Dave Chatters

[Kyoto Protocol, December 2nd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I have a couple of comments and a question for the member. I must express my disappointment at the way the member shoots barbs about intellectual capacity at anybody who does not agree with her position or her party's position on Kyoto.

The whole issue of Kyoto is a scientific hypothesis and it does not diminish anyone's mental ability anymore to oppose the science than it does those who support it. Certainly if we are going to have a contest reading each other's constituents' letters into the record I can assure her that I have thousands I could read opposing it, but I do not see the purpose of that. Certainly one with such great mental capacity should be able to make a speech around the issue of Kyoto without reading a whole bunch of letters.

If the Liberal Party and the Liberal government are so concerned about the environment and the future of our children, why did the environmental watchdog, that the government appointed, when she released her report just recently after looking at some 200 environmental agreements that the government had signed over the last 10 years and auditing some 35 of them, give the government an absolute failing grade on all of those reports and agreements that it signed? If it cares so much about the environment, why is it not living up to the agreements it has already signed?

[Kyoto Protocol, December 2nd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, there are a couple of points I would like the hon. member to respond to.

I may be a bit of a slow thinker, but the hon. member for Davenport in the question and comment period could not understand why we could not understand that if the summers are that much hotter and there is such a great demand for electricity to run our air conditioners, that creates more smog. On the surface, one would have to think that was a logical conclusion, but then one would also have to conclude that if the temperature has risen to the degree that it is going to make that much difference to the smog conditions in Toronto, then in the winter, because it is so much warmer, we would not have to run our furnaces nearly as much. Therefore we would have much less CO

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produced in the winter which would perhaps more than offset using the air conditioners in the summer.

Maybe the hon. member for Davenport should run his scenario through to its conclusion. Perhaps the member could comment on that.

Also the hon. member for Davenport and other members on the Liberal side in the last few days in this debate, when they can no longer argue their case on the science or the economics, they fall back to the position that Canada as a member of the world community has a responsibility to set an example as a leading nation in the world. There is some question as to whether or not Canada is a leading nation anymore, but if it is, then we have a moral responsibility to lead by example for the rest of the world and sign this accord whether or not our CO

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emissions are significant in terms of world emissions.

I would ask you to comment a bit on how you see our responsibility as a member of the world community.

[Kyoto Protocol, December 2nd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I have always admired the previous speaker's dedication to the environment, but I am disturbed by his distortion of not only our position but the positions of many others.

It seems strange to me that any scientists supporting the Kyoto accord are valid no matter where they come from and no matter what they say, even if for whatever reason the scientists on the IPCC completely distorted the conclusion of the scientific study.

The study said that science could not conclude that man had any discernible effect on climate on this globe and yet, in the member's view, any scientist who speaks against the science of Kyoto is somehow a bag man for the oil industry and does not speak the truth. Some 17,000 scientists signed the Oregon petition saying the science of Kyoto was not valid and should not be followed to the economic disaster where we seem to be heading.

This member continually takes that position. He takes the position that the Canadian Alliance wants to sit and do nothing, and burn in hell because the climate is getting hot and causing disruption around the world. It has never been our party's position to do nothing.

When U.S. politicians looked at the issue through joint congressional and senate hearings they decided that was not the way to go and they would take action outside the Kyoto accord. Many states in the United States will exceed the Kyoto targets without being part of the Kyoto accord.

Why could we as a country not proceed and achieve all of these things without being wrapped into the Kyoto accord, facing timelines and targets that the Kyoto accord imposes on us which, in my view, we cannot possibly meet?

[Kyoto Protocol, December 2nd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, the member spoke about a number of green projects in her riding that are admirable projects. However, anyone can take $9.2 million of taxpayer money and do a project on greening the environment and coming up with greener small engines.

If this thing is going to work, everyone has to do it without $9.2 million of federal money. In other words, what is going on in everyone's riding voluntarily. Who will pay for the retrofitting of thousands of homes and thousands of commercial buildings that will have to be done to meet our Kyoto commitment?

[Kyoto Protocol, December 2nd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, that was an interesting presentation but a somewhat distorted view of our national economy perhaps.

The member suggested that if Quebec were independent it would have ratified and implemented the Kyoto accord some years ago because it has done all its work and has no more work to do. I find that to be an amazing statement considering that Quebec to my knowledge has not done any more than any of the other provinces. Certainly Quebec is blessed with abundant hydro electric power, a green source of power, an emission free source of power, but that does not exempt it from the responsibility of reducing its emissions to 30% or 20-some per cent below 1990 levels just as everyone else in Canada does.

I find the member's disregard for the rest of the Canadian provinces amazing, and it is just because Quebec was blessed with abundant hydro electric power. The west was blessed with abundant energy resources, fossil fuel resources, but because of that blessing Alberta sends $9 billion a year to Ottawa, a good part of which ends up in Quebec because of the transfer payments.

I suggest it is time for Quebec, if it is so wealthy in resources, to start supporting the federation similarly.

[Kyoto Protocol, December 2nd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I am delighted to see finally some sanity in that vast Liberal caucus over there with the member's memorable speech. Given the member's speech and his position and how he feels about this process, will he then stand in his place when this motion comes to a vote in the House and vote against it?

[Kyoto Protocol, December 2nd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, there are a couple of things I caught from the member's speech. The acid rain and the ozone treaties were not international treaties. They were bilateral treaties and did not have the potential impact on the Canadian economy that the Kyoto accord would.

Second, if the member thinks his time in the House to debate this issue is not sufficient, why do he and his colleagues not ask the Prime Minister for more time? There is no rush. There is no crisis tomorrow. The sky will not fall tomorrow. Why do we not have more time after the Christmas break to have a proper debate on this issue when we really have a plan to get us to the target, not 60 million tonnes short of it?

[Petitions, December 2nd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I too have another petition to table on the same matter, along with the many that have already been tabled, asking Parliament to do something to protect our children from the perversity that passes as artistic merit.

[Kyoto Protocol, December 2nd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, a survey by the Investment Dealers Association revealed that two-thirds of the U.S. equity analysts contacted believe that if Canada implements Kyoto it will harm the Canadian economy and cause Wall Street to rethink energy sector investments north of the border.

True North Energy, Petro-Canada, Husky Oil and now Canadian Natural Resources have already announced cancellations or postponements of their oil sands projects. Clearly the uncertainty regarding the Prime Minister's Kyoto plan is already hurting Alberta and the Canadian economy.

Wishful thinking and fancy rhetoric will not change this stark economic reality, no matter how much the member for LaSalle—Émard wishes it otherwise.

The member for LaSalle—Émard has the power to stop this foolishness. It is time that he stopped the empty rhetoric, stopped hedging his political bets and instead stand up for the economic and environmental future of Canada. We cannot wait 15 months for the member's version of Kyoto. The damage has already begun.

Canadians really do deserve better.

[Kyoto Protocol, December 2nd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, the member for LaSalle—Émard is correct. Canadians expect better than what they have seen on this file, but we need action now. The best Canadians can hope for in his case is some 14 or 15 months away before he can implement the plan that he outlined and I applaud his suggestions.

However, we need action now. We have four projects in jeopardy in the Athabasca tar sands, including Canadian Natural Resources Limited. The company must make a decision on a multi-billion dollar investment within the next 60 days. We do not have 15 months to wait for the improved plan.

This morning the Investment Dealers Association of Canada is telling us that U.S. investment in energy in Canada would dry up if the Kyoto accord were to be ratified. The member has the power in caucus to influence the defeat of this ratification and give us something better. Why will he not do it?