Norman E. Doyle

[Budget Implementation Act, 2003, March 27th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, I could not agree more with the hon. member. There are all kinds of good programs that the federal government has come up with which have helped Atlantic Canada. I can refer specifically to the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency, ACOA.

ACOA has been good to the Atlantic region. It has helped Newfoundland and Labrador quite a great deal. I cannot help but feel that these programs are not doing the job that they should be doing.

I do not know if the member was here when I was telling the House about the budget that will be brought down today in Newfoundland and Labrador. This is a $4 billion budget with a $600 million deficit for a little area such as Newfoundland and Labrador that has a population of 500,000. It is scandalous to have that much of a deficit.

We have so much in the way of natural resources. It becomes frustrating when these programs, such as ACOA, which were originally intended to give poorer areas in the Atlantic region a leg up do not really seem to be producing or putting the economy back on its feet the way they should.

It would be more beneficial if the federal government said to Newfoundland and Labrador, for instance, that since it is into the Voisey's Bay development, and it is a big development--the largest nickel find in the world--and since the Newfoundland and Labrador cod fishery has gone down quite a great deal, the federal government would help by giving perhaps a five year equalization clawback holiday.

In that way the province could reap some of the benefits that Voisey's Bay would produce or that the much improved crab and shrimp fishery would be producing. It is a billion dollar industry. Maybe the federal government would give an equalization clawback holiday. The federal government would not make a complete change in the program, but would give a holiday so that the province could reap some benefits from the royalties from Hibernia, White Rose, Ben Nevis or Voisey's Bay.

In that way, when Newfoundland and Labrador would get its standard of living up to the national average and would be able to compete economically with the rest of the country, then the federal government would reimpose the original equalization clawback provision. That would be a step in the right direction for the federal government to take for provinces in need.

I can readily identify with the hon. member's comments with respect to his own area in northern Ontario because there are problems there as well. These things should be worked out for these poorer areas.

[Budget Implementation Act, 2003, March 27th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to say a few words in the debate today on budget 2003.

First, the budget does include some good news dispersed throughout various parts of the budget. The first piece of good news is that the child tax credit was increased in the budget. The House is on record as being committed to the eradication of child poverty. We all remember back to a number of years ago when we said that we would eradicate child poverty by the year 2000. Of course that deadline has long passed and we are certainly playing catch up on our commitment to eradicating child poverty by the year 2000.

About three years ago I was part of a committee that travelled the country between Newfoundland and Vancouver looking into the issue of poverty and child poverty in particular. We held public hearings all across the country. It was a real eye opener for me. A number of people who came before our committee told us personal stories about poverty and how an individual or a family could get into a cycle of poverty from which they could not escape. A lot of it has to do with the fact that the federal government, and governments generally, are not coming up with good programs to address the whole issue of poverty in the country.

The faces of poverty are many in this country. We have the working poor. We have people who cannot find jobs and who sometimes live in a state of poverty from which they cannot escape. Children, in particular, are hurt by poverty. Impoverished children, as we are all very much aware, come from impoverished families. The government is not entirely blameless when it comes to the various causes of poverty that we see today.

In my part of the country, in Newfoundland and Labrador, people were negatively affected when the fishery closed down a number of years ago. We also had people who were negatively affected by some of the programs brought in by the federal government, namely the employment insurance program, which the government cut back on drastically. It was probably instrumental in causing the out migration of roughly 70,000 people over a seven or eight year period. These were people working in seasonal industries and who had seasonal employment.

I have always been disappointed to see some of the policies of the federal government as it pertains to seasonal employment. We have to recognize that in certain parts of the country seasonal employment is very important. The fishery is important but, by its very nature, it is seasonal and therefore employment is seasonal. It cannot be done sometimes in winter months in some areas. The same can apply to the forestry or mining industries. The federal government has hit those industries particularly hard because of the various changes that it has brought about through employment insurance.

Another area for which I have been concerned has to do with the massive cuts to the federal transfers to the provinces for health care. That has hurt a lot of provinces and the territories. It has hurt people of all ages.

The cuts in transfers to post-secondary education is another area on which we need to concentrate. These cuts to post-secondary education, for instance, have resulted in provincial student grants being changed to provincial student loans. It is heart-rending to see students coming in to my office on occasion who have just graduated and who have a $50,000 student debt. They are looking for jobs and very often the first job they acquire is a low paying job because of lack of experience and what have you.

When we speak of poverty we have to look across the spectrum. We will see that many students out there today are living in poverty after they graduate because of the massive debtloads they are carrying and trying to pay off. How do we expect the average graduates to get homes, mortgages or cars which they will need to travel back and forth to work? How do we expect them to marry and raise families when they are carrying those kinds of massive student debtloads?

Those are important areas and contribute to the various steps that we see regarding the number of people who are living below the poverty line. The government in essence helped create a generation of impoverished students and debt-ridden graduates, which is not fair. The federal government should be looking at that a little more closely.

Any kind of government initiative that puts more money into the hands of low income families with children will get my applause. The child tax credit increase is an initiative that I was pleased to see. As well, I applaud the funding for day care and early childhood education. It will help low income families. When our committee travelled these were things that we heard. Single mothers told us that it was very difficult to find a good day care for their children so that they could go out and pursue employment and try to get out of debt and the cycle of poverty in which they find themselves.

I am pleased as well that the budget incorporates the latest arrangements between the premiers and the Prime Minister on revitalizing our national health care care system. While the current health care arrangement is an improvement, most commentators today, as I am sure members have heard, indicate that much more funding is necessary if we are going to fix our health care system and bring it back to what it was prior to 1992.

Because the funding is done on a strictly per capita basis, again I have to refer back to the effect that it will have upon my own province because the funding is done on a strictly per capita basis. Newfoundland's slice of the multibillion dollar pie is a paltry $200 million over a three year period, or about $70 million a year. That is not a great deal of money when we put it into context, because the population is aging and shrinking at the same time, and it is spread over a huge geographic area. This is definitely a losing formula for Newfoundland and Labrador.

The government, as we are all very well aware, replaced the established program financing formula, the old EPF system of transfers, with the Canada health and social transfer, called the CHST.

Under the old EPF system of financing, moneys were transferred specifically for health care and the formula would take into account the difficulties of delivering health care to the many scattered communities all over Newfoundland and Labrador.

The CHST which is allocated to the province is without regard to the age of the people or population or how the population might be spread over a very large geographic area. In our case, we have 400,000 square kilometres with 520,000 people. That is quite a large area.

The old EPF system took into account the huge geographic area to which it had to deliver these health care dollars. However the new formula, the CHST, does not take any of that into account. As a result we are under a losing formula when it comes to CHST.

The simple fact of the matter is that in the province, as I said, we have an aging, shrinking and geographically dispersed population. The health care transfer system needs to be adjusted to reflect that fact. How many times have we said that? That would be fair. It is only fair to reflect the fact that there is a huge geographic area to deliver limited health care dollars. These are a few of the areas for which I have some concern.

When we speak of health care, recently the Prime Minister went on record as saying that the per capita funding formula does not serve well in the case of the territories. I could say to him as well that it is not only the territories. He is right when he says that it does not serve the territories very well, but it does not serve large areas of the country that will receive limited health care dollars. As I said and will repeat, there are 400,000 square kilometres in Newfoundland and Labrador.

Another area which I want to touch on is the whole area of equalization. How many times in the six years I have been here have I spoken on the current equalization formula. I would imagine I have spoken on that one subject alone at least 20 times. The budget was silent again on equalization and the clawback provisions in the equalization formula.

Newfoundland and Labrador does not reap the full benefits of development of our natural resources. What else is new? For example, the income from oil or mining royalties is clawed back through reductions in the equalization formula. In other words, we have a formula whereby if a dollar is earned, a dollar is also lost. A dollar will be clawed back by the federal government from the resource revenues that are generated. It may not be exactly a dollar, but it is almost a dollar. It is a formula that one could accurately describe as: earn a dollar, lose a dollar.

Today in my province, we are bringing down a $4 billion the budget. Guess what? It will have a real deficit of about $600 million on a $4 billion budget. The only reason that the credit rating agencies are keeping the credit rating of the province in a fairly good position is the fact that our growth has been quite good over the last three years in particular. I believe we led the country in growth over a three year period. I know we are leading the country in growth this year and probably did last year as well.

Here is a little province with a $4 billion budget leading the country in growth. It has a $600 million deficit and a decent credit rating because its future looks pretty good. We have a Voisey's Bay development coming on stream in the next couple of years, the largest nickel find in the world. We have an oil industry. We have a crab and a shrimp industry that is worth in the neighbourhood of $1 billion. We are doing decently well in mining and forestry. Therefore we are generating quite a lot of revenues. However that revenue was clawed back by the federal government dollar for dollar, practically.

We have a $4 billion budget, a $600 million deficit, we are leading the country in growth and we are the poorest province in Canada. How do we figure that one out? Producing oil, producing the largest mining operation in the world like Voisey's Bay, $1 billion crab and shrimp industry, only 500,000 people, people leave the province in droves, $600 deficit and we are the poorest province in Canada. Obviously it is because of the way the funding formula for equalization is set up: earn a dollar; lose a dollar.

We very often hear the federal government say that it cannot do anything about changing the formula because provinces like Ontario or Alberta would not agree, provinces which are net contributors to the country but are not really getting too much out of equalization. I cannot figure out how it is in the best interests of the federal government, Alberta or Ontario to have a province like Newfoundland and Labrador as the poorest province in Canada when it is producing so much in the way of fish, oil and mining royalties.

It is not in the best interests of the country to have that equalization formula punishing the poorer provinces like Newfoundland and Labrador, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island or New Brunswick.

The government has said that it cannot act unilaterally on equalization to improve the clawback to the equalization from the poorer provinces. That did not stop the government from unilaterally lifting the ceiling on the total cost of the equalization program back in the year 2000, which was an election year. The government lifted the cap on equalization unilaterally, then once the election was over, it unilaterally again reimposed the program ceiling. So much for the theory that it needs widespread consent.

This has always been the thing, the government needs widespread consent from places like Ontario or Alberta to change the equalization formula, but it changed the ceiling unilaterally back in the year 2000. It did not stop the federal government tinkering with the equalization program back then, and once the election was over it tinkered again and put the cap back on equalization.

Yes, it can unilaterally change the equalization formula to make it a bit easier on the have not provinces like Newfoundland, Nova Scotia and the Atlantic area generally. We should deal with this terrible formula of the province earning a dollar and the federal government taking a dollar. By doing that a bit of fairness can be injected into provinces that are struggling, that are making money, that are working very hard, but cannot keep the money because of this despicable formula, this unfair way of dealing with provinces like Newfoundland and Labrador.

[Canada-U.S. Relations, March 20th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, as we speak, an American led coalition has begun the business of forcibly disarming Saddam Hussein.

The Government of Canada has decided that we will not participate in this particular conflict, and I have no doubt that it meets with the approval of most Canadians.

However, that being said, now is the time for Canadians in positions of responsibility, including members of the House, to refrain from making gratuitous negative comments about our American neighbours and their leadership. Our economies are tightly intertwined and we are, and have been, allies on many fronts.

We will not always agree with the Americans in international affairs but we do share a continent with them. It is in Canada's best interest to strive for good relations with the U.S. whenever possible.

Let us hope and pray for a mercifully swift war and a peace that brings a better tomorrow for all of us on this planet.

[Assisted Human Reproduction Act, March 18th, 2003]

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to have a few words to say on Bill C-13. Like many who have already spoken in this debate, I too am against experimentation on embryonic stem cells. I just do not believe that the creation of the human embryo for the eventual destruction of it is an ethical procedure that we should be involved in here in Canada.

We have, as we are all very much aware, received many petitions in the House of Commons. I have received many from my riding of St. John's East urging all of us to oppose Bill C-13 and to concentrate our efforts on adult stem cells. We have seen hundreds and hundreds of petitions coming to the House of Commons on a daily basis.

We have heard a great deal about adult stem cells and the fact that this kind of experimentation holds great promise for cures for many diseases, like Parkinson's, multiple sclerosis, cancer and diabetes, and for the reversal of damage from spinal cord injury and stroke. That research, as many people have been saying, would benefit a great deal from greater resources being put into it. It would make sense to put greater resources into adult stem cell research. This should be given greater priority by government.

By contrast, of course, there is an ethical dilemma arising from embryonic stem cell research. We are told that the benefits of embryonic stem cell research are sheer speculation at the moment. The controversy is expending a great deal of energy that I feel could be better redirected toward more promising pursuits like adult stem cell research.

Many ethical questions remain unanswered, not the least of which is the question of what happens to the embryos that remain unused in this experimentation. I have heard many points of view, some very good, put forward today regarding the beginnings of life. There are many, including me, who believe that life begins at conception. Given that belief, which is held by many, and given that these small beginnings of life have the potential to grow into full human beings, then from my point of view government should be coming up with some way to protect these very beginnings of life.

What is the reason we are not putting greater energy and greater resources into, if we will, pro-life? I happen to believe that we in the 21st century unfortunately are living in a culture of death. We seem to have very little respect for human beings and very little respect for the beginnings of life.

It probably stems from the fact that we have been fed a steady diet of violence and death on a daily basis. We have become desensitized by the images of death all around us. When we see, for instance, hundreds of dead bodies floating in a river in Rwanda, when we see thousands of dead human beings stacked one on top of the other in an image from the second world war and the Jewish holocaust, when we see hundreds of thousands of people on the brink of starvation and death in Somalia, or when we see bodies strewn in the streets from a chemical attack, then society becomes very desensitized, and things like abortion become just another procedure instead of the destruction of a human being, a living, moving human being.

We can see, then, how embryonic stem cell research works its way on to the floor of the House of Commons. Assisted suicide and euthanasia will probably find their way here as well. Why? Because we live in a desensitized world, I believe, which embraces the culture of violence and death, and that is quite unfortunate.

There are many scientific risks surrounding embryonic stem cell experimentation. Initially scientists thought that real progress from stem cell research would come by way of embryonic stem cells. Today, however, it is known that while adult stem cells are already being used successfully in some human treatments, embryonic stem cells have yet to be associated with any kind of successful human trials. Embryonic stem cells are far from the utopian medical breakthrough that many people are suggesting. Embryonic stem cells appear to be subject, for instance, to a random and uncontrollable growth. On the other hand, adult stem cells seem to be more predictable in responding to the growth factors and hormones that function to redirect their development. Embryonic stem cells have been known to grow into the wrong types of cells, for instance, so the method for steering stem cells in the right direction still needs significant improvement.

Where should we go from here? I believe that due to the scientific risk and the ethical dilemmas associated with human embryonic stem cell experimentation, a moratorium on funding such research should be issued and we should be putting society's money into adult stem cell research. We are talking about human life. I think that we have an opportunity here to show respect and protection for the very beginnings of life.

It is far more beneficial for us to be concentrating our efforts on adult stem cell research. Let us stop for a moment and have a look at what we are doing here.

[Fisheries, February 26th, 2003]

Madam Chairman, I want to congratulate my colleague from St. John's West on a great speech. It showed that he understands the fishery very well.

The people in Newfoundland and Labrador and successive governments there have been calling on Canada to exert custodial management of the fish stocks that straddle the 200 mile limit. There is a 1995 United Nations protocol on straddling stocks that came into effect in December 2001. The European Union has yet to ratify that protocol. The European Union's behaviour to date indicates that it is not going to be keen on ratifying such a system, which is why Canada has to take the bull by the horns and take unilateral action on custodial management outside the 200 mile limit.

Would the hon. member care to comment on that?

[Fisheries, February 26th, 2003]

Madam Chairman, obviously, if the cod fishery should close, a couple of thousand fishermen or more will be out of work because of the federal government's mismanagement of the fishery.

In a statement the minister made in Halifax he said “I'm trying to figure out what aid is available to communities that would be affected by the closure of the east coast cod fishery”. The article goes on to say “He has asked the provinces to inventory their programs as well”.

That hardly strikes me as a firm federal resolve to take full responsibility for another fisheries disaster happening on the federal watch.

A few minutes ago I think the member said that we did not need another TAGS program, that it would not serve the fishermen well. I am wondering what kind of options would be open to the federal government to compensate fishermen and their families. Should there be a package to help fishermen in this regard? What are the options open to the federal government in the member's opinion?

[Fisheries, February 26th, 2003]

Madam Chairman, I have been sitting on the all party fisheries committee for the last couple of months and the first thing that we find out is that the fishery has never really been treated as an important issue by the federal government until such time as it is looking at an economic and social disaster.

Let us look back at the billions of dollars that have been spent to alleviate the plight of fishing communities hard hit by the first cod moratorium. If even a tenth of that money had been previously spent in some fisheries management, perhaps there would not have been any need for the programs that we had at that time. Maybe the province would not have lost 70,000 people that it lost in out-migration over the last decade.

Concerns are high indeed that the government would be closing down the remaining northern cod fishery. The minister has all but made that announcement here tonight. What I have been really interested in finding out is, why has the federal government cut back so much on the science associated with seals?

In 2000 for example, DFO estimated that harp seals in 2J3KL consumed 893,000 tonnes of caplin, 186,000 tonnes of Arctic cod and 37,000 tonnes of Atlantic cod. Scientists are saying that the diet data from the inshore showed that the per capita consumption of cod by harp seals did not even decline with the collapse of the cod stocks.

I am sure that the hon. gentleman has a great deal of concern about the science associated with the cod stocks and seal predation. I would like the hon. member to comment on why the federal government has cut back so much on the science associated with seal predation and cod stocks?

[Human Resources Development, February 21st, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, HRD Canada is cracking down on graduates who owe money on their student loans by confiscating their income tax refunds. In many cases these graduates are single parents working at minimum wage or working part time, perhaps subsidized by social assistance, people who require every cent they can get to feed and house their families.

Is the minister aware and supportive of this cruel attack on debt ridden graduates by her department?

[Canada Pension Plan, February 20th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, I would agree with the hon. gentleman that whenever possible the money should be invested in Canada. I am certainly not an expert in finances and how these things should be invested. That is generally left to the people who are on the board and to the people who are expert in the area.

However my initial reaction would have to be that wherever possible the money should be invested in Canada for the good of Canada, and that is the long term good of the fund being preserved.

[Canada Pension Plan, February 20th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, I know where the hon. member is coming from and I agree with him to a certain extent. However I believe the board should always have the freedom to invest in whatever areas it wishes to invest in. We are talking about a good investment portfolio for the Canada pension plan. It has to be invested for the long term. Good portfolio management expertise will prevail with the right quality of people at the management level.

We all have our personal thoughts on tobacco and how it affects the nation as a whole but I think we have to ensure that the management board has the freedom to make the good managerial decisions that need to be made for the long term benefit of the plan.