Pat O'Brien

[Supply, May 1st, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, first, I listened carefully to my colleague's comments. He noted that much of the trade that exists between Canada and the United States, and our number is $1.3 billion two-way trade a day across the border, existed before the FTA.

I remind my colleague that over the past 10 years export sales in goods and services, as a percentage of our GDP, has gone from 25% to 45%. That is a tremendous growth. There is no other way to put it than much of that is attributable to the FTA and to NAFTA. Some 90% of the 2.1 million jobs created in this country since we came to power in 1993 were directly related to our exports in goods and services.

The hon. member raised the subject of Ireland, which is pretty close to my heart, its subsidies and the good work they have done. I saw them firsthand and there is no question that is true. Canada has been a player in that, contributing significant money through the international fund of Ireland.

However does the member not understand that we cannot fairly compare and draw an analogy between the FTAA, which is in its infancy and really has not even been struck yet as we are only talking about it, and the EU which has been 40 years in its evolutionary stage.

Canada has a fund for development in the Americas that has been recently created by the Minister for International Cooperation. Is the member not aware of that fund? Is the member not aware of the concerns raised by President Fox and other leaders, and the steps that were taken in Quebec to create a fund for development in the Americas, exactly the same kind of ideas that he spoke about vis-à-vis Ireland? They have to have time to mature.

[Supply, May 1st, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I guess we are making a little progress. We found out that the NDP does believe in rules for investment. Of course the member, in answering the question, went on to Metalclad and so on. That was not the point of my question at all.

I was speaking not about maximizing profits but about protecting the life savings of people through a proper series of investment rules that are very important here in Canada and abroad.

The hon. member asked earlier how we can call the summit democratic. Very simply, we had 34 democratically elected leaders who were there of their own volition to participate in it. We had a parallel summit of citizens funded in large part by the federal government. There were extensive consultations and hearings at the standing committee and by the minister. There were a number of opportunities for Canadians to be involved.

My question for the hon. member is simply this. How can he and his party ignore comments like those of UN secretary general Kofi Annan who has said that the best thing we can do, including the NDP, for the very people we all seek to help, the less fortunate peoples, is to globalize and liberalize trade. How can NDP members ignore the comments of such an outstanding world leader?

[Supply, May 1st, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, first of all I would like to address the member's comments about the police. I had the privilege of being in Quebec City and of meeting some of the delegations from the other countries as well as talking to some of the peaceful protesters, which I agree made up the vast majority of people. However, my view of it is that the police showed tremendous restraint in the face of incredible provocation and violence by a small but determined minority. That seems to be the view of most objective observers of that particular weekend.

I would like to ask the member two specific questions about investment. We know that teachers' pension funds, labour pension funds and nurses' funds are some of the very largest funds in Canada. In fact, in my former life I was a teacher in Ontario, and the Ontario teachers' pension fund is one of the very largest in North America. As well, 50% of Canadians own mutual funds as a portion of their retirement savings.

Would the member share with us his view and the view of his party? Should we or should we not have rules to protect Canadian investments abroad? Would the NDP as a party be willing to rescind the rules that protect the savings of those Canadians such as those I just mentioned whose lifetime savings are tied up in these funds?

[Supply, May 1st, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his kind remarks to me and to the minister. As he knows I certainly will share those comments with the minister. I think a lot of good and important work was done in achieving a democracy clause at Quebec City. I am pleased to see he is very supportive of that.

The member talks about, and rightly so, the Liberal Party changing its view after the 1988 election won by his party. We certainly did change our view as a party. The facts speak for themselves in terms of the enormous benefits of free trade. There is no denying it, other than it seems the NDP is determined to deny those facts. The reality is the facts speak for themselves on just how positive it has been for Canada.

As a student and teacher of history I want to help the member out a little on the respective positions of our two parties. He will recall that Sir John A. Macdonald was the champion of protectionism. At that time the continentalist party was traditionally the Liberal Party. It was only in the latter part of the 20th century with the Mulroney government that the Conservatives started to move more toward a free trade party.

With all due respect to my colleague, a reading of Canadian history will show the traditional economic position of our two parties. The Liberal Party has been far more the continentalist party traditionally while his party, starting with our first prime minister, was a party of national policy built on protectionism. High tariffs was one of the fundamental tenets of that protectionist national policy. That sets the record straight for the many viewers out there.

I will ask my colleague a question on investment. We very much intend to table our position on investment, but it simply is not ready for that now. Does the member not agree that it is important we consult widely with Canadians?

I spoke about this point recently with the chamber of commerce in my riding of London—Fanshawe. Those business people and other Canadians very much want to be consulted on what our policy would be. Those consultations are under way now. Does the member not think it is important to finish that consultation extensively rather than rush into the House and into a premature release of our position on investment?

[Supply, May 1st, 2001]

Madam Speaker, I listened very carefully to my colleague's comments.

In the debate, and in the time I have been parliamentary secretary and he has been critic, I found his comments for the most part to be quite constructive. However he cited an inconsistency in the government's position. I will cite what I think the inconsistency was and ask him to comment.

First, the hon. member made the point that the Prime Minister said the chapter 11 clause was good. Then a little later in his comments he was more accurate when he quoted the Prime Minister as saying he was reasonably satisfied with how the chapter 11 clause was working, given the totality of our trade relationship in NAFTA and the $1.3 billion of trade done daily back and forth across the border with the United States.

The second part was a more accurate reflection of what I recall the Prime Minister saying.

The hon. member talked about the comments of the Minister for International Trade and that he was not interested in any kind of an investor clause. That is what the motion says. Surely the hon. member recalls the minister repeatedly saying inside and outside the House that what was needed was not to scrap the clause or reopen it but to clarify it, that yes, the scope of the original signers of the deal needed to be clarified and that should be a priority.

What is the hon. member's position and that of his party on the protection of investment? Does he feel there needs to be some rules to protect foreign investment in Canada and also Canadian investment overseas? Does he not see that is required or does he subscribe to the silly notion that we should somehow scrap this altogether? I would appreciate his views on those points.

[Supply, May 1st, 2001]

Madam Speaker, yes it does, because I do not agree that there is a surplus of democracy. This whole process has been about democratizing the situation.

Does the leader of the NDP not remember that prior to liberalized, globalized free trade there was a dictator in Mexico and that about 20 of those countries had dictators? Does she not get it that this is a move toward democracy?

[Supply, May 1st, 2001]

Madam Speaker, here we go again. There is other consultation possible than just that in Quebec City, whether it was inside the summit or at the people's summit. The leader does not need to lecture me on that. I very recently met with a group of aboriginal people from Colombia in my office on Parliament Hill. They expressed some of their concerns. We are consulting very widely. Unlike the NDP, we do not just consult with those who agree with us.

The leader said that I had mentioned that Mr. Blair was in favour of free trade no matter what it looks like. That is exactly what the leader attributed to me. That is absolutely and completely inaccurate. I said no such thing. I challenge her to find that in Hansard .

I simply said that Mr. Blair indicated that the critics of free trade, including the leader of the NDP, however well intentioned, cannot be allowed to stand in the way of the economic reality that globalized, liberalized free trade is very important. Small countries such as those of the Americas need investments. Their leaders get that if the NDP leader does not. Firms need rules in order to invest. Everybody understands that but the NDP.

The former Ontario premier, NDP premier Bob Rae, said it comes to this: the critics of globalized trade want to abolish capitalism. They have lost that argument. Those are arguments on the scrap heap of history.

[Supply, May 1st, 2001]

Madam Speaker, I am coming to the member's question. I think that is showing respect. However hollering will not get an answer. The member wanted to holler and I ask your indulgence to allow me to answer the question.

Mr. Annan's point is very clear. If we are to tackle the problems the hon. member addressed in his question, real problems of poverty and inequity in many countries of the Americas, the government must have the economic wherewithal to do so. That is achieved through globalized, liberalized trade.

The member can shake his head. However I will listen more carefully to the views of Mr. Blair and Mr. Annan because frankly, and with all due respect, they are more in touch with reality than the hon. member.

[Supply, May 1st, 2001]

Madam Speaker, it is the NDP way to holler down things it does not want to hear. However the reality is, and I was coming to the member's question—

[Supply, May 1st, 2001]

Madam Speaker, the member asked me a question and now he wants to holler. That is the NDP way.