David Collenette

[The Canadian Armed Forces, September 23rd, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, I can understand your confusion between the hon. member and me in the way we look. I can say that we share fundamentally different convictions about the country and about the direction of the armed forces.

I am quite surprised by what the hon. member has said. Somehow he has elevated the position of a general officer retired

from the armed forces into some privileged position within Canadian society. Well, I have news for him. We are all equals in Canadian society, whether we are ex-generals, plumbers or carpenters. We all have the right to take part in the democratic process and express our views.

The hon. member sat through the questioning last week. He did not take part in it. I think he understands the process. It is a process which he supported, and the former Bloc leader, now the premier of Quebec, supported when he was in the House, which is to have an open, independent inquiry so that all the issues can be heard and that no individual, no circumstances should be judged in isolation.

[The Canadian Armed Forces, September 23rd, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, the mark of a democratic society is that individuals are free to criticize the government. It is not unusual for governments to be criticized by former politicians. I have to say that one of the many blessings I have as Minister of National Defence is that from time to time many former members of the armed forces pop up and make certain contributions to public debate.

Generally those contributions are constructive. In some cases they are critical. That is the right of those individuals. In some cases they are uncomfortable with the direction in which we are taking the armed forces. In other cases it is to set the record straight and to put their own time in office in a certain light with respect to posterity.

This is quite normal in a democracy and it certainly does not shake our resolve to continue the course that we have embarked on.

[Somalia Inquiry, September 20th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, what is on the minds of Canadians at a time when the unity of the country is threatened, when we are facing the challenges of globalization, is why a group of members in the House of Commons comes in here every day to try to politicize a process that is supposed to be devoid of politics.

That is what is on the minds of Canadians.

I have answered the question with respect to the role of ministers in responsible government, the role of public servants. I would invite the hon. member to analyse his own question because there is illogic in the actual question the way it was posed.

[Somalia Inquiry, September 20th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, I am relieved. I have been waiting for two days to be asked to resign by the hon. member and it has come at last.

What we have to look at is what the members of the Reform Party are trying to do with this independent judicial process. They are trying to politicize it.

I have tried not to be partisan this week in dealing with an issue which is tough, tough for the government and tough for everybody. However, we see over there desperation politics. Their leader is under assault. Their spokesman from Calgary West or Calgary Centre has not been in the House. They have three or four members who will not even support the leader of the Reform Party. This is an absolute and total attempt to politicize what should be an impartial process.

We are seeing the Reform Party undertake tactics that are not worthy of this Chamber.

[Somalia Inquiry, September 20th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians have a perception of the Reform Party as one that does not understand parliamentary traditions. It does not understand that public servants work for the government and do not have the right to defend themselves in a political arena.

I think the hon. member would be much more comfortable sitting in the House of Representatives in Washington than he is sitting in the Parliament of Canada in Ottawa.

[Somalia Inquiry, September 20th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, this says something about the mentality of the members of the Reform Party. They are not content just to attack ministers. But that is fair ball because we run for office and we have to defend our policies.

The mentality of the Reform Party is not to stop with the politicians, which is an acceptable part of our democratic process. These people want to attack public servants who are doing their job, public servants who are unable to defend themselves here on the floor of the House of Commons like I am.

This is why the Reform Party approach is being rejected by Canadians every single day.

[Bosnia, September 20th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, obviously this is a matter that will be the subject of cabinet discussions. My colleague, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, will be leading that discussion.

I am glad the hon. member made a tribute to the hard work of the men and women now serving in Bosnia.

The Canadian government's position has always been that we want stability in that region. That is why we committed 1,000 troops to the IFOR force. It is quite obvious to most people that some continuation of the force will be required once IFOR's mandate terminates. That will be the discussion between ministers next week.

Once it is determined what is required, Canada will have to decide whether we shall continue to participate and at what level.

[The Canadian Armed Forces, September 20th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, as I have said in answer to earlier questions, this is a department that needed much

reform in its administrative practices. Apparently now we have had allegations of fraudulent practices which obviously cannot be accepted and cannot be tolerated. They have been investigated. There are charges that are about to be laid and some that have already been laid. Actions have already been taken against at least one individual.

The key thing is that once the information comes to light, no matter how disquietening, one must act and act with alacrity. That is what the department is doing in this particular case.

[The Canadian Armed Forces, September 20th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, these allegations of fraudulent practices at CFB Base Valcartier have been known for some time and have been the subject of some investigations. A number of people have been charged and other charges are pending.

Again, we have to let the investigative and judicial processes take effect. Obviously we are concerned when anything of this nature occurs, especially since the allegations are that these practices have been going on at least for ten years.

[Department Of National Defence, September 20th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, again the hon. member and his colleagues ignore a fundamental principle of

responsible government in the parliamentary context. I would invite him over the weekend to go back and look at some textbooks to see how our parliamentary system has evolved.

The fact is that ministers elected by the people are responsible for the actions within their own department. I and I alone am responsible for those terms of reference.