Gordon Earle

[Marine Conservation Areas Act, October 29th, 1998]

Madam Speaker, with regard to influencing members of other parties, I firmly believe that each individual must decide for himself or herself as to which direction they go and how they see it in representing their constituents.

I would certainly put forward any suggestions we receive from our constituents that might help to improve the bill.

[Marine Conservation Areas Act, October 29th, 1998]

Madam Speaker, the member has asked a number of questions and I do not know if I will be able to address all of them.

The point I was making when I spoke about the Newfoundland experience was co-operation. I was talking about the consultation process and the process of people working together to try to find a solution. I was indicating that it must be a central part of the bill if we are to move forward.

I was not particularly endorsing the specifics of any kind of agreement, but I was talking about the co-operation principle as being necessary.

[Marine Conservation Areas Act, October 29th, 1998]

Madam Speaker, I agree with my hon. colleague from the Bloc Quebecois that there are some problems with the bill. At the outset I said we approved the bill in principle and went on to explain the kinds of things we want to see for the Atlantic region.

Certainly there are some obstacles that have to be overcome. The hon. member has identified some of them as has my hon. colleague. We hope that these can be worked through at the committee stage to the point where we are satisfied that what moves forward will be in the best interest of all.

[Marine Conservation Areas Act, October 29th, 1998]

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to rise today on behalf of my constituents of Halifax West to speak on an act respecting marine conservation areas.

Halifax West, as we know, is a riding that embodies many coastal communities, Portuguese Cove, Hatchet Lake, Peggy's Cove, Ketch Harbour all the way down to Sambro right through to Hubbards.

These coastal communities know full well the importance of marine conservation. Being a people by the sea, we recognize the importance of having a pristine environment and keeping it that way for our children and our children's children.

This bill is designed to provide authority for the establishment of marine conservation areas with the objective of protecting and conserving a variety of aquatic environments.

This bill also confers a range of regulatory powers for the protection of living and non-living marine resources and their management and use in a sustainable manner.

That is a very important feature for those of us living in the Atlantic provinces. We realize it is important to have a sustainable environment.

There are important principles embodied in this bill. The preamble talks about establishing a representative system of marine conservation areas that are of sufficient extent and such configuration as to maintain healthy marine ecosystems.

Halifax where I grew up we have a beautiful harbour. It is a harbour that is sheltered and does not freeze during the winter. It is ideally situated for shipping and transporting goods and yet this beautiful piece of nature is being polluted daily by many runoffs of raw sewage and effluent being dumped directly into it. This has gone on for years and years.

It is hard to imagine in this day and age that we would allow such a thing to continue. There have been studies on the shelf and off the shelf, back and forth, about how to clean up the harbour and yet today we still remain with that very serious problem.

It is important that we look at marine conservation. Anything that can be done to improve those situations is certainly going to be welcome in the Atlantic provinces.

The preamble further talks about ensuring that Canada contributes to international efforts for the establishment of a worldwide network of representative marine protected areas. It emphasizes the globalized nature of our society today.

We know that what happens in one part of the world certainly affects what happens in another part of the world. We have to be able to share our environment and to look after our environment in a way that will benefit all.

It talks about considering implications for ecosystems in the planning and management of marine conservation areas to provide opportunities for the people of Canada and of the world to appreciate and enjoy Canada's natural and cultural marine heritage, and provide opportunities, and this is important, within marine conservation areas for the ecologically sustainable use of marine resources for the lasting benefit of coastal communities.

In Atlantic Canada we are a people who live by the sea so I rise on behalf of Atlantic Canadians because we know full well from past experiences what can happen from resource exploitation.

We know about the overfishing off the Atlantic coast. We know how the large trawlers have been allowed to come in and deplete the fishing stocks. We know about the mismanagement of the fisheries. We see lost stocks and we see the impact on the communities in these areas, people who have come to rely on subsidy programs and so forth, people who are unable to find new occupations because their livelihood has been destroyed and yet they know of no other than fishing.

We know full well that the environment must be managed in a sensible way. The marine conservation areas provide opportunities for Atlantic Canadians through preservation and conservation.

If this bill is implemented properly with some of the improvements that have been mentioned by my hon. colleague, we know that such things as ecotourism and research will provide opportunities for Atlantic Canadians. There will be opportunities in the field of marine biology and the ocean sciences and so forth. We would welcome those opportunities in Atlantic Canada.

The Atlantic Ocean has 10 identified marine conservation area natural regions. These are Hudson Strait, Labrador shelf, Newfoundland shelf, the north gulf shelf, St. Lawrence estuary, Magdelan shallows, Laurentian channel, the Grand Banks, Scotian shelf and the Bay of Fundy.

My hon. colleague has already mentioned the experience of the Saguenay—St. Lawrence marine park, Bill C-7, which the NDP supported last fall. This was indeed a wonderful example of the possibilities of co-operation between governments and community consultation.

I can assure my colleagues that the NDP will be encouraging community participation on this bill because it is very important that we have true consultation, not just a quick hello, how do you do with the communities involved but true consultation to receive the input from the communities that will be affected by this bill.

The sea is very important for people in Nova Scotia.

I can recall as a young lad going to the sea with my parents and grandparents and digging clams along the seashore, fishing off wharfs, that type of activity. We did not worry about whether fish were contaminated, if we could eat the fish we caught or whether to be concerned about the clams.

But nowadays the first thing we think about if we go fishing is whether the area is polluted. It is a shame that our society has come to that stage. Certainly we want to encourage marine conservation and do everything possible to present a pristine environment for people.

I could talk a bit about some of the successes that have taken place around this issue. We have the Bonavista and Notre Dame Bay project which requires the participation of 32 diverse and proud communities with a wealth of experience.

Following the memorandum of understanding signed between the federal and provincial governments there was a number of feasibility studies done and there was initially some skepticism around this. But eventually this was followed by acceptance and hope. There has been a lot of local input and ideas that are now being listened to.

It is a remarkable about face on fisheries and ocean matters in Newfoundland, a region that has been decimated by government interference and bungling. Indeed the entire Atlantic region has been interfered with and bungled in terms of the fisheries.

We can see why this initial skepticism in that area was warranted but now we see that things are starting to turn around as a result of consultation and community input. Local fishers in the community came up with an idea related to local lobster. They started the East Port Lobster Conservation Authority and designated some of the best lobster areas within the bay as no take zones. These types of measures are being taken.

We see this type of community co-operation and this community based program works. Catches are up by 97% through proper resource management. It is a combination of conservation and common sense based on science. These successes can be carried forward through the legislation that is being looked at here.

While this progress is being made in Newfoundland we have to ask ourselves what is stopping this government from proceeding with consultation and identification of specific conservation areas for the remaining natural marine regions.

Comments that have been received by the New Democratic Party on Bill C-48 carry a common theme, conservation and preservation and good stewardship of our marine areas. This is a necessity. It is a requirement for our future generations of Canadians.

As noted by my hon. colleague, this process began 10 years ago but much more needs to be done as we enter the next century. We would trust that this legislation will be carefully examined at committee stage. We trust there will be appropriate improvements made and that hopefully at that stage there will be more community input, more opportunity for aboriginal people who may be affected by these areas, to have their say around what is happening as well as others who are concerned.

Working together we can come up with something that is going to make our environment something we will be proud of, something we will be pleased to leave to succeeding generations.

I call on my colleagues to look at this bill, seriously examine it, give input to improvements and do not, once it is passed, allow the government to delay when royal assent is given. Move quickly. Atlantic Canadians deserve our best efforts.

[Committees Of The House, October 27th, 1998]

Mr. Speaker, I commend the hon. Bloc Quebecois member and also my colleague from Sackville—Eastern Shore for their comments about how important this east coast fishery report is for the Atlantic region. It is of significance to my community of Halifax West where there are many fishing communities. The importance of the recommendations in that report cannot be underscored enough in terms of how it will assist the people in those communities.

As a member I find it very disturbing that people can deal with a report or an issue, come to a conclusion and then not have the strength and the courage of their convictions to vote in favour of what they decided was in the best interest of all. Before I entered politics I said that I would not allow politics to change me. It saddens me as I sit in the House and watch time and time again the faces of people on the government side as they vote on issues in a manner other than which they believe. It is very discouraging. I have talked to many people individually. We saw it happen with the APEC situation. People have told me they believe in the human rights issues involved but when it came to the vote we saw a different thing.

This report provides another opportunity for those people who are seriously concerned about the well-being of the fishers on the east coast. It provides an opportunity for them to stand up and be counted and to do what is right in the eyes of all.

[Mi'Kmaq, October 26th, 1998]

Mr. Speaker, Mi'kmaq of Nova Scotia have achieved tremendous gains since the failure of the government's disastrous centralization policies of the 1940s when over 1,000 Mi'kmaq were forcibly removed from their communities, loosing homes, farms, schools and churches in the process.

October is Mi'kmaq History Month. I am pleased to draw the attention of all Canadians to this event. I am honoured to offer tribute in the House of Commons to all the Mi'kmaq who worked to maintain and develop Mi'kmaq traditions, education and culture.

The time of the harvest is indeed the most fitting time to celebrate the ongoing contribution of Mi'kmaq, not only to their own first nation but also to Nova Scotia as a whole and to all the Atlantic provinces. Part of the bounty reaped through Mi'kmaq efforts this year have been the tremendous gains in the area of Mi'kmaq education in Nova Scotia.

My NDP colleagues and I salute Mi'kmaq's struggles, achievements and many victories.

[Fishers' Bill Of Rights, October 26th, 1998]

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to rise today in the House to support Bill C-302.

People who make their living from the sea have always been central to the culture, economy and social life of the maritimes and certainly of my riding of Halifax West. For the many people who work to sustain themselves, their families and communities today, dating back to the very first aboriginal inhabitants of our region, fishing has been a way of life in the deepest sense of the word.

For untold generations people have challenged themselves and the elements to sustain their livelihood and that of their families from the wealth of resources beneath the waves. From their own successes and mistakes people have learned about fishing. They have become knowledgeable about tides, seasonal variations, fish stocks, the winds, equipment, and all that is necessary to learn and develop the profession of fishing. Fishers have been taught by their parents and by their communities as a whole. They have also learned from other communities and increasingly from fishers in other countries. There have been times when even government efforts and research have proven useful.

The people of Halifax West who make or hope once again to make their living from the sea face a growing danger. This danger has caused thousands of people to lose their livelihood and equal numbers of families to lose any security for their children's future. This peril is responsible for the unbelievable event of entire fish stocks being wiped out. This danger is the federal government's mishandling of fisheries issues.

I support the right of fishers to be involved in every aspect of decision making and the implementation of those decisions that affect their livelihood. Who else has the knowledge to craft the best answers about fish stock assessments, fish conservation, the setting of fish quotas and fishing licences? Certainly not the Department of Fisheries and Oceans bureaucrats living in Ottawa.

It boggles the mind that the Liberal government has chosen not to involve those who make their day to day living in the fishing industry as part and parcel of the decisions that in turn will directly affect and often threaten their livelihood.

The decisions made by the roughly 800 DFO bureaucrats in Ottawa are based on what knowledge? Is it by studying and analysing the movement of fish in the Rideau River in Ottawa or by consulting the occasional ice fisher on the Ottawa River? It is certainly not by working on a day to day basis with those in the industry, armed with the experience and skills to assist the government in making decisions.

We can be sure that the government consults very closely with top executives of big banks about decisions that might affect their billions of dollars or with top multinational corporate executives about decisions the government might implement that would affect their operations. However the government treats fishers as the uneducated and insignificant. It is a crime. The cost of that crime is a mismanaged government department making bad and often absurd decisions. It hurts people who make their livelihood from fishing in St. Margaret's Bay and throughout my riding.

A case in point is the announcement early this year that fish quotas for Nova Scotia would be 5 fish per person or 25 fish per boat for non-commercial fishers. We could hear the laughter of fishers in response to this in my riding all the way from Herring Cove to Black Point. Just who would those supposedly enforcing this regulation charge if there were a number of people in a boat and too many fish? Would it be the one in the boat closest to the shore or the tallest one? Who? This decision is absurd and unenforceable because the decision was made in Ottawa without the proper input of those who do the fishing.

The government's mishandling of TAGS and the post-TAGS program has condemned thousands to poverty and helplessness. There are over 40,000 fishers out of work. The government has spent over $3.4 billion in income support.

Ultimately decisions made by Ottawa bureaucrats about the livelihood of those living over 1,000 kilometres away pits people against people and community against community. Fishers should be consulted about the allocation of quotas as the bill recommends and about proper gear and equipment. Fishers should be consulted about fish stocks. We all know fishers were warning about the cod stocks long before the government in its too little, too late fashion slammed the door shut on an entire industry.

The people in my riding who make their living from the sea are not millionaires. The people who fish or want to fish in Sambro, Ketch Harbour, Portuguese Cove and East and West Pennant cannot easily weather huge losses due to bad federal government decisions. However they have to, time and time again, simply because people who fish are not considered by the Liberal government to be key players in decisions about the fishing industry. With the fisheries dying the last budget of the government did nothing for those in the industry.

Bill C-302 which sets out to ensure fishers are central to decisions affecting the fisheries is nothing more than plain sense. Everybody would win. The bill should certainly be sent to the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans for study, improvement and support.

One example of the government's fisheries minister hiding his head in the sand is the current serious dispute in the lobster fisheries in southwestern Nova Scotia. This dispute involves commercial, aboriginal and non-aboriginal lobster fishers. Did the government play a leadership role with the long term security of this fish stock and the livelihoods of these people at the forefront? No. Once again it has hidden its head in the sand and refused to sit down and talk with those in the industry about the best and most reasonable long term solution for all involved.

It seems everybody but the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans and the Ottawa top bureaucrats is able to reach an agreement on the threat posed to this industry by the government's refusal to centrally involve fishers in every step of decision making and implementation. The Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans was able to produce two reports unanimously agreed to by five different federal parties.

How did the government respond? It was by yanking the member for Gander—Grand Falls out of the committee chair spot. This committee did its best to base its efforts on what it has learned from people in the industry, and that is what may have upset the government.

It only makes sense for those who fish for their living and those in fisheries industries to participate in a meaningful way in federal government decision making. I fully support the bill and challenge every government member to support it. The people who make their living or hope to make their living from the fisheries in my riding of Halifax West deserve no less. All those in similar positions across the country deserve no less.

[National Defence, October 23rd, 1998]

Mr. Speaker, the recent Labrador helicopter crash killed six Canadian crew, 12 Sea King crashes killed 7 Canadians and Chinooks were sold to the Netherlands at a loss of millions.

Instead of gambling with more Canadian lives in proven unsafe Sea Kings over one-third of a century old, will this government now provide safer options for our military and civilians that come to terms with this government's fatal mismanagement of the search and rescue helicopters?

[Volvo Canada Ltd., October 22nd, 1998]

Mr. Speaker, the Volvo plant in my riding is now occupied by employees afraid for their future. Will this government commit right now to actively do everything in its power to ensure these workers are treated fairly and to try to find a solution to keep these people gainfully employed?

[Canada Customs And Revenue Agency Act, October 21st, 1998]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise this afternoon to speak on Bill C-43, an act to establish the Canada customs and revenue agency and to amend and repeal other acts as a consequence.

Just to set the tone for my remarks, I want to read from a letter which was sent to me by one of my constituents:

“Dear Mr. Earle:

I am a public servant with Revenue Canada. I am writing to you to voice my concern with the proposed Canada customs revenue agency. As an employee of Revenue Canada, I have a vested interest in the department as it exists today and may be greatly affected if the intended changes to the agency status are implemented.

“If Bill C-43 is passed, I feel that the new agency will be less efficient than the status quo. The agency would also threaten the personal privacy of taxpayers. Finally, I feel that the agency would not deliver promised cost savings and may even lend to the imposition of user fees by both business and the general public for the privilege of paying taxes.

“In closing I ask that you review in depth the proposal for the Canada customs revenue agency. I do not feel the changes will be in the best interests of myself, the provinces and the people”.

That is one letter of many that I received from people in my constituency. All the letters I received had the same kinds of concerns expressed. Some have gone even further to indicate: “The fact that my position will be guaranteed for only two years after the agency commences as well as a threat to my negotiated benefits greatly disturbs me. I also find it difficult to trust an employer who has allowed our collective agreement to expire over a year ago”.

Although I have many points that I could speak on, I want to speak briefly on a few that have been raised by people within my constituency, concerns that have been expressed about this new creation that will take place.

The first is that the agency will become a mega taxman, and the term mega is being used a lot nowadays. We hear about it in terms of the proposed bank mergers, megabanks, and for some reason people, the government in particular, seem to feel bigger is better. But I am reminded of an expression that my mother taught me many years ago which was that good things come in small packages. We all must appreciate that small things are very important and have their place. For example, a big vehicle can come to a stop because of a very small micro computer chip or a very small part in its engine. So bigger is not always better.

There is concern that this new agency will become a very large agency. We realize there are over 40,000 employees with Revenue Canada and $2.2 billion in revenue will be transferred to this agency. It proposes to administer everything from provincial sales taxes to gasoline taxes to liquor taxes. The vision would see a mega taxman who would offer even services to the municipalities. Do we really want Ottawa involved in our property taxes and things like that? Do we really want to put this much power in the hands of a government agency?

A second concern that has been expressed is that the agency will reduce accountability to the public and to parliament. This has been expressed by my colleague who spoke earlier and by others. We know that Revenue Canada as it presently exists is accountable through a minister, but with the creation of a new kind of arm's length agency there will be less and less accountability. As envisaged, this agency's enabling legislation will permit a full parliamentary review only five years after it has begun operation. We know a lot can happen in five years. That has been stated already. A lot can go wrong in that period of time. We do need to be concerned about the accountability function that will be sorely lacking if this new bill is passed.

Another important concern is the agency could jeopardize personal privacy. The aspect of personal privacy was one of the themes that rang throughout the many letters that came to my office in the constituency. We know we live in an electronic world today where there is more and more information about ourselves and our families being quite often sold by various companies, by private sector organizations all the way from credit card companies to charities to consumer goods and companies. We realize that our personal privacy is a very important feature today. We can see what is happening when we look at the APEC inquiry and the concern that is coming forth as we see documents being tabled which show that there have been security investigations and for whatever reason people's names being placed on lists without their knowledge.

This is the kind of society we live in today. There is a great concern about this new agency becoming a big brother where there will be a great deal of financial and other information about citizens available through this agency.

Even internal memos in Revenue Canada have acknowledged: “There are privacy concerns among some stakeholders related to the creation of a big brother. Everyone should share these concerns”.

I will mention another concern that was raised which was spoken of earlier. It is the effect of harmonization of the GST and the provincial sales tax beyond the maritimes. This was something as we know that started out with the government's intention of doing this right across the country. Originally this idea was to make sure that all provinces had a harmonized tax system but it only went as far as the maritimes. People in the maritimes have spoken loud and clear about how displeased they are with that effort in their area.

Some people might say there is an advantage to a combined administration. You will not have to deal with two taxes. You will have to deal with only one. But we know that one tax extends further and further into the lives of ordinary citizens causing them to pay tax on things they normally would not have to pay tax on and creating a great deal of hardship for lower and middle income people.

This concept of the blended sales tax is something we should be very careful of and the intent of this new agency will probably carry it beyond what we see even today.

Rather than go on at some length about the many disadvantages of this new agency that will be created, I conclude with a few remarks in a letter from another constituent. These remarks hit the nail on the head about the kinds of things we should be concerned about with respect to this bill: “How will the agency be accountable to us? By our MPs at present, when the organization is no longer a government department? If the government is looking for something to spend millions of dollars on, here is an idea, our health care system”.

That constituent makes a very real and important point that we should get our priorities straight and in order. She says “As a voter and taxpayer I am taking this moment to let you, my representative in parliament, know that I want this tax monster stopped and that we the taxpayers are tired of the government wasting tax dollars on things that are redundant and not necessary”.

I think that says it all. With those remarks I would say that we are opposed to the bill. We trust the people of Canada will express their concern and that members of the House will express the same concern and not support the bill.