Deborah Grey

[Human Resources Development, March 16th, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, let me quote again from the minister's own documents. They are not hypothetical. They said, “We were told to be flexible and responsive and not to lapse funds. Now we are being told we have to obey the Financial Administration Act”. How about this one, “The rules are not new. They are just being enforced now”. How about this one, “It would appear that this section of the Financial Administration Act was not respected”.

The evidence is here regardless of whether she would just hope that it is a draft or not. I would like to ask the hypothetical minister—

[Human Resources Development, March 16th, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, well let me assure her that even draft recognizes graft. It is shameful that the minister continues to say—

[Human Resources Development, March 16th, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, she might have just separated out the actual TJF grants. None of these people were involved in fancy dealings either to get somebody on board to help them out.

The minister gave us her opinion yesterday which probably a few people appreciated but not many. Not only does her department refer to widespread disregard for the law but so does this new briefing note we have. Let me quote from it again. “It would appear that this section of the Financial Administration Act was not respected”. Her department thought the law had been broken. It realized it.

Was it the Prime Minister's involvement that kept the police from being called in on this?

[Human Resources Development, March 16th, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister thinks being a good MP means giving his own riding more money than the entire province of Manitoba, Saskatchewan or Alberta. Fancy that. His interference with HRD grants and contributions is precisely what the HRD officials are complaining about.

Now another briefing document that we have dealing with trust funds in the Prime Minister's riding says “it would appear that this section of the Financial Administration Act was not respected”. That is an admission of guilt. Why were the police not called in?

[Human Resources Development, March 15th, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, let me quote from the actual questions and answers, which I did not dream up. This was something the department came up with and I would like to quote verbatim. The staff said “Now we are being asked and told that we have to obey the Financial Administration Act”, to which the deputy minister has stated “We have to work within the rules, starting now”.

I would like the minister to stand and say why in the world she allows this to continue.

[Human Resources Development, March 15th, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, that is one girl's opinion. I would like to quote from her own employees.

[Human Resources Development, March 15th, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, she is not out of the crisis yet because very recently her own employees have resented the fact that she continues to blame anybody but herself. In fact, they have resorted to taking out radio ads to defend themselves.

They were told to play with the rules. They were told not to pay attention to details like the law. Breaking the Financial Administration Act carries with it a five year prison term, but in HRDC it had become routine.

What laws will the minister and the government not break for their own political gain?

[Human Resources Development, March 15th, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, we have obtained documents that show HRDC officials regularly flaunted the Financial Administration Act and Treasury Board guidelines because their political masters interfered. Departmental questions and answers were prepared in response to the fallout of this damning internal audit. Staff said “We were told to be flexible and responsive and not to lapse funds. Now we are being told we have to obey the Financial Administration Act and Treasury Board guidelines”. How inconvenient.

Why was this government operating for years outside the law?

[Human Resources Development, March 13th, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, I will tell you where this party has been. We have been filing access to information requests because this minister was not forthcoming.

Let me also add that the minister continues to say that she came forward with her little six point plan and everything was going to be all right. The only reason she made this plan public was because she knew she had been caught in the act.

Was the minister gambling that this little plan would be uncovered before the next election?

[Human Resources Development, March 13th, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, let me just tell the minister that we are getting close with all of these investigations going on. It will be surprising how much money they actually do come up with.

I would have thought that with a week away from the House she could have come up with a better strategy than that.

In August her officials had a plan to release the internal audit. They chose three strategies: a transparent one, a semi-transparent one and a hide and seek version. The so-called reactive strategy involved the department carrying on business as usual until it got caught.

Why did the minister choose a “let us not get caught” strategy?