Joe Jordan

[Main Estimates, 2002-03, June 6th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, be that as it may, we are debating the estimates and the supply of the resources for the Privy Council Office to carry out its objectives as outlined in the estimates. That is what I was referring to.

[Main Estimates, 2002-03, June 6th, 2002]

Obviously I hit a nerve, Mr. Speaker.

These are not numbers that are adjusted for inflation. These are absolute numbers and what we have is a significant process of efficiency and effectiveness. It has taken us 10 years, unadjusted for inflation, to get anywhere near the expenditures that took place under the Mulroney government.

[Main Estimates, 2002-03, June 6th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, the member referred to an increase of a hundred and some million dollars.

For those Canadians who are not watching the hockey game, what we are doing here tonight is debating the full supply of the expenditures that were outlined in the estimates. This generally is a financial debate, but I must pay tribute to the Tories because they caught on very early that if they object to the PCO estimates, it is essentially carte blanche to debate whatever they want. Points of order on relevance will get nowhere because we are essentially talking about the umbrella and anything goes.

In terms of the cost, if we look at the cost of the Prime Minister's Office, in 1984-85 it was $7.3 million. If we look at the cost of the Prime Minister's Office in 1992-93 it was $6.7 million. They just happened to be years when there were Tory governments in place. From 1992-93 we have to go all the way up to 2001-02 before we get back to the amount that was spent in the PMO in the last year of the Mulroney government. We can debate whether ideologically this is what Canadians want us to spend money on, but as hon. members can we not at least acknowledge that what we are talking about is an organization that has exercised fiscal prudence?

[Main Estimates, 2002-03, June 6th, 2002]

Madam Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for the question. It gives me an opportunity to reiterate a critical point with respect to the first group of motions we are debating.

Government departments put forth their budgetary estimates on a three year planning horizon. These things are very public. They contain a tremendous amount of detail. The documents are very thick. Parliament gets them around February. They are looked at in committee where we essentially try to compare how much the departments spend each year. The hon. member is absolutely right. The key point is whether they asking for more money or less money.

I will reiterate what the increase would represent. It would be an $11.3 million increase. The hon. member is absolutely correct. Some $7.6 million of it would be for the Commission on the Future of Health Care in Canada, the Romanow Commission.

I will reiterate the point I made in my speech. I have held round tables in my riding as well as a large public meeting, as have other members of all parties. It is an extremely important exercise to be undertaking right now so I do not think one can argue the value of the $7.6 million increase.

An additional $3.1 million of the increase would be related to salary issues. This is something over which the administrative function within PCO has little control. Part of this is triggered by the salary increases we voted ourselves in here. Some of it has to do with the fact that the non-political people in PCO, the exempt staff, are given the same increases as unionized public service workers. It is not as if one can point to management and say it is frivolously driving up costs. It has absolutely no control over the costs. They are tied to other actions over which it has no direct control.

Some $2.6 million would be for the Task Force on Modernizing Human Resources Management in the Public Service. In government there tends to be a little lag with respect to information systems and the incorporation of new technologies. Government seems to move slower than the private sector in this regard. That is a good thing. Haste makes waste when one is making policy.

Virtually any successful company in the last 10 years has gone through a detailed period of self reflection where it has looked at how it is structured, how it manages its workforce and how it rewards its employees. Sometimes these things can get pretty strange but companies go through them.

The government is a huge employer. It has tremendous challenges in terms of finding, retaining, training, and motivating employees to do the good work they do. I do not think one can argue against giving it additional money to devote to that purpose provided the process of doing so is transparent and accountable and goes through the appropriate parliamentary committee and estimate process to determine whether it has worked or not.

Finally, $700,000 would be related to operational costs for the Policy Research Initiative annual conference. It is debatable, but I would argue that public policy is a field in itself. These kinds of conferences are a means of sharing best practices and dealing with how the challenges facing societies are addressed in public policy framework. I would be concerned, quite frankly, if our government was not investing in this type of information and these types of conferences.

The good news is that there is also a decrease. The $11.7 million is a net figure. There was $2.7 million less because of the sunsetting of one of the special initiatives undertaken by the Privy Council Office.

If we factor these figures in we have an organization that has essentially kept its costs in line. We have not seen extravagant increases in discretionary spending. A clear analysis of the data would demonstrate that in the last 10 years the Privy Council Office has kept its expenditures reasonable and under control.

When the Privy Council Office needs increases its members do not come and ask for a blank cheque. They do not walk through here with a wheelbarrow expecting us to throw money in it. The PCO has specifically outlined what the new expenditures are for. I challenge hon. members to identify which of them they would be willing to sacrifice on the altar of whatever fiscal policy they are advocating.

[Main Estimates, 2002-03, June 6th, 2002]

Madam Speaker, if the hon. member would take a look at the specific details of the estimates and recall the answer she got to that question in question period today, she would have her answer.

[Main Estimates, 2002-03, June 6th, 2002]

Madam Speaker, I am very pleased to speak this evening on the estimates for the Privy Council Office, the policy department that serves the Prime Minister and serves the cabinet.

Canada is well prepared to meet the opportunities and challenges in the years ahead. Our common values and sound economic fundamentals, strong communities and global outlook have served Canada well and provided a solid foundation for achieving success and a higher quality of life for all Canadians in the future.

Success will require that Canadians work together. Together we can build a world leading economy, driven by innovation, skills and international trade. We can create a stronger and more inclusive society where all Canadians have access to high quality health services and live in strong and safe communities, built upon shared values such as respect for diversity and individual rights and where the needs of aboriginal Canadians can be met. We can ensure a clean healthy environment for Canadians and promote Canada's interests and sense of citizenship throughout the world.

The Government of Canada will do its part to advance these objectives based on the values of Canadians by promoting partnerships and acting as prudent stewards of the nation's finances. The government remains committed to the modernization of the public service so that it continues its proud tradition of serving Canadians by providing quality service and quality advice.

To advance this ambitious agenda for Canada, the Prime Minister will continue to rely on the advice and support of the Privy Council Office.

The PCOs estimates for 2002-03 show a net increase of $11.3 million. This represents and 11.1% increase in the financial requirements from $101.3 million in 2001-02 to $112.6 million in 2002-03. The increase pertains to the following items. There is an increase of $7.6 million for the commission on the future of health care in Canada. I think any hon. member who has had any contact with this commission which is travelling across Canada to get opinions and advice on the health care system knows that $7.6 million is extremely well spent.

There is an increase of $3.1 million related to the salary issues, such as compensation for collective bargaining and employee benefit costs. There is an increase of $2.6 million for the task force on modernizing human resource management in the public service. There is an increase of $700,000 related to the operational costs for the policy research initiative annual conference.

These increases have been offset by a decrease of $2.7 million for the sunsetting of contributions to special initiatives for Metis and non-status Indians and the Forum of Federations.

The mission of the PCO is to serve Canada and Canadians by providing the best non-partisan advice and support to the Prime Minister and cabinet. To accomplish this mission, the PCO focuses on four key objectives or outcomes. They are first, ensuring the efficient operation and appropriate support of the central decision making mechanisms of the government; second, increasing capacity to identify, understand and address the longer term policy issues facing Canada and Canadians; third, addressing long term policy issues regarding health care in Canada; and finally, providing impartial assistance to first nations and Canada in the settlement of specific land claims.

Let me expand on these strategic outcomes. First, the efficient operation and appropriate support of central decision making mechanisms of the government is the core of the mandate of the Privy Council Office. The cost of this is estimated at $97 million annually.

The Privy Council Office is a unique organization in the government, in that serves as both the cabinet secretariat and the Prime Minister's source of advice on a broad range of policy and operational issues and matters relating to the management of the federation. In carrying out these duties, the PCO must take into account a wide variety of external factors and public policy considerations.

For example, the PCO must consider demographic changes including increased diversity, aging and urbanization. It must take into consideration the state of the economy which includes economic performance across the country, Canada's ability to adapt to a knowledge based economy and development of international trade opportunities in North America and the world.

It must also consider the values and priorities of Canadians, including those regarding health care and Canada's security requirements; the state of the federation and relations with other governments in Canada; Canada's evolving role and place in an ever changing geo-political context; and finally, social and economic issues of key groups in Canadian society, such as aboriginal people and official language communities.

The PCO must continually adjust to respond to a changing environment, while consistently providing accurate, sensitive and timely advice on key regional, national and international issues affecting the country. In doing so, the PCO works collaboratively with other departments and agencies, provincial and territorial governments, the private and voluntary sectors as well as international stakeholders.

Let me describe some of the key services provided by the PCO to deliver on this core element of PCO's mandate. It provides professional and non-partisan policy advice and appropriate support to the Prime Minister and to other ministers within the Prime Minister's portfolio. Specifically they include: the Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Finance and Minister of Infrastructure; the President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs; the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and the Leader of the Government in the Senate. It assures the efficient operation of the cabinet decision making process in accordance with the principles of responsible government, as well as the Prime Minister's prerogative.

In concrete terms, this means the PCO supports cabinet discussions of the government's agenda at regular meetings and through periodic cabinet planning sessions. It defines key objectives and priorities and oversees the development of policies consistent with the government's agenda. It facilitates discussions of proposed new initiatives or proposed program or policy changes discussed in the social and economic cabinet committees, as well as in the cabinet committee on government communications and at ad hoc and informal meetings of ministers.

In addition, the PCO oversees the preparation of departmental initiatives destined for policy approval at cabinet. This is done by ensuring that thorough analysis of proposals has been completed, that intergovernmental consultation has been carried out and that proposals advance the government's overall priorities.

The PCO also provides leadership, ensures policy coherence and facilitates interdepartmental and central agency co-ordination on: major policy, legal, legislative, machinery and regulatory issues; public service reform initiatives, including transition to a new human resource management system; public security and anti-terrorism initiatives, including improvements to the legislative framework and implementation of security measures contained in the 2001 budget; and improved border management with the United States through the implementation of the action plan for the smart border declaration.

In terms of corporate services, the PCO also provides a wide variety of supports to meet the diverse needs of the department and central agencies. These services include: access to accurate, relevant, integrated information for decision making; recruitment and retention of competent and representative employees; workplace support; technical infrastructure and information processing tools to enhance the decision making process and to facilitate the implementation of technological development and government-wide online services; modern management practices within the PCO in line with the government's modernization of comptrollership and human resources initiatives; a cost efficient system to manage the flow of correspondence Canadians send to their Prime Minister; and, security for the Prime Minister and the employees of the organization.

The second key objective of the PCO is to increase capacity to identify, understand and address the longer term policy issues facing Canada and Canadians. The cost of achieving this outcome is estimated at $5 million.

In the coming years the policy research initiative will continue to focus on two key priorities. It will accelerate research and conduct more indepth analysis in three specific areas: North American linkages, social cohesion and sustainable development. It will also integrate research findings into the policy process and strengthen the capacity of the policy community through programs such as the policy research development program and the policy research data group.

The third key objective of the PCO is to address long term policy issues regarding health care in Canada. This is estimated to cost $8 million and is the responsibility of the Commission on the Future of Health Care in Canada.

The commission's priorities are: first, to involve Canadian from all walks of life in public dialogue regarding the future of health care in Canada; second, to develop effective results oriented policies and measures to ensure the sustainability of a universally accessible, publicly funded health system in the country; and third, to submit a final report with recommendations on or about November 2002.

The fourth objective of PCO is the provision of impartial assistance to Canada's first nations in the settlement of specific land claims. The estimated cost is $6 million. Delivering this strategic outcome is the responsibility of the Indian Specific Claims Commission.

The commission's priorities are: first, to effectively respond to requests from the Government of Canada and first nations for high quality service and recommendations regarding specific land claims; second, to continue to provide impartiality both in the inquiry process and the ever growing number of mediation service requests; and third, to take a proactive approach to improving understanding among Canadians about specific claims issues.

The achievement of the outcomes I have described and the many services that support these key objectives are organized into the Privy Council Office Program's five business lines. These include: the Office of the Prime Minister's business line which is managed by the Prime Minister's chief of staff; the Minister's Office business line which consists of the four ministries I outlined earlier and in which each office is managed by the executive assistant to the minister; the Privy Council Office business line which constitutes the core component of the Privy Council Office Program and is managed by the Clerk of the Privy Council and Secretary to the Cabinet who reports directly to the Prime Minister; the Commissions of Inquiry, Task Forces and Others business line which consists of the Policy Research Initiative, the Commission on the Future of Health Care in Canada and the Indian Specific Claims Commission; and the Corporate Services business line which consists of administration, financial services, informatics and technical services, corporate information services, human resources, and access to information and privacy and is managed by the assistant deputy minister of corporate services.

The Privy Council Office is the public service department that provides policy advice and support to the Prime Minister. This in turn supports the functioning of the cabinet committee system and a range of other essential services for the government and Canadians.

[Supply, June 6th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the member who just spoke for the sincere advice he has given the government.

He talks about trust. He stood in essentially what is the highest court in the land and said the federal government contribution to health care is 14¢ on the dollar. I have heard that figure thrown around and I was concerned by it. If that is true, if it is 14¢ on the buck, then the federal government's authority in this area has certainly diminished. Then I looked at the facts.

He says that health care is supposed to be 50:50. I would suggest to him that it was never 50:50. There were things in the health care envelope like psychiatric health care, and we have a big psychiatric centre in my riding, that was never covered.

When he arrived at 14¢, and he is quoting Ralph Klein, that is taking only the cash portion. He is ignoring the tax points. I do not want to get into that and confuse the member, but I will tell the House that they are worth every bit as much as money. That is why the provinces are encouraging us to give them more tax points. He took the cash portion and applied it to the entire Canada health and social transfer envelope. The provinces spend 62% of that on health care, so we must apply that same percentage to that portion. When we do the math, it is probably around 36¢.

The member may argue that, but would he not admit that the 14¢ on the dollar figure is absolutely wrong and apologize to Canadians for standing up here and repeating that nonsense that is coming from Ralph Klein?

[Committees of the House, May 29th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I move that the 61st report of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs, presented to the House earlier this day, be concurred in.

(Motion agreed to)

[Committees of the House, May 29th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present the 60th report of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs regarding the membership of the legislative committee on Bill C-55, an act to amend certain acts of Canada and to enact measures for implementing the biological and toxin weapons convention, in order to enhance public safety.

I also have the honour to present the 61st report of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs regarding the membership of the Standing Committee on Transport. If the House gives its consent I intend to move concurrence in the 61st report later this day.

[Questions on the Order Paper, May 23rd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I ask that all questions be allowed to stand.