Jocelyne Girard-Bujold

[Highway Infrastructure, March 22nd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, in a short while, I will be taking to the Prime Minister's office over 3,000 postcards from inhabitants of the Saguenay region, who are demanding that the federal government hand over the money promised for highway 175 before March 31, 2002.

Before and during the last election campaign, the Liberals promised $3.5 billion for roads in Quebec. The money now available is nothing like what was promised barely a year ago.

March 31 will mark the end of the fiscal year for the government, and its surplus is estimated at close to $10 billion. According to the usual budget provisions, this money will go completely toward debt repayment.

Those who sent in these postcards are demanding that the Prime Minister free up the money promised from this surplus so that his government can ratify the five memorandums of understanding for highways 175, 185, 30, 35 and 50 immediately.

The Prime Minister should open the till, because a promise is a promise.

[Species at Risk Act, March 21st, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak today on Bill C-5, an act respecting the protection of wildlife species at risk in Canada.

I would like to add my voice to that of my colleague from the Canadian Alliance, the member for Lethbridge, about how little this government respects what goes on in committees.

I was on the Standing Committee on the Environment along with my colleague from Lethbridge when Bill C-33, the precursor of Bill C-5, was examined. We heard dozens of witnesses in connection with Bill C-33, the one that preceded Bill C-5.

As my colleague from Lethbridge has said, the position taken by most of these was diametrically opposite to that taken by the government in this bill. I believe that the government just sloughs off any presentations by witnesses who come before a committee to offer their opinion on a bill.

This government operates with a kind of magical thinking. It applies a semblance of democracy by inviting people before the committee. “We will listen to you”, it tells them. “We will ensure you are given a careful hearing. We will let you provide us with some improvements to the bills”.

However, the witnesses and opposition parties are just being taken in, every time, by this government. Never, since I was first elected in 1997, have I seen any open-mindedness on the part of the government with respect to bills. They deserve to be approached with an open mind. Let us not lose sight of the extreme importance of protecting species at risk.

Neither us nor the government alone possess the whole truth. People in the field are well aware of situations we are not. This is perfectly normal. Everyone is an expert in their own area of knowledge.

The government hears the witnesses but does not listen to them. It continues along the path it has already chosen, and heads straight for third reading. It keeps on introducing repetitive bills which mean that there is never any progress made with an issue. This species at risk bill is once again a duplication of effort with the provinces.

In 1996, the federal government proposed a Canada-wide agreement to the provincial and territorial environment ministers, the Accord for the Protection of Species at Risk. My colleague for Argenteuil--Papineau--Mirabel referred to it earlier. So there has been an agreement since 1996.

Why did they not bring together all the environment ministers and tell them “Together, we have made some progress. Why should we not sit down together again and make more progress with this issue?” What do they do instead? They deny their own agreement with the provinces and draft a bill that is contrary to many areas of provincial jurisdiction. What will the result be? It will cost dearly, very dearly. Once again, there will be duplication. It will end up in squabbles and this does solve the problems.

What is more, they have the gall not to want to use the COSEWIC list. I would like to explain to our viewers just what COSEWIC is. It is a body that was created in 1978 and is composed of representatives of each governmental agency in the provinces and territories, along with four national conservation bodies. It is the main player as far as species protection is concerned, and its mandate is to list the endangered species on Canadian territory.

These are the experts. I am not an expert, but I can recognize those who are. They have drawn up a list of 340 species that are endangered at the present time. These are credible people. They have been around since 1978 and are doing a good job.

What is the government saying? It says “We are setting aside the work that you have done since 1978. The governor in council, cabinet will draw up the priority list to protect species at risk”.

This is ridiculous. It is nonsense. A minister or cabinet does not know which species are the most at risk and require immediate protection on the territory. This is not true. I hope members do not believe that. I am sure that our viewers do not believe it either.

Let us be serious. If we want to move ahead on this issue, because it is urgent to do so, we must sit down with the experts. I do not trust people who claim to be perfect. I am afraid they might engage in petty politics. This is no time to engage in petty politics. But maybe they want visibility. Perhaps this government is bent on getting visibility at all costs. No, the government must not seek visibility here: it must act.

It is time for the federal government to co-operate with the provinces, to sit down with their officials, to say that it will continue to settle the issues that have surfaced since the 1996 accord. But this is not what the government is doing, and it is unfortunate. There is still time to propose amendments to that effect, but the government is so dense, so uninterested in settling issues that it creates new ones to get more visibility.

This is an extremely important area. It is said that biodiversity is the result of the earth's evolution over a period of more than 4.5 billion years. This evolutionary process has generated a large selection of living organisms and natural environments on our planet. This is the reality.

I think that the provinces would have wanted to continue, with the federal government, to try to improve the 1996 accord. However, the federal government has decided once again to stand out, to get more visibility and to reinvent the wheel. This government is always reinventing the wheel and, in the end, it only causes trouble. This is no time to cause trouble. It is time to act and to make progress. I deplore this attitude.

There have been three bills: Bill C-65, Bill C-33, during a previous parliament, which died on the order paper, and this one. Therefore, I ask the government to withdraw its bill and to sit down again with the provinces to update the 1996 accord.

[Highway Infrastructure, March 19th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I challenge the Minister of Transport to tell us whether Bill C-49 contained any reference to the highways I mentioned earlier.

March 31 is 12 days away. Not only did the government make all sorts of election promises with respect to Quebec's highway system, but it promised $2 billion in its budget for infrastructure.

What does it intend to do between now and March 31? Will it use these 12 days to hand over this money in order to keep its promises, which everyone, including the government of Quebec, is waiting for it to do?

[Highway Infrastructure, March 19th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, recently, the Minister of Finance told the House that Quebec could count on funding other than that allocated to the Strategic Infrastructure Fund for the highway construction promised by the Liberals before and during the last election campaign.

Knowing the five priorities of the government of Quebec, those being highways 175, 30, 50, 185 and 35, will the Deputy Prime Minister tell us whether, with the money in the fund and the other amounts mentioned by the Minister of Finance on Wednesday, he intends to invest in these five projects? If not, which highways will be his priorities?

[Supply, March 18th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I wish to congratulate my colleague on her speech. I listened with great interest. What she said is true. It is true that there is an imbalance. The needs are in the provinces and the money is in the federal coffers.

In addition to what my colleague said, how should the government acknowledge this imbalance? How should it return the money to the provinces? Does she agree that it should not create any programs but those requested by the provinces and rather give the money back to the provinces?

[Supply, March 18th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I am quite happy that the member of the Canadian Alliance has asked that question. However I believe he has not read the Séguin report. I will send him a copy of the English translation so he can read it. I am sure he will find it very interesting.

He is talking about one thing and we are talking about about another. It is a credible study carried out by credible people. Moreover, the finance ministers of all provinces, as well as other credible people, said there was a fiscal imbalance in Canada.

Therefore I cannot answer his question. I do not know what he is talking about. However I will send him a copy of the Séguin commission report.

[Supply, March 18th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I am always pleased to answer to the hon. member for Chicoutimi--Le Fjord. We both come both from the same region, the most beautiful one: the Saguenay. The new city of Saguenay was created on February 16. I am proud to say this will be the name of the new city.

Even his former colleague, now the opposition leader in the national assembly, has said so. He said that the Séguin commission was right, and he acknowledged the existence of a fiscal imbalance in Canada. Canada was grabbing too much money while providing no direct services to the people. His former colleague and leader of the Quebec Liberal Party confirms what the Séguin commission said and what we, in the Bloc Quebecois, are saying.

As for Mr. Moussaly's report, I have no idea where he got his data. He is the only one in Quebec saying that. However, Mr. Séguin is not the only one saying it and he is a former Liberal minister. I do not think that he has become a sovereignist. He agreed to do a job and he said, “Now, in 2002, we must get the facts straight about what is happening in Canada”. It is not only Quebec that is suffering because of this imbalance. All the other provinces are as well.

Mr. Séguin is not a member of the PQ nor of the BQ. He is someone who carried out a credible study and listened to witnesses. The commission sat down and listened to the people. People testified and said, “Yes, there is a fiscal imbalance.” The federal Liberals are the only ones to deny it. All the provinces say there is such an imbalance.

They are going to have to admit it. The finance minister will have to talk about it at the next finance ministers' meeting. That is all we want.

[Supply, March 18th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise to speak to the Bloc Quebecois motion, which states:

That this House acknowledge the existence of a fiscal imbalance jeopardizing the continued quality of social programs, such as health care and education, in Quebec and in the other provinces.

We all know that the Séguin commission, which was asked to consider and investigate the causes of the fiscal imbalance in Canada, as well as possible solutions to that problem, tabled its report a few days ago.

It is sad to have to ask the federal government to acknowledge the existence of a fiscal imbalance in the country. We have to ask the Liberals to recognize a fact recognized by 64% of all Canadians and 74% of Quebecers, as well as all the political parties in Quebec, namely that the money is in Ottawa while the needs are in the provinces. Again, I find it sad that we have to spend a day of debate on something that is so obvious to everybody except the Minister of Finance, his parliamentary secretary, and the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, who deny this situation.

Even his former university colleague, the MNA for Chapleau, Mr. Benoît Pelletier, went as far as asking the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs to stop denying that reality for he was sinking into ridicule. Those words were not mine, they were from his colleague in the Quebec Liberal Party.

Here are some other quotations. Bernard Landry said “The Séguin report gives an absolute, clear and easy to understand proof that Quebec, like other provinces, is being suffocated by the Government of Canada.”

Jean Charest, the current leader of the opposition in Quebec, said “There is clearly a fiscal imbalance.”

Mario Dumont, the ADQ leader, said “Now, even before thinking of decentralizing the federation, it is imperative to point out the major fiscal imbalance between Quebec City and Ottawa.”

What are the causes of the fiscal imbalance? The three main causes are: first, the imbalance between expenditures and access to revenue sources; second, the inadequate federal transfers; third, the federal spending power.

It is very simple, the federal government is piling up revenues largely exceeding its expenditures. As an example, in 2000-01, its revenues exceeded its expenditures by $59 billion. That shows that this government is increasingly bulimic, as pointed out by my hon. colleague for Charlesbourg--Jacques-Cartier.

Moreover, as soon as they came to power, the Liberals started to cut unilaterally into the health and social transfers to provinces. In summary, the federal transfers account for a decreasing share of the revenue of the Quebec government from the early 1980s on.

In 2000-01, that share was only 16% of Quebec's revenues, compared to 28% in 1983-84. That is a 12% revenue shortfall.

What are the impacts of the fiscal imbalance? The Bloc Quebecois has identified five major impacts. Essentially, taxpayer dollars stay in Ottawa, while the needs are in Quebec and the other provinces. That jeopardizes the health and education systems. People's needs are not well covered. Services delivery is not as efficient as it should be. The autonomy of Quebec and the other provinces in terms of decision-making and budgeting is compromised.

With its staggering surplus, the federal government is restricting the provinces' flexibility. Quebec, for example, will no longer be able to provide quality health care because its fiscal balance will be very precarious, according to the Séguin commission.

The impact on the regions of Quebec results directly from the other factors I just mentioned, which will have an exponential negative effect on the survival of the regions and their balance.

Moreover, it is clear that the impact on the development of Quebec's regions will be terrible in the years to come.

Representing as it does 25% of the total population of Canada, Quebec should normally be able to benefit from transfer payments in keeping with its demographic weight. This is, alas, far from the reality. At present, there is an under-representation of what are termed “structuring” expenditures, such as the purchase of goods and services, investments and grants to businesses.

Based on our estimates, Quebec receives $3.5 billion less than its demographic weight entitles it to, which allows us to state that this deficit might at least partly explain the historical gap between the unemployment levels in Quebec and in Canada.

If we refer to the Institut de la statistique du Québec, for every $100 million in expenditures by the central government, some 920 direct jobs and 381 indirect jobs are created.

If this $3.5 billion shortfall were done away with, Quebec could hope to see 45,500 jobs created. This amount represents one third of the jobs in Saguenay--Lac-St. Jean. It represents a 1.4% increase in the activity rate for Quebec and close to 1% decrease in the unemployment rate.

Inevitably, the consequences of fiscal imbalance are extremely harmful for the regions of Quebec. In addition to the federal cutbacks in health, education and social services, the $3.5 billion shortfall in structuring expenditures has a very negative impact on the economy of Quebec and the regions.

This is also the case for capital investments in the various regions of Quebec. In light of these figures, it seems obvious that the regions of Quebec are being abandoned by the central government and that they get back but a tiny portion of the taxes they send to the federal capital.

Let us talk about the Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean region alone. In 1998, taxpayers in my region sent $508,464,000 to Ottawa in personal income taxes. In terms of capital expenditures, the federal government spent $763,000 in my region in 1999, which is less than one half of 1%, even though we account for 3.9% of Quebec's population.

Since 1993, the Government of Canada has slashed transfers to the provinces. In Quebec, cuts in health transfers alone totalled $1 billion. For my region, this represents a $38 million shortfall since 1993, which is equivalent to the total budget of the Centre hospitalier de Jonquière.

It means fewer nurses, fewer doctors, less equipment and fewer direct services to the public. It has become increasingly difficult to get medical care quickly. Waiting lists for surgery keep getting longer. This is the direct result of what is happening now. People have no choice but to go to the United States to get medical care.

We are not asking the federal government to give us the moon. We are merely asking that it recognize that there is an imbalance, that the needs are in the provinces and that it is taking too much money from these same provinces. We are merely asking that it give back to the provinces what is rightfully theirs and stop denying the fact that a fiscal imbalance does exist. Everybody else agrees on that.

[Supply, March 14th, 2002]

Madam Speaker, I am surprised at the parliamentary secretary's comments. I think that he did not understand. I think that he did not get the interpretation. I never said such a thing. I said that I hope they he will not only talk about golf, fishing and hunting. I hope that he will talk about softwood lumber. I hope that he will say that all parliamentarians from the House of Commons are behind him. I want to provide some wind for his sails. I hope that the parliamentary secretary will listen to what I said and that he will understand.

I want to provide the Prime Minister of Canada and the Minister of International Trade with some additional steam. Sometimes when we get close to the finish line, we run out of steam. I would like to give them that final push so that they can cross the finish line and settle this. I hope that the parliamentary secretary will do the same thing.

[Supply, March 14th, 2002]

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague, the hon. member for Lévis-et-Chutes-de-la-Chaudière. Truly, this is harmful to our regions.

Earlier, I referred to statistics. In Quebec regions alone, the softwood lumber industry represents 35,000 direct jobs in plants and in the bush. Thanks to this industry and the jobs it creates, $4 billion is injected into regional economies. This shows how urgent the issue is. This government must take the remote regions of Quebec into consideration, because their survival is at stake.

We talk about the exodus of young people, but sawmills and plants now offer high tech job opportunities. This industry is offering high tech jobs in the regions. However, because of what is going on right now, there are layoffs, and young people are deciding to leave their villages to seek job opportunities in the cities, because they cannot afford to live without income. This is especially true during the so-called spring gap, when they go without any income for several weeks. So, we see that this is part of the mechanism that has to be developed for the benefit of our regions.

Moreover, the International Trade Minister did not look convincing yesterday. Neither did the Prime Minister, who, I thought, showed weakness. He did not show any determination to address and solve the problem. This is why I say that the members of parliament who will rise today will say that they are ready to give their full support to the government, because they want it to deal with the issue and find a solution.

So, I hope that will help the Prime Minister and the International Trade Minister find the energy they lack and finally show their determination to solve the problem.