John O'Reilly

[Youth Criminal Justice Act, March 22nd, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, I sit on a lot of committees with the member for Calgary Northeast. Ten plus twenty is thirty. The member is absolutely right. I am very glad he was able to work that out. That might have something to do with that stroke in intensity he was studying in Singapore. It takes a fair bit of time.

I go back to some of my personal experiences in court cases involving young offenders. It is a very serious thing to go into a prison to do a parole hearing. I appreciate that the simplistic approach applied by the Reform Party is well meaning. Some Reformers are very intelligent former Conservatives and Liberals. I know they cannot get elected out west except by running under Reform so I appreciate that they are doing that and I wish them well as long as it is not well in my riding.

I could talk about the young man who was hung by his heels at age 14 by his parents, who was sexually abused and beaten as a child, who was not taught values, who dropped out of school so he could run away and get away from everything. When he was arrested and incarcerated, he met people who deal with young offenders. They took him under their wing and taught him values he had not been taught before. He got away from his substance abuse and alcohol abuse. He got away from the abusive nature that surrounded him. Today he is a productive member of society.

I know that does not happen all the time and that the Reform Party does not want to talk about it, but the fact is the Young Offenders Act served a purpose that does not serve the purpose of Reform. Reformers cannot build unless they can teach everyone that everything is hate, hate, hate, punish, punish, punish.

The fact is that if we are to rehabilitate people, we do not do it by putting them in boot camps or by putting them in a caning camp or whatever the member wanted. We have to teach them values. We have to teach them the societal things expected of them. If young people are to be productive members of society, they have to be taught values. That simply is what changes people to be productive members of society and that protects society.

I was impressed with a criminal I met who was a musician. When money machines first came out and PINs had to be punched in which had a different tone to the pad, this man could stand behind someone making a withdrawal with their card and he could pick off their pin number because he had a musical ear. He could play any instrument. He was a very talented person. He would follow that person home, find an undetected way to break into their house and steal that card out of their wallet.

If the card is not in our wallets, we often think where did we leave it. We take a couple of days and think somebody else might have it, whatever. Just before midnight or just after 2 a.m. your bank account has been cleaned out by that person. The reason was not because he was a thief but because he was a heroin addict. How do we get a person like that into methadone treatment and let them put their talent to work in society? That same young man is now playing in a band and is very productive. These are a couple of examples the Reform Party cares to not notice.

When we talk about the Young Offenders Act and about rehabilitation, we talk about people who suddenly come into a society where values are taught and they offend only once. They do not become repeat offenders. Repeat offenders are a shame and there has to be a way to deal with them.

If we can save the majority of young offenders, which the Young Offenders Act did and which the Reform Party does not want to mention, we have done society a great justice. I believe Bill C-68 is a good start in changing the Young Offenders Act so we will have a youth criminal justice system that will stand the test of time.

[Youth Criminal Justice Act, March 22nd, 1999]

The happiest days of my life were the three years I spent in grade eight.

[Youth Criminal Justice Act, March 22nd, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, the person who was to share my time did not show up. I do not mind doing 20 minutes. I may have to actually start reading something, which would be quite a change for me because the member across tells me that I have to read a speech. I have never read one yet in here and so I do not think I will start now.

[Youth Criminal Justice Act, March 22nd, 1999]

No, I did not.

[Youth Criminal Justice Act, March 22nd, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, the new name of the riding is Haliburton—Victoria—Brock. It reflects the fact that there is only one Haliburton. There are three Victorias and many Brocks. The name change reflects that.

I am pleased to enter the debate on Bill C-68. I have not gotten over the last C-68 we had in here. I did not think I would ever want to get up and speak on anything that had anything to do with C-68.

In this case however, the people of Haliburton—Victoria—Brock had a direct say in the drafting of this bill. I was able to have some input into this bill and indirectly to the solicitor general's bill which we debated in Minden on October 4. That allowed for the Criminal Records Act to be changed so that people's names could be entered into a register, for example sexual predators and pedophiles in particular.

I listened to the member for Calgary Southwest, the Leader of the Opposition. He has a rather simplistic approach. He talks first about punishment and asks how society will be protected. He tries to transpose the idea into people's minds that the more people are punished, the more they will be rehabilitated. I find that kind of offensive.

To my credit, and sometimes I think to my detriment, I was a member of the society that looked after parole. As an officer in that role I came in contact with many police officers. I conducted a number of parole hearings just as the Young Offenders Act changes were coming in a few years ago. I saw repeat and repeat offenders at age 18 being brought back into the system as young offenders. They were teaching crime to young offenders who maybe would only have come into the system once and then would have been rehabilitated and reintegrated into society. Had they been taught values for the first time, they would have had a better chance in society.

That was a simplistic approach by the Leader of the Opposition, the member for Calgary Southwest. The member for Calgary Northeast wanted to study caning. He thought that caning people would somehow cure people from committing crimes. I do not know whether he was going to study the stroke or the intensity. He never did tell me what it was that turned his crank to want to do that. It seems Calgary has this thing about beating everybody into submission.

I have some examples as a parole officer. People 14 years old who have been beaten, hung by their heels, put down all their lives need help. They do not need another beating. Another beating will do totally nothing for them, except turn them further and further away from what they need to be rehabilitated in order to be constructive, contributing members of society.

That is what this bill tends to look at. It does not take a rocket scientist to see that the government can be blamed, everyone can be blamed, but blaming the system for someone murdering someone else is part of the problem. It is not all of the problem.

The fact that we will punish people who sign someone out of an institution and say they will take care of them is a good step. I do not think that should be taken lightly. A person who commits a crime and intends to commit another crime will not to be stopped by having their mother sign them out of the institution. If they are going to reoffend, they will reoffend.

We have to find a way to reach that person, to teach them values, to show them perhaps for the first time values. In studying some of the personal things, some of the parts of the Young Offenders Act that I was involved in, as a parent I went to court seven times. Two judges did not last through the proceedings. We came to our third judge before finally they talked about sentencing. Was it to be closed custody or open custody for the person who offended was what I was a witness for.

Look at the court system, which I tend to have the highest respect for even though I am not a lawyer. Being a real estate agent we just made all their money for them. I hear my lawyer friends getting upset about that. The fact is it is a good part of their practice. When they are able to delay and delay and to wait until the witness does not show up of whom they have a question to ask and the case is dismissed, I find that part has to be taken into account and has to be treated very seriously in the criminal justice system. It is something where police officers are continually asked to appear in court to be witnesses, which takes up valuable time they need to chase criminals. Instead of that they end up in court and in a situation where they are off the street. Many times they are dealing with people who have been through system many times. They know how the system works better than police officers, better than lawyers, better than judges and certainly better than the prosecutors.

Bill C-68 is not perfect. Anyone who thinks perfect law will be passed here which changes society will be disappointed. Everything has to be tested in the court system. When we test a law in the court system it is done by the experience of working it through, by having it exposed to the many people who become involved in that system to see how the legislation works.

Going back to my friend, the hon. solicitor general, when he brought in the publishing of the names of pedophiles, I think that was a very positive step in our criminal justice system. It allows institutions, boys and girls clubs, people who coach hockey, people who are involved in the youth system, to do background checks on people to find out if they have previous experience. Even if they have been pardoned it will show up in the system as they go from province to province. Changing their name is another problem that exists in the system. People change their names. They have a clean slate and they have been pardoned under another name. That legislation is good because it comes from the problems of community groups and how they want to interact with the youth justice system and with the criminal justice system.

Allowing an adult sentence for a youth of 14 who is convicted of an offence can result in a sentence of two years less a day. If a person is convicted provincially they can serve up to two years less a day for that crime. It puts an onus on people. If we take a person and put them into a value home, a value environment, a place where sometimes for the first time they would have some values, I think that is an important part of this bill.

Getting back to the simplistic approach by the members for Calgary Southwest and Calgary Northeast who have a punishment philosophy, let us take a look at the problem. If I were to write a parole paper and I put broken home, substance abuse, alcohol abuse, abused as a child, a grade eight education, a dropout, I would have about 90% of that catchment area that I work in.

What is missing? Is it punishment? Most of them fight their way into gangs. They do not get brought in because they have not been beaten or because they are going to beat someone. A lot of gangs are there. Peer pressure draws people into them. Taking them out and beating them for being beaten is not something that will instil any values in them.

We are talking about poor, underprivileged, abused people. The rest of the people who are caught in this will see the results of their actions. When they are taken away from that peer group they will interact with people because they know the difference between good and bad and evil.

[National Defence, February 19th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal ruled in 1989 that women must be fully integrated into the Canadian forces.

In light of the recent allegations concerning abuse of women, could the minister inform the House as to the progress the military has made in implementing the ruling of the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal?

[Division No. 316, February 15th, 1999]

Double dipping.

[Youth Employment, February 8th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, my question concerns the student summer job action program.

Can the Minister of Human Resources Development inform the House if this program will continue for 1999 and if so, can the minister tell our Canadian youth when they can apply for help in the summer job search?

[Petitions, December 7th, 1998]

Madam Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 36 I have a petition basically from the Lakehurst area calling on parliament to take action that would assure that Paul Bernardo remains in prison for the rest of his natural life, and that further action is requested for the destruction of the video tapes, that human eyes may never see them again.

[Philip Graham, December 3rd, 1998]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to congratulate the outstanding volunteer efforts of Mr. Philip Graham of Minden, which is located in my riding of Haliburton—Victoria—Brock.

Mr. Graham has volunteered his time for 50 years to weather reporting for Environment Canada. On the rare days he has not been able to record the weather readings, his wife Jane or a close friend has recorded the information.

Environment Canada has a network of nearly 2,000 volunteer weather watchers such as Mr. Graham who help keep an important historical record of weather conditions across the country. Few if any have been keeping an eye on the weather as long as Mr. Graham, a retired Ontario Hydro employee.

Congratulations, Philip, and thank you for your valued contribution to important historical information for Canada.