Deborah Grey

[Minister Of Canadian Heritage, June 15th, 1995]

Mr. Speaker, in the red book in the last campaign I thought integrity was a fairly major issue in the country.

The Prime Minister has said that the heritage minister was not at fault because receipts were issued for all donations. Selling access to a minister of the crown cannot be justified by a handful of receipts. The heritage minister has violated the federal code of ethics by placing himself in a conflict of interest, but instead of doing the honourable thing and demanding his resignation the Prime Minister continues to stubbornly defend the indefensible.

The government has put politics ahead of principles and it is making a mockery of the code of ethics. Enough is enough. Will the heritage minister resign now?

[Minister Of Canadian Heritage, June 15th, 1995]

Mr. Speaker, it is clear the minister attended and he is personally responsible for the contracts that go out under his signature.

The government's excuses and its carefully crafted damage control lines are certainly wearing thin. The heritage minister was clearly in the wrong. The government is making matters worse by refusing to release the full list of all the people who were invited to the minister's dinner, the full list of those who actually sent contributions, and the full list of donors who have received heritage contracts or appointments, not just giving donations. Trying to bury this information in Elections Canada documents will not make it go away.

I have a supplementary question. If the government does not have anything to hide, why is it hiding behind these ludicrous answers? When will it make all the list public?

[Minister Of Canadian Heritage, June 15th, 1995]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the government House leader said that he did not accept the premise of our questions about the heritage minister's violation of the federal code of ethics. We are not dealing with assumptions, conjectures and speculation here. We are dealing with the facts.

It is a fact that the heritage minister targeted departmental clients for political donations. It is a fact that everyone who attended that dinner received a government contract or appointment. It is a fact that the minister blatantly broke section 23 of the government's own code of conduct.

What does it take for the Prime Minister to remove a minister guilty of unethical behaviour? A criminal conviction?

[Criminal Code, June 14th, 1995]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I was sure which way I voted. I should like to seek unanimous consent of the House to give a great round of applause to Audrey O'Brien who has been on her feet for hours and called every vote here tonight.

[Criminal Code, June 14th, 1995]

I am happy to pass, Mr. Speaker.

[Criminal Code, June 14th, 1995]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. Fortunately there only is one member for Beaver River in this House. I am about as tired as the woman who is calling the vote. She is exhausted. I stood to try to expedite it. I am in fact a nay.

[Privilege, June 8th, 1995]

Mr. Speaker, I do hope we can address this now and clear it up just as quickly as possible.

The member is right. I did go over and we did have a rather heated exchange about whether I would come to her riding. When she told me to get out of here and my whip said to call it off, she told me to get real and to get out of here. She said that she turned around to go back to her seat and she did. However, as it was a heated exchange, she did turn around. I was on one step higher than she was and she whirled around and I grabbed her elbow and said: "Come on, let's be reasonable here".

I do apologize for that. I certainly did not mean any harm or assault. I am twice her size. It is just foolishness to think that. I do apologize if she thought there was any intention of an assault. However, this is now on the floor of the House of Commons. I might just mention that in my short discussion of this afterward, and it seems unfortunate that we have to take up House time with this, the member for Huron-Bruce said: "I was here and this is

crazy. I cannot support her in this. This is hardly what we would call an assault".

Mr. Speaker, again I publicly say that is what happened. I absolutely meant no harm or any threat as the member has said. We need to get on with this. Again, I do accept the challenge she has issued to me. I certainly would be willing to go down to her riding and will be in contact with her staff to see if we can get a good political debate going. Or she is certainly welcome to come to Beaver River and we will talk about that.

The issue here is the fact that I did take her arm but it was certainly not a threat. It was something that just happened. When she whirled around in a great hurry I did grab her right elbow and I certainly acknowledge that. I appreciate the fact that we can move forward from this. Certainly when we get into the heat of political debate, it is unfortunate it is the MP pension plan which escalated to this height. However, I trust that we can certainly put this behind us now and move forward.

[Criminal Code, June 8th, 1995]

Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, I do not want to take up much of the House's time. Earlier I was named by the member for Madawaska-Victoria.

After the pension debate I did go over. I had challenged members to a debate, so I went over and we did have a rather heated discussion, I must confess to that. The member told me that I was not worth what I thought I was worth and that we could have a debate any time. That was fine. Then when we got rather heated she turned around to go back to her seat after she had called me a name and I just grabbed her and said "Come on, be real". I thought she was tripping off the step.

As I was named, I thought I should get up and say that this is ridiculous. Let us move on with the country's business.

[Members Of Parliament Retiringallowances Act, June 8th, 1995]

Mr. Speaker, 5:30 is coming up and so is the next election. I challenge all these people. I have watched the debate today and saw people trying to defend something which is simply indefensible. The Canadian public is watching today and I bet it is scandalized. Who pays for these pensions anyway? It is the people who are sending in tax money.

They talk about: "the government looking after me because don't you know I have given service, years, time and energy to this place". Nobody forced me to do it. I chose to be here as did all of us, which was the best thing we could do. When we think about the people who are sending in every dollar of their tax money and financing this thing it is unbelievable.

After question period this afternoon some farmer from the area-I do not even know who he was-brought a little truckload of piglets up here and there they were, Liberal MPs right in at the trough. It is terrible to have to denigrate a little piglet that way but that is the way it is.

As I saw those little piglets I said to the interviewer: "How do you feel about this?" When I see Liberal members, because that is who is bringing this bill in and ramming it through, forcing this through, saying they deserve better, they think they are wonderful and it is unanimous; it is a pity to see them squealing and trying to justify this. With that the little piglet let out a squeal. It made me think I was sitting in the House of Commons. It is shameful and a price will be paid in the next election, believe me.

[Members Of Parliament Retiringallowances Act, June 8th, 1995]

Mr. Speaker, try as they might through points of order, through heckling or whatever, let me rephrase my last statement. I am a woman in Canada and I am proud of that fact, but I do not need to claim any extra treatment or special status for the fact that I deserve somehow an MP pension. I do not.

If we talk about employment equity, let me be equal with every other woman in the country who will receive a pension plan that is fair, just the way every other Canadian does it. I do not need that special treatment because I am a woman. Neither do they. It is as simple as that.

Let me just finish by saying that I was disappointed in what I have seen in this debate. When I was listening to the debate as it was going on and when I heard time allocation being invoked today it made me sad. I sat and had coffee in the last Parliament. It was not with these rookies or first term members. You were there too, Mr. Speaker. We visited and said that if the Liberals got into power or if they became government next time we would not see the same arrogance we saw in the Mulroney years.

I see someone standing to get my attention. I appreciate that so much but she is not being recognized. She should sit down and relax. I know this hurts.