S. and say that it is not a subsidy. It is environmental management and the U.S. has no business interfering in our federal-provincial division of powers.

The NDP wants to see open trade with the U.S. without compromising our right to manage and preserve our forests for future generations. We need sustainable forest management to maintain jobs now and in the future so that there will always be enough trees for future generations to harvest. We need fair and open access to the U.S. market through effective and balanced trade deals, not unbalanced trade deals like the one we have now.

[Transportation Appeal Tribunal of Canada Act, October 4th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak on behalf of the New Democratic Party as we give second reading to Bill C-34. It is always a privilege to have the opportunity to speak on behalf of the NDP and of my constituents in the Churchill riding.

Bill C-34 would establish the transportation appeal tribunal of Canada. The independent quasi-judicial body would be made up of people with expertise in the transportation industry and would be an expansion of the Civil Aviation Tribunal. The mandate of the Civil Aviation Tribunal was provided for by part IV of the Aeronautics Act.

The Civil Aviation Tribunal has been extremely successful and has been recognized as a model for the enforcement of the Aeronautics Act. It makes sense that such a tribunal be available to other areas in the transportation industry.

At the request of interested parties the Civil Aviation Tribunal holds review and appeal hearings with respect to certain administrative actions taken by the Minister of Transport. Extending the tribunal to other transportation areas is a move that I believe would be welcomed. The creation of the transportation appeal tribunal of Canada would provide the marine and rail industries and the aviation sector with an impartial appeal and review system.

The transportation appeal tribunal would replace the internal review process that currently exists. In the current system, enforcement decisions made by inspectors are subject to review only by senior officials or the minister. It would be preferable to have a separate and impartial body to hear appeals.

If anyone does not think the Department of Transport needs a separate and impartial body to oversee its decisions, we should look no further than at what the department is doing to hours of service regulations for the trucking industry. The bureaucrats responsible for that file are trying to get Canada to adopt an 84 hour work week for truckers. In certain weeks truckers would have to work 96 hours.

I will not get into the mountain of evidence from scientific experts in the area of fatigue and sleep deprivation indicating the sheer madness of the proposal. That can be done another time. My point is that the minister can do this with no accountability. He can do it through an order in council on the advice of his bureaucrats .

Truck driver hours of service regulations would not be covered by the legislation. Nor should they be. However the issue serves as a useful example of how it can be useful at times to have an impartial outside agency in place to review ministerial decisions.

All this is to say that the New Democratic Party supports the general principle behind the bill. We welcome greater scrutiny and oversight into ministerial decisions. Bill C-34, by providing for an independent quasi-judicial body to review decisions in the transportation industry, is a step in the right direction.

Having an independent and effective review and appeal process for the transportation industry quite frankly makes sense. The tribunal, in helping deal with appeals and reviews of administrative and enforcement actions, would prevent action from being taken in court. In short, the tribunal would simplify and streamline the whole appeal and review process.

We will need to look more closely at some of the finer details of the bill. It is important that the tribunal have members with expertise in all areas of the transportation industry. It is perhaps worth considering having separate tribunals to deal with individual appeals and reviews in each sector.

It may not be appropriate for someone without knowledge of the rail industry to rule on issues concerning rail. However I am sure this and other questions could be discussed at committee. The NDP is prepared to support the bill in principle at second reading.

[All-Numeric Dates Act, October 2nd, 2001]

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to speak on this debate tonight. I want the member for Elk Island to know that when it was mentioned today that private members' business was the issue of the dates, I automatically thought that it was his bill. I have seen it come by my desk each year as we come back from our summer recess and I automatically thought it was his. In heart and soul it is his, and he can take credit for that at least.

My colleague from the Bloc said that this is a logically rational standard. What is scary is we all agree it is a logically rational standard and we do not have it in legislation. Following the standard has been voluntary but putting it in place has taken some 31 years.

If I recall correctly, when I started my first full time job after high school in the early 1970s the whole metric issue was just coming out. People were cursing, screaming and complaining about the metric system, about having to change miles to kilometres and about having to buy new measuring cups. They were going to have to do all these horrible things, but they did them. They did it as far as kilometres and miles because they did not have any choice. Signs in one municipality could not be in kilometres per hour and the signs in another municipality in miles per hour. It had to be standardized. We recognized that and it was done.

After high school my first full time job was doing clerical work at a hospital. I was told that the date had to be written down by year, month and day. It seemed totally logical to me. Of course I was a young person getting out in the workforce and I was going to do everything I was told. I am actually recognized as being a bit of a goody two-shoes about following rules and regulations. I have faithfully done this year after year because I was told that was the way it had to be done, that it was the law. I thought it was all part of the same law on the metric system.

Imagine my surprise a few years ago when I saw the proposal by my hon. colleague from Elk Island that we put this date system in place with regard to evidence. I would go a step further and say we have to legislate it. It has been 27 years since I started doing it, and if it is still voluntary and a good part of the industry is not following it, then it is time to go that step further.

I have listened to my colleagues here who all recognize that this is a good thing. Canadians must be wondering, “Why the heck are they not legislating it? This is common sense”. Then they probably think, “That explains it. It is common sense. It is logical and rational. That is why the government is not doing it. It would make sense”. The entire parliament is agreeing on it, so the government is not going to do it. We should be standardizing the date to year, month and day.

My colleague from the Bloc mentioned the seriousness of it. He is quite right. I indicated that I did clerical work in a hospital. We can well imagine what would happen if each and every nurse, doctor and every other health care professional chose to write the date as they saw fit. If a case went before the courts, or if someone checked back on certain procedures, medications or other things on a patient's record, the dates would not be known. A number of patient records go beyond one month and the dates could be different within the files.

I would stand here and say no big deal within the hospital system if the rule were in place and everybody followed it. Quite frankly, as the years progressed, fewer people followed the standard. I was the kind of person who said that we have to follow it because people would stray from it. It did become an issue. Even though the hospital had it as a standard, over the years it sort of lost its clout and it faded away and there were differences.

It is crucially important that we do not leave those issues to chance. There is a safety concern.

As far as bank statements, pension accounts and those things are concerned, it is not okay to have a difference. A number of people out there may not recognize that the dates are written differently.

We need a standardized date. Quite frankly it needs to be legislated. Hopefully then in 27 years we will all be doing it properly because quite frankly the voluntary way has not worked. It is crucially important that it goes a step further and is legislated.

The bill by my colleague from Peterborough is not a votable item. I was going to stand and ask for unanimous consent to make the bill votable, however I agree that clause 6 just does not cut it. I think the bill has to go back to the drawing board. My colleague from Peterborough and possibly my colleague from Elk Island should throw it back in the bucket and by some logical chance, or maybe by some great chance the Minister of Industry could take the bull by the horns and put it in place without having to go through the whole process because it is the right thing to do.

[Canadian Airline Industry, October 1st, 2001]

Mr. Chairman, my colleague from Halifax says $7.20 in Halifax. Every couple of years the contract comes up for renewal, but the employer tells them if he cannot keep his costs down he will not get the contract and they will be out of a job. I have seen it happen on numerous occasions where those contracts have changed every two years in some airports. It is crazy. How can we have qualified, experienced people working at an airport doing airport security checks making $6, $7 or $8 an hour and taking the flack they take? It just does not work.

What has happened since September 11 is that the failure in the security system has been highlighted and people are uneasy. I am not saying that that is the reason the attack happened on September 11 because it is not. I do not think that because those few knives went through that the attack happened. However, people are more uneasy now because they are questioning everything that is happening as far as security.

Last week or the week before that, ten pounds of cocaine were found on the inside panel of an Air Canada jet landing in Winnipeg. It had come from Bermuda or the Bahamas through Florida up to Winnipeg. I believe that has happened on eight occasions in the past five years where drugs have been put in panels in different spots in an aircraft. It comes right through all the systems. A fairly easy way to deal with that, at a little more cost, is to have sniffer dogs to check this out.

We all recognize that when drugs are involved, this increase tension and the risk of danger on aircraft because these people can be dangerous to deal with. Workers are enticed in some of those areas to be part of that, thus increasing the risk to travellers.

From a security perspective, a number of things have happened. The minister announced improvements to the cockpit doors. I think everyone thought, thank God at least that has happened. People will at least feel they have a door between them and that hopefully it will be thick enough that it cannot be booted in. Let us face it, if any of the doors on the planes right now were locked, we could boot them through with a little kick of our leg or a push of our hand. So hopefully that will help.

However, we have to wonder that, if the pilot of the plane knows his crew and passengers are at risk, how strong will he feel about not opening that door? No question, September 11 will have changed a lot of people's thoughts, but in time how would that pilot feel about leaving his crew and passengers on their own?

I believe other security issues are being looked at such as cameras or contact devices where there can be notification that something is happening.

These are all excellent security measures, however, there is a lot more that could be done and it needs to be done. If we want to get the confidence of the travelling public back, it is not good enough just to say the skies are safe, get up there and fly. We have not proven to Canadians that the skies are safe, not when reports indicate that 18% of checks show that all these different things go through. These are not little things, not like a little file that is in someone's pocket, but guns and explosives. That is crazy. It should not happen.

Certainly from a security perspective there is a lot that needs to be done. As a caucus we strongly believe that the department and the Government of Canada needs to take over the responsibility of operating the airport security, without question.

It is a sure way. I do not agree with everything the U.S. has suggested, certainly not the air marshals. An air marshal with a gun on a plane is not going to make me feel a whole lot safer about flying. There are some things that can be done to improve the security measures. Having the national security overseeing what is happening and doing part of the baggage checks now is definitely a plus.

From the perspective of the situation of the industry and where it was before, we all recognize Air Canada was in a bit of a pickle before September 11. If anyone goes through their clippings from Transport Canada and from the industry, they will see numerous clippings about the number of job layoffs in the province.

From my perspective that just exemplifies what we as a caucus, as a party, have maintained all along. Merging those two airlines without any kind of regulation was not going to save the airline industry. Something as basic as regulating domestic capacity would have saved both airlines, Air Canada and Canadian Airlines, if we had done it internationally with a strong international market. In other words, if there were so many people flying out of Calgary, then there should be so many carriers there. If they reached a certain number, then another carrier could be allowed there.

We should not allow this cutthroat kind of approach where we have two aircraft right after one another and not expect to have problems in the airline industry.

With Air Canada, Mr. Milton made a lot of promises he did not kept. I listened to that man say to numerous employees and numerous people that this was what they were going to do and that everything would be wonderful. He said that he would save the world, that everyone would have their jobs and that it would be fair for Canadian Airlines and Air Canada employees. It has not been, but in spite of that they tried to work it out. It was not a pleasant situation.

On top of that, even at this crucial time with a destabilized industry, he is still talking about pulling certain jets off from regional areas and starting up a low cost airline. Mr. Milton should give his head a shake. If we will not fly with his company on regular basis, why would we fly with him on a low cost one? Most air passengers will say that they cannot get much more low service than what they have got for the last little while. Jokes about the pretzels are minor. The service was not good just a short while before September 11.

From that perspective, there needs to be some rules put in place. I hope the market can handle this. I hope all these people who believed in a capitalized, private market that would set the tone and pace and provide everything we need feel good about this because it has not and it has jeopardized the whole airline industry in our country. It has not worked.

I encourage, especially at this time, the government if it does not do any other regulation, at least regulate domestic capacity and do not allow the airlines at this time try to cut each other's throats and jeopardize the whole industry. There needs to be a cooling off period. We need to put up the cautionary flag like on the race track. The yellow flag is up for this many laps guys, until the industry gets a chance to stabilize. Let us see how that works. We might find it is the best thing we can do for the airline industry in Canada.

To also assist in the economic downturn, we mentioned a number of things over the last couple of weeks. I will credit the minister because he has been in the House probably every day since this all started. Although we do not always appreciate his answers, to his credit he has been here each and every day, taking the flak and doing it rather graciously.

He knows that I have never been one for favouring the cutting of the airport leases because I always felt that if they wanted this privatized system, they could pay market value.

However with the situation in the airline industry, the government should look at cutting the airport leasing fees or reducing them, whatever needs to be done to give all airports in Canada a fair shake, and as a result make sure they pass that savings on to the airlines. Again, everyone benefits.

The government should be giving greater support to NavCan so it does not have to increase its fees and hopefully be able to low them. Again, this would benefit every airport in Canada. We would not have a situation where only a few benefited.

Members will not often hear us talking about giving corporations tax deferrals, but this probably is one of those times where interest free loans are an appropriate way to go. This is a crucial time. The rules changed on September 11.

From the perspective of the workers, the Minister of Finance will have to give up part of his cash cow, the EI fund of the Minister of Human Resources Development. He will need the assistance of his colleagues in the cabinet. That EI fund is intended for specific things. Numerous members have criticized the use of it over the years. It has been used as part of general revenue. This is a crucial time and that EI fund needs to be there for all those workers who will feel the impact.

The suggestions that have come from a number of the unions such as the IAM, CUPE, CAW--

[Canadian Airline Industry, October 1st, 2001]

Mr. Chairman, I would like to acknowledge all the members who are here this evening to take part in this take note debate to highlight some of the key issues related to the September 11 attack.

From the airline industry perspective, we are looking at three specific types of issues. First is the security of airports. Second, is the devastation of the industry and the economy and the domino effects it will have. Going along with that, third, and it is important that we list it and pay special attention to it, is the number of workers who will be laid off as a result of the number of the companies that have been affected. This has been mentioned by my colleague from the Bloc and we need to highlight that as a key issue.

On the last issue and the second one, it will involve not only the transport minister's willingness but the willingness of the members of his cabinet to do what was intended by their own departments. I will comment on those a little further.

I will start off by commenting on the security. The minister mentioned a number of things that have been done. Quite frankly, a number of things now being done as we go through airport security, such as checking with electronic devices and all these things, have been in place for a number of years. They should have happened all along, but there was a failure to ensure that they were being done. Electronic devices were always supposed to be checked. Every laptop was to be opened and every cellular phone and camera checked. However the travelling public gets in the way of that.

Security guards take a lot of flack at the airports. They earn $6 or $7 an hour.

[Airline Safety, September 28th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Transport was quite right when he said our airport security does not need to exactly mirror the U.S. to be safe. Many people think that some of the U.S. measures like armed air marshals are making it easier for generals to shoot down civilian airliners and will actually make people feel less safe in the air.

That being said, the minister has not convinced Canadians that our security systems are fine as is. One can become an airport security guard in Canada with 20 hours of training. That is the same amount of training that one gets at McDonald's.

Why will the minister not admit that this training is insufficient and that contracting security out to the lowest bidder is--

[Infrastructure, September 28th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, the Canadian economy is free falling into a recession. We have not seen a week with so many job losses and falling stocks since the early nineties. If ever there was a time that we needed a new infrastructure program it is now.

A new infrastructure program would accomplish two things. First, it would stimulate the economy by creating jobs and help avoid a recession. Second, it would address the long overdue repair and improvement that our national infrastructure desperately needs.

The Liberal government has been neglecting infrastructure for years now and that neglect is being felt around the country. In every province and territory we have highways that need improvement and public water systems that are not up to the demand. Our crumbling infrastructure must be improved.

On behalf of the New Democratic Party I call on the government to stop standing idly by while our economy continues to sink. It is time for a new comprehensive national infrastructure program.

[Agriculture, September 27th, 2001]

If he was on the ropes we would at least have a fighting chance. He is out of the ring. The problem has come up time and again in the House over the last number of years and it is still there but there seems to be no real plan to address it.

My colleague from Brandon--Souris mentioned the NISA program. The NISA program did provide the support that was needed but that is no longer the case. As the member indicated, it no longer works because it was used too often.

We all have heard at some point about the AIDA program which was there to help out during hard times. I heard much discussion going back and forth, but when we are not critics in that particular area, we do not always pay attention to every single thing that happens. We have so much to do each day in our own critic areas and in the different committees we attend that we can only to do the best we can in other areas. We do not always take everything in. However, the one thing everyone in the House knows is that the AIDA program was not working.

I never lived on a farm but I was around farming communities all my life. I have family members who are farmers, and they have a saying, as useless as tits on a bull. When something does not do the job it was supposed to do, that is the saying a farmer uses. That is exactly what the AIDA program was.

What we need see from the government is a dramatic change in its efforts if it wants to address the problem with agriculture in Canada, no ifs, ands or buts about it.

It is not okay to say that we are going to support numerous other industries but to heck with agriculture. As a Canadian I am not willing to have that happen and neither are the people in western Canada. We want agriculture. We want the family farm. We want those things to be part of Canadian culture but the government has been pulling the rug out from under agriculture and not giving a helping hand when farmers need it.

I want to refer to some statements made by my colleague, our agricultural critic. He said that following the 1993 election the Liberals adopted the Reform Party's policy of slashing agriculture support and shifting to an industry shaped entirely by market forces.

The European community was not willing to do that. It said it wanted to protect its agricultural industry. It knew that to maintain its farmers and their way of life it would need to give them support. The European community would not cut subsidies as has happened here. The federal Liberals did not need to cut as deeply as they did.

There is room for Canada to give more support to farmers without provoking WTO or NAFTA challenges. It can happen. Money can go into farming without it becoming a cross-border issue. It is a red herring to suggest it is not possible.

There is not a huge amount of farming in my riding. However because of the size of my riding, which is most of Manitoba's land mass, there are some farms as well as pretty much every industry one can imagine.

This summer was disappointing for farming areas in my riding. Farmers tried to diversify as the government told them to do. They invested more in cattle production and different types of farming. They expected support from the government for infrastructure programs if, for example, they had to fix their water supply. There were huge problems with the water supply to farming areas. A good number of farming areas in the west do not have water piped in to ensure a safe supply.

Projects had been started and an impression was given that PFRA would be there to support farmers and give more funding. In the past week one of my colleagues from the Alliance mentioned during question period that the money was gone in a couple of days. That is the reality. There was such a small amount of money in PFRA that it was not there to support farmers who needed the assistance.

The municipality and the province had put money toward a project to put in water lines and get them out to all the farms. Some were done and the rest were supposed to follow but there was no money. We were not talking about billions of dollars for the farmers. We were talking about a couple of million dollars but they could not get it.

Every time I see things come across my desk regarding industries in eastern Canada getting dollars I get ticked off. Industries in eastern Canada may not like hearing that, but quite frankly it is true.

A good number of people in the west no longer feel they are part of Canada. However there are those of us who will not say to heck with Canada, pack it in and become another country. We are fighting to stay part of Canada and make Canada recognize that it needs to treat all regions fairly. It must give support to all of them and not just certain areas. That is the way it must be.

I get darn annoyed when I see that happening. If the government is to get people back onside it must recognize that we must be the true nation we are and support each other from region to region in times of need. Otherwise there will always be hard feelings.

In my first campaign I was travelling around my riding and someone in one of the smaller communities referred to Ontario as the middle east. That was a classic. I have used it ever since.

I appreciate the work and the efforts of people in Ontario and throughout the country. I was raised to appreciate every aspect of the country. That is what we were taught in our schools. Quite frankly, the government needs to go back to the classroom. It must learn that to build a nation and keep it strong it must treat every region fairly. That needs to happen with agricultural producers in western Canada and throughout the country, or it will not work.

[Agriculture, September 27th, 2001]

Madam Chairman, I am pleased to have the opportunity to take part in the discussion on the situation with agriculture producers in Canada. Those most deeply affected over the last number of months have been the farmers in western Canada. All of us have been affected in some way, shape or form, but certainly in Alberta, Saskatchewan and into Manitoba it has been an extremely tough time over the last number of years.

Knowing that, I picked up notes from my colleague, the agricultural critic, the member for Palliser, and noted the number of times we have had discussions on agriculture in the last short while. We had an emergency debate in February or March and we had discussions in March and April but we do not seem to be able to come up with a proper program or plan to assist farmers. I do not think anyone can.

We have a serious problem in agriculture. All one has to do is go out west and drive around the farms in some of those areas to see what they are going through.

Some farms, depending on where they are, are doing okay but the majority are really feeling the pinch for a variety of reasons, a number of which have been mentioned.

My colleague previous to me indicated that he hopes the agriculture minister will go in and fight and do what he has to do. I hate to say this but, quite frankly, we can only send the same fighter in so many times. When he does not do the job, we have to give him the hook. If he is not doing the job, we get him out of the way. He is not doing the job he is supposed to be doing for farmers. He is not promoting the agriculture industry in Canada.