Mr. Speaker, I have been sitting here listening for the last couple of hours to three years of my life being bandied about.
The member opposite who introduced this motion and who I respect greatly knows that I spent two years as chair of the committee, in 1996-97, and that I just spent the last year chairing it. Despite what members think, the easiest thing in the world for me would be to vote to make everything votable, tomorrow, tonight, whenever we vote on it, because it would get rid of a very tough job that I am forced to do.
However, I honestly have not made up my mind how I will vote because I do not believe it will help the private members' process to make everything votable. I sincerely believe it will diminish the process. It will make it partisan. It will make it irrelevant. I have to learn to get over that.
Mr. Speaker, excuse me, but I forgot to say that I will be splitting my time with the member for Mississauga South.
The process has developed and improved since the 1980s. Several people have referred to the McGrath report. We brought in modifications in 1997-98. Although the party opposite takes credit for slipping that through the House, some of those modifications sprung full blown from my head, one of which was voting from the back rows down because it took the obligation away from the back rows of both sides of the House to follow the front rows.
We streamlined the criteria so that members can bring in private members' bills that do focus on one province or one area. Before it was not allowed. We brought in and tested the one hundred signature rule because people were very frustrated with the lottery. We brought in another one that no one has referred to all day, which is an obligation for a committee to report back within six months so an item could not be deep-sixed at a committee. Otherwise it is deemed brought back in its entirety.
We have made amazing progress and I would like to take some credit for that. That is why I am not sure. It is like the old adage “Be careful what you ask for because you might get it”. We may find out that it is not what we really wanted.
In regard to the lottery, I think we will be dropping it because of the confusion. People do not realize when they sign in the hundred signature rule whether they are supporting the concept of the bill or signing to get it to go through without the lottery or signing it because they think an item should be votable. We have had some confusion on that, as members know.
The criteria, as I mentioned, have been diminished. They are down to five simple criteria, one of them an improvement that says if the member is from out west the member can bring in an issue that is strictly for the west and the member's item will not be thrown out because it does not apply to the whole country.
I have a concern that a lot of the private members' bills we see now are reruns of government bills that passed through the House. Gun control has come up many times in the lottery. I do not know how many times the House could take another run at a bill like that. We would be opening ourselves to a lot of that.
Members would need to filter the bills no matter what is decided. If the House decides that they should all be votable, they will still have to be looked at using some criteria that we have talked about.
The idea of making everything votable has been the subject of two surveys, one in 1998 and one in 2001. What has been consistent in those surveys is that people are disaffected. People do not like the system. In 1998, 71% were unhappy with the system. This year 77% are unhappy. In 1998, 48% wanted everything votable and this time we have 62%.
However, I think it is also important to note that only 109 people out of 301 responded from the House. Seventy-five of those people have tabled bills. Fifty-six have had them drawn and 36 have had them made votable. I do not know where the statistics I have been hearing bandied about came from, but fully 33% of those bills have been votable, which is exactly what we were asked to do.
Only two-thirds, two or maybe three bills before 1993, ever became law in this country. One was the Prime Minister's, which named Air Canada. Another in 1993 was my opponent's, whose bill banning hookah pipes was passed, which I am sure has had a devastating effect on the country.
We have had a dozen passed and made into law since 1993. So despite the bleating to the contrary that the Liberal government has been restricting democracy, I think we have done very well.
If I sound like I am taking this personally, I am. I have spent a lot of time on this.
I think members will be very concerned when they see that with the 312 hours allocated we could get 104 bills and motions through in three and a half to four years. How would members choose those bills? We would have to go back to the nasty old lottery. The opportunity for whipped votes would increase because there is far too much for people to pay attention to in the House. If everything is made votable, I think the adage after a while will be “if it is proposed by the opposition we will vote against it”.
It would reduce the significance of the bills because anything could get through. As for the ones that do get through now in this nasty process that has been described, everybody pays attention to them because they have already come through one hurdle.
Many members choose to introduce motions and bills, as the member for Mississauga South mentioned. They never make it into votability, but the concept gets introduced. Somebody pays attention to it. Even though it was not votable it got an hour in the House and sometimes the government pays attention to a good idea even if it was not votable.
I am very concerned that we would get into the old U.S. style system whereby paid lobbyists and huge corporations will be forcing members to put bills into the House as their private members' bills with threats or with the rewards offered by companies that have a lot of money. I think we can see that happening in the States.
As I mentioned members would need a screening process, because I cannot understand after living this for three out of the last seven and a half to eight years how it would be done.
Some members would also have an obligation to put bills forward which would reflect small, noisy, highly skilled lobby groups in their ridings. Members might not agree with them. Members can see that when they put in petitions. Some of the petitions members put in they agree with. Some petitions members have hard time putting in, but it has to be done. Members might also be subjected to intense lobbying by single issue groups in the ridings that say they know there is one bill that is votable and they have one they want put in.
Despite the fact we have been royally dissed today, I would like to thank everybody who has served on the committee. It is not an easy task. I actually had one of my own members of my own government kick my door and leave marks all over it because he was angry that we did not make his bill votable and he thought I had something to do with it.
It is a tough job. I compliment the members of the opposition because it is not always unanimous, but it is by consensus, and it is based on criteria and, yes, it is subjective. However, I think we function well and I am very proud of everybody who sits on that committee.
According to the process already ongoing, we have a survey and the results. We have the Kilger committee looking at parliamentary reform. I really believe the motion itself is redundant because it asks that all private members' bills be made votable, and we have heard from the government side that it is ready to do that.
In summary, I care very much about private members' business. That is why I have been cautious since we started the review in 1997. If I did not care about it I would say that we should just let it go because it does not matter. I am very concerned that members will get a package that they do not really understand. They will not know what happened to them. They will not understand how difficult it will be to fight off the lobbyists, the heavy groups in their ridings that will try to force them to do this or that and stand up in the House of Commons and sometimes fight for things they do not understand or believe in.
I really believe each bill will become less and less important as more bills are introduced without any screening process.
