Jerry Pickard

[The Budget, February 24th, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, I would also like to ask a question of the member and congratulate him on his presentation.

I have a bit of a problem with the position he took with regard to the military. I think it is very clear that as the budget came down, the finance minister and the minister of defence had a mandate to reduce expenditures and costs. Certainly there is a review of the military and that is extremely important as well.

However, if they were not to take steps and measures within this budget of a $1.9 billion reduction we would have a deficit, in addition to what there is at present, of $1.9 billion more.

Is the hon. member suggesting that those cuts not be taken and the deficit be increased?

[Excise Act, February 22nd, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the question.

Without strong measures being taken, as this government is doing right now, we would be caving in to chaos, as far as I am concerned, and to a lawless society which openly-and we have seen it very openly in this country-sells contraband products. It has spread across this country very widely. We have to look at some of the root causes of that.

I believe part of the root cause is the taxation structure. I believe part of the root cause is the dissension people feel toward taxes at this time in our history. I believe other parts of the root causes are suggestions by people in authority that law and order is not to be upheld or strongly adhered to.

It is very important for all Canadians to be sure that this government will uphold the law and bring in whatever measures must be taken in order to make certain that the law is enforced.

We do not worry about the people who would break the law. We punish them.

[Excise Act, February 22nd, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, as far as the number of agents goes, Customs Canada is presently putting an additional 350 people into increased enforcement. They are providing 24-hour service at 22 ports to handle more than 99 per cent of the commercial traffic in this country.

When we talk about increased police enforcement, the bill is to open the opportunity for provincial police forces to operate under the excise tax rules and regulations. Therefore without extra cost to the taxpayer, we are increasing the number of people who can effectively work in this area by hundreds of thousands when we consider the major police forces like the OPP in Ontario and la Sûreté du Québec in Quebec. Therefore policing has opened up very greatly as well.

When it comes to the implementation of the age 16 to 18 law, it is very clear that there are different regulations in different provinces. However, in this case we are allowing or forcing the importation of cigarettes to be done only by people beyond their 18th birthday. Therefore we have changed the regulations and forced that age up two years from what it previously was.

[Excise Act, February 22nd, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, I wish at some time we might have an easy issue to debate in Parliament but this certainly is not one. What is the problem we are addressing? It is a major health problem and there is no question about that.

I for one would be most happy if the federal and provincial governments never got one penny more in taxation from cigarettes. Many Canadians feel the way I do. The reality is however that there are people who smoke and will continue to do so. As a result that habit has created a problem. Looking at this rationally and reasonably we have to deal with that health issue and this legislation is attempting to do that.

The problem is not only a health issue, it is an enforcement issue. An underground economy, an illegal business or trade, is being carried out in this country in monumental proportions. There is absolutely no question when looking at the facts. In Quebec over the last four years this contraband trade has gone from 9 per cent to 60 per cent. In Ontario it has risen from 13 per cent to 35 per cent. In the Atlantic provinces it has risen from 12 per cent to 40 per cent. Just last year in the west it increased from 9 per cent to 15 per cent, which is a 60 per cent increase.

There is an illegal trade going on which is very damaging to the country. It is also providing megadollars to those people who carry out many other illegal illicit trades.

When we hear about millions of dollars being made overnight in illegal tobacco and the expansion of this across the country, I do not think there is anyone in Canada who does not want to see very strong measures brought against that trade to stop it from continuing. Therefore there are certain steps to be taken which everybody in the House can agree to.

There are other problems involved in dealing with this trade. Number one is enforcement. How on earth do we stop this illegal trade and at what costs do we carry out that enforcement?

This problem is certainly mixed up with many things. I have received letter after letter from the cancer society, the medical associations and different groups concerned about the health of Canadians. They are very concerned that the excise tax has been removed from cigarettes.

Let us look at what taxation has been put in place and the reason for it. The federal government in looking at the problem has thought the only way to stop the illegal trade in cigarettes is to cut the profits of those organizations carrying out this activity. The only way to cut the profits is to bring enforcement upon them so strongly they can no longer function and to take away their profit base.

The cutting of taxes takes away the profit base of the contraband trade. Looking at the ability for them to function, when we remove from a carton of cigarettes $10 of provincial tax and $10 of federal tax taking the gross sale from $43 down to $23, we reduce their profits substantially.

It is true that the Canadian government does not take in as much revenue. However as this contraband trade has been increasing the federal revenues have been declining dramatically. When we talk about the percentage of losses in Quebec and Ontario and other provinces, those are all losses in tax dollars.

In reducing the excise tax on cigarettes we are reducing the profits of those people who sell illegal cigarettes.

When looking at the health problem we have to realize there are implications for all of our communities. Smoking cigarettes causes health problems in old and young people alike. Certainly the government has moved to correct some of that problem.

Looking at the health problem in general stopping young people from smoking is a major goal of this government. In order to prevent young people from smoking, a regulation has been brought in increasing the age for purchasing cigarettes up to 18 years. That makes it impossible for young people to buy cigarettes legally.

Members might say in some cases they can get cigarettes anyway. I would submit if contraband cigarettes are easily available, kids 11, 12, 13 and up will buy illegal cigarettes very easily. The resultant factor is as long as we allow the illegal trade to flourish and continue, more availability will be made for young people to purchase those cigarettes.

Therefore continuing along the same line as in the past would be counterproductive to health. There is no question it would diminish our ability to control the commodity and therefore allow more and more young people to get cigarettes at a very low price and to purchase them at any age they wish. The two major attacks on health would be gone.

The minister has also taken other steps to make certain there are more controls which brings me to the enforcement level. The RCMP has been given the power to work in larger numbers along with Revenue Canada customs officers. They will work against organized crime groups trying to stop the major suppliers of these cigarettes at any point. They will better patrol the borders by making certain there is 24-hour surveillance at many border crossings where there is only short-time surveillance now.

There are steps to very carefully check the sale of cigarettes across the counter within our communities in order to make it more difficult for traffickers at the street level.

There is no question that it has to be a strong policing action with the RCMP as well as strong policing action with Customs Canada to create better enforcement. At the same time the bill is trying to open up that enforcement to provincial scope as well.

Provincial officers in the province of Ontario and in Quebec will be able to work hand in hand with the RCMP and customs officers to try to curb this growing illegal industry. I might remind people in this House as well that the profits of that illegal trade do go into organized crimes. There have been very strong suggestions that groups from Montreal and Toronto such as Mafia organizations and Hell's Angels bicycle groups have all been involved with the illegal trade of cigarettes.

When it is stated that 95 per cent of the profits of illegal cigarettes goes into organized crime and works against Canadian society, we must take every measure we can to stop that from occurring.

There is absolutely no question when we look at the health problem and solutions to the health problem, they are not easy but the plan that has been put forth by the government is very logical. It is not easy to suggest that we reduce taxes and look as if we are caving in to organized crime.

At the same time it is taking the profits away from organized crime and creating an environment where their sales will not destroy more and more of the normal trade and therefore allow organized crime to totally control cigarette sales in this country.

It is important to realize too that there has been a manufacturers' tax placed on exported cigarettes to control the flow of cigarettes out of this country which are being recycled back into the country. The extra $8 on export tax will cost anybody who is trying to buy those and bring them back into the country more money to operate that illegal trade.

As we look at the whole picture, the government has tried to take into account health measures, enforcement measures and tax measures in order to resolve a problem, hopefully bringing us to a more prosperous future.

[Supply, February 21st, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. My colleague can finish his speech and other members may ask questions of him.

Would it be possible to get unanimous consent to carry on until 6.40 p.m.?

[Ethanol, February 14th, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, southwestern Ontario is on the verge of becoming home to Canada's first world class ethanol manufacturing facility. Ethanol, blended with gasoline, reduces automobile pollutants and is an extremely environmentally friendly product. Ethanol production will boost our world economics by creating a market for a million tonnes of grain and ensuring thousands of new jobs in the construction, processing, trucking and agriculture industries.

We must support the consortium of industry and agricultural representatives who are actively seeking a commitment of this government. The economic, social and environmental benefits of this project will develop in rural Canada and lead to a prosperous future.

I ask all colleagues in this House to join with me in support of this dynamic project.

[Speech From The Throne, January 27th, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, it is a very important point to make at this place and at this time.

We have had government that has not projected a very positive, open image to the Canadian public. We have certainly not supported the policies that have come down year after year in this place. Canadians have felt left out. They felt that they were opposed to many ideas and yet those thoughts were never listened to as carefully as they should have been.

The difference between a Liberal government and the previous government that we had was that we consulted with people for three years. We asked them what their concerns were. We tried to formalize round table discussions and openness with the public. That is the reason why we came up with a very concise, consolidated red book.

It is important at this point in time to realize that this government now is opening up debate in the House of Commons to allow members of Parliament to bring forth every concern they have from their ridings before the legislation is formulated and put in front of us. It is a total change of direction to allow members to represent the people in their ridings in this place and have some input ahead of time.

I am not into the Reform policy directions. I am not buying into its directions. I do believe our directions are those of openness, consultation and acceptance of ideas before we take action. That is extremely important. It gives the members of Parliament more power in this place and it gives the people they represent a way for their voice to be heard before the legislation comes down.

[Speech From The Throne, January 27th, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, first I want to congratulate you on your appointment to the chair.

I know the citizens of Stormont-Dundas, which you represent, are very proud of the effort you have put forth to help them solve their problems throughout the time you have been here. I know that will continue but they can be equally proud for the leadership that you will show in this House. I congratulate you for that. Some comments have been made jokingly about what is the most beautiful riding in this country. To me there is no question that the most beautiful riding in this country is where the heart is and my heart is in my home riding of Essex-Kent. Essex-Kent is the most southerly riding in this country, southwestern Ontario, and very much a rural, agricultural riding, one that has a smattering of small towns like those throughout rural Canada.

There is a great deal of concern in rural Canada about agriculture and agricultural problems. It is really one of the only industries that is so controlled by the weather, by outside forces that governments or others do not control. As a result sometimes they run through very difficult times, although they use the very best technology available to them. Although they are excellent producers they do run into rough times.

Just this past week we had severely cold weather in our riding and much of the soft fruit industry production is in jeopardy because of that hard freeze. That is the reality that agriculture faces. It is not protected from the elements many times and so the economy of much of rural Canada has to be looked at very critically and very carefully by governments.

Certainly Essex-Kent is an area where the people are vibrant. They work hard. They are well educated. They do the very best they can to make sure that their opportunities are fulfilled. There are times when government must be there with support. I feel that it is a concern in rural Canada today and we should make sure that their voices are heard and they are represented well.

I believe this Liberal government will address those concerns as well as all of the other concerns that I heard over the time that we were campaigning for election.

The red book has been mentioned a million times if it has been mentioned once. That red book was not just something that was grabbed out of the air at election time. Three years of consultation, hard work, round table discussions and efforts to develop policy went into that red book and the statements it contained.

The red book tried to address as best it could in 125 pages the concerns and many of the solutions that Canadians would see a Liberal government follow. Quite frankly, there is no question as the Canadian people became more aware of that red book they were quite happy with the solutions the Liberal Party put forward. That is why there are 176 members of the Liberal caucus here in government today.

I believe that the speech from the throne was a very strong reflection of the document that was put in place during the election. There is no question that the document was the blueprint of the direction we shall go. The speech from the throne was not a big political paper of 50 or 60 or 80 pages. It was as reasonably short, concise document that reflected the red book very carefully and brought forward the concerns this Liberal government has. It is important that governments go ahead.

The number one issue that I heard in my riding and as well colleagues across the country whom I have talked to heard was jobs. Certainly we feel that there is a definite direction to fulfil those jobs. A national infrastructure program was put in place so that each community across this country could see some immediate support from the federal government, the provincial governments and municipal governments to make certain that new jobs are brought into their areas.

Every member of this Parliament will see programs in their riding which will reflect this new job development. I have no doubt that when the list came out in my riding just two days ago of the number of dollars that were available for communities to motivate and start up new job creation programs, moneys that will eventually build into longer range job creations, they were very content and very happy. The communication that I received back just two days ago was extremely positive throughout my riding.

The national apprenticeship program, which is a program to help those who are unemployed retrain and redevelop, is there. It is certainly strategic to bring the skills of Canadians up to the levels required by business. It is very important that business, government and the labour force of this country work together as a unit in order to bring about job creation and job training

which will benefit those businesses, benefit the workforce and benefit our country in general.

That is the type of program that comes forth in national apprenticeship programs.

A youth service corps is contemplated in order to get young people into the labour force. Young people who are now presently at 19 per cent unemployment need to find a beginning, need to build resumes of work established. They have that opportunity through this youth corps. It is wonderful when I stop and think of the opportunity they will be provided with. We look at the high unemployment rate and know the government is taking a positive step to make certain the youth corps does develop.

Business has always had major problems in accessing capital when times were very tough. That is one of the complaints I have heard from business and one of the areas where this government will do its very best to make certain that there is capital accessible to them for development, for improvement and for dally functioning.

It is also important to realize that one of the major complaints of business is the huge amount of paperwork they have to do. The paper trails are getting greater and greater and greater. By putting programs in place to reduce this paperwork is the direction this government intends to go and a direction that will be welcomed by the business community throughout this country.

Last of all it is important to mention the Canada Investment Fund to support the leading edge of technology. We know that jobs of the future are going to be created if we do support that leading technological edge and move forward as the new horizons develop.

The debt and deficit have been a major concern across this country. The Reform Party has been talking very much about the debt and deficit. I believe the Prime Minister has not only talked about the debt and deficit, but he has actually taken very strong and major steps within his own operations.

I believe that the Prime Minister riding in a Chevrolet rather than a limousine is a true message to Canadians. I believe when he cut his support staff in the Prime Minister's office, sold the air bus, created a smaller cabinet, started on public consultations about the budget with the finance minister, is now talking about restructuring some of the tax issues that are there, eliminating overlaps in government services, cancelling the helicopters were all actions of which we can be very proud. They are actions which are going to bring us into a better financial situation. They are also actions that give the Canadian people something to believe in, something to say yes, this government is ready to move in a positive direction.

Integrity was very strong concern voiced by the people in my riding. I believe that we need a tremendous amount of parliamentary reform in order to bring about a better image of this Canadian Parliament. You do not change your image by promising things, you change your image by taking action. I believe that the appointment of an ethics counsellor to stop the open lobbying, or at least bring out in public the lobbying that is going on, is of major importance.

We also know that opening up debates here in this House, allowing MPs more input before the legislation is passed or presented in the House, gives MPs a much better say in what is going on.

We saw it in the peacekeeping debate and the cruise missile debate and in the future we are going to see a pre-budget debate giving MPs their opportunity to have their say before the issue is placed in a motion so that one does not have any opportunity to change it.

Committee structural change is also very important to this place. As I look upon things that have been brought about not only in the financial area but in the area of government operations and I look upon the challenges that this government faces in the future, just to wrap things up, I believe we are looking for consultation with the public, better opportunities for MPs to put their concerns forward and a much better representative government for the people of this country.

[Speech From The Throne, January 27th, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to my colleague who just finished a very excellent presentation. Certainly he tried to clarify the major concerns we hear about the GATT negotiations the minister has successfully worked on for the Canadian farm community.

What are my colleague's thoughts with regard to the difficult job the minister inherited coming into the GATT discussions, putting in tariff barriers and making sure that much of the agriculture production under supply management has a fair amount of protection? Does he feel that our supply management system will be pretty stable and in a very positive direction?

That is a question many people in agriculture have asked. Certainly the minister has responded in favourable ways. What are my colleague's thoughts in that area?

[Canada-Ontario Infrastructure Works Agreement, January 24th, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, today the Government of Canada has taken another step toward fulfilling its commitment to job creation.

Federal and provincial colleagues assembled in Toronto this morning to sign the Canada-Ontario infrastructure works agreement. This undertaking paves the way for Ontario residents to benefit from more than $720 million of federal funding to be matched by provincial and local authorities to build and upgrade our infrastructure services.

As a result of this initiative jobs will be created immediately. Roads, sewers, water mains and other services will be improved. It will enhance our economic growth and create jobs today and well into the future.

This government's commitment to jobs through programs like this one and upcoming strategies such as the youth corps apprenticeship initiative will act as a catalyst for the country's economic development.