John Finlay

[Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act, October 28th, 1997]

Madam Speaker, I would like to comment on the last two speeches made by the hon. member for Calgary East and the hon. member for Okanagan—Shuswap.

It seems to me that what we need to understand is something which has not been mentioned.

The Mackenzie River Valley is one of the greatest river systems in the world. It ranks up there with the Amazon, with the Nile, with the Mississippi, with the Yangtze Kiang and with others. We could probably put the whole of the maritime provinces into the Mackenzie River Valley and have lots of space left over for some of the huge caribou herds that used to roam there.

My hon. colleagues seem to forget that we are not dealing with tightly knit southern Canada, a fully developed area; we are dealing with thousands of acres, thousands of hectares, and disparate people. Many people still live off the land, they eat food produced on that land and their wish is that the rivers continue to run cleanly and freshly. Their wish is to maintain that land as closely as they can to the way their great spirits left it to them.

I never saw the word mining in the bill when I was studying it. It never came up. If we allow the Chamber of Mines of the GNWT to tell us how to do it there may not be a Mackenzie River Valley worth talking about.

My friends say that there are too many boards. As the parliamentary secretary has already said, the Gwich'in want to have a board. They want to be represented. They want to have control over the large area in which they live. The Sahtu want to have a board. Depending on what agreements are made with the Dene and the Treaty 8 nations and the Deh Cho we might have six more boards. We might have three. We might have one. That is the way things are done. People's responsibility has to be allowed to work.

I would ask my colleagues whether they have considered that the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples spent $6 million over five years, or maybe it was $5 million over six years, to write many pages containing over 400 recommendations dealing with our fiduciary and our constitutional responsibilities to the aboriginal people of this country.

We are not going to solve the problem if we keep looking at this as “this is not quite as efficient as it should be” and “the miners have not got full control” and “development will not occur because the investors will not put money in unless they can control everything” and so on.

Time is running out. We have a report which some of us have studied and done some work on. I said it this morning and I will repeat it now. The report says that the solutions to our problems with respect to the aboriginal people becoming a functioning part of this country—and they were the original inhabitants—are four: recognition, respect, sharing and responsibility.

This Parliament has the total responsibility of seeing that we come to terms with this problem in our Constitution, with these people, who are the original inhabitants of this land.

I have heard nothing more than fine words. I have heard no practical ways to deal with this matter that are not at least suggested in the bill, such as boards that are local.

I want my hon. friend to tell me how things like these little enclaves or masters of their own destiny or an institutionalized welfare state are going to help the situation and how Bill C-6 is not going to help the situation.

[Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act, October 28th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the question from the parliamentary secretary, although I only heard about one-third of it. I think he said something about the number of panels. I explained that there were six. Of course, when we get the other settlement areas there will have to be another two panels for each one. I do not know how we can get away from panels if we are going to share responsibility and get input from the people who care about the place they live, about its future and its development.

I do not know if I have answered the parliamentary secretary's question, but that is my point of view.

[Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act, October 28th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, I rise to address the House on Bill C-6, the Mackenzie Valley resource management act. I am pleased to join my hon. colleagues, the secretary of state and the parliamentary secretary, in speaking in support of the legislation.

I will explain the roles and responsibilities of the new boards the bill establishes and how they will bring decision making to the residents of the Mackenzie Valley.

Bill C-6 will establish a total of six new boards, two of which will have jurisdiction throughout the Mackenzie Valley. The other four boards will be regional institutions, two in the Gwich'in settlement area and two in the Sahtu settlement area.

Under Bill C-6 each of the Gwich'in and Sahtu settlement areas will have a regional land use planning board composed of two nominees from the aboriginal beneficiary group, two from government and a chairperson. Support services will be provided by a small technical and administrative staff.

This board will be responsible for land use planning for all lands and waters within the settlement area, except for lands in national parks or within the boundaries of a local government. As the parliamentary secretary has stated, the purpose of this planning will be to protect and promote the social, cultural and economic well-being of the residents of the settlement area.

Aboriginal organizations, governments and the general public in each settlement area will have an opportunity to comment on draft land use plans or any proposed changes to the plan. The plan must be approved by the affected aboriginal group and the federal and territorial governments. It will be reviewed every five years.

The land and water authorities in the settlement area will conduct their operations according to the approved plan. Each board will monitor the implementation of its land use plan and will determine whether development proposals conform with it.

From time to time these regional land use planning boards may participate in co-operative planning exercises with similar institutions in adjacent areas. Of course, it is hoped that eventually the Dogrib, the Deh Cho and the other Treaty 8 areas of the Mackenzie Valley will become part of this overall picture.

A regional land and water board will also operate in each of the settlement areas. These boards will consist of five members: two from government, two from the aboriginal beneficiary group and a chairperson.

The regional land and water boards will issue, amend or renew land use permits and water licences for all lands and waters in the settlement area, except where these powers are already exercised by a local government. Support will be provided by a small technical and administrative staff.

These boards will not issue licences or permits for projects that are not compatible with the land use plan for the settlement area. As well, proposals must have been subjected to an environmental impact assessment before a licence or permit will be issued. This permitting and licensing process takes into account certain protection and guarantees for waters that lie on or flow through settlement areas granted by the Gwich'in, Sahtu Dene and Metis land claim agreements.

Bill C-6 also includes provisions for inspections, for fines and for prison terms for persons who contravene any regulations made under this legislation or who fail to comply with the terms of a permit. The board may also order that compensation be provided to a First Nation with a claim agreement for any substantial change in the quality, quantity or rate of flow of waters through or adjacent to the settlement lands of the First Nation.

This bill obviously takes an ecosystem approach to this problem, similar to that which we have in conservation areas of other provinces.

In looking beyond the settlement areas, of which there are five, these regional land claim agreements foresaw the need for a co-ordinated system of resource regulation throughout the Mackenzie Valley. Toward this end, Bill C-6 will authorize the governor in council to establish the Mackenzie Valley land and water board to promote co-ordination and consistency in the regional permitting and licensing process.

This valley-wide board will deal with issues or projects whose impacts may cross settlement areas or will be outside settlement areas. Special panels may be established for this purpose. The land and water board of each settlement area will become a permanent panel of the larger valley-wide board.

The sixth board which will be established under Bill C-6, the environmental impact review board, will also exercise jurisdiction over the entire valley. This board will be located in Yellowknife and will have up to 11 members, including a chairperson. It will have equal nominees from government and aboriginal groups, including at least one member from each of the Gwich'in and Sahtu organizations.

The environmental impact review board will assess and, where necessary, publicly review all development proposals in the Mackenzie Valley. Based on these assessments and reviews, the board will recommend rejection or approval of projects to the minister. Its members will be supported by a small environmental and administrative staff.

The objective of the board is clear: to ensure that the environmental impacts of development proposals in the valley receive careful consideration before actions are taken. The board will also ensure that these development proposals do not cause significant adverse affects outside the valley. It will ensure aboriginal organizations, government and the public have the opportunity to express their concerns during the assessment and review process.

Bill C-6 stipulates that preliminary screening, assessments and reviews of development proposals are to be carried out in a timely and expeditious manner. As an initial step, all proposals will be screened to determined whether an assessment is required. The assessment will determine whether a full scale review is required. It should be noted that the minister may order that a review be undertaken even if the board decides it is not necessary.

When a review is undertaken, the review panel must have at least three members. Aboriginal people will have guaranteed representation on the review board when the proposal is within a claim settlement area.

Once an environment review has been completed under Bill C-6, the minister has a number of options. The minister may accept the recommendations of the review panel; refer the recommendations back to the panel for further consideration; accept the recommendations, with modifications, or reject them.

The minister's decision on how to proceed with the board's recommendations may be augmented by information that was not before the review panel or on matters of public interest not considered by the review board. Once a decision has been made, it will be implemented by the appropriate regulatory authorities.

These boards establish a comprehensive system of checks and balances for resource management in the Mackenzie Valley area. They do this while meeting the spirit of the recommendations on co-management put forward by the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples.

Having mentioned that document, I want to review with all members the four principle bases on which the commission says we must deal in the future with aboriginal people. Those principles are recognition, respect, sharing and responsibility.

In pursuing Bill C-6 we will find that the original inhabitants of this part of Canada and the north have been recognized and have been dealt with as partners. They have been dealt with with respect by their required appointment to these various boards and by the rights they have negotiated under land claim agreements. They are sharing with us in the co-management of development and resources. We are saying to them “You have major responsibilities in this area to protect not only your settlement area but the whole of the Mackenzie Valley resource, be it natural or human or aesthetic”.

I have letters from the Premier of the Government of the North West Territories, Don Morin, approving and supporting Bill C-6. I have letters from the Gwich'in Tribal Council and its president, Willard Hagen, a letter from the Sahtu Secretariat Incorporated from the president, Larry Tourangeau, a letter from the president of the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers and a letter from the Canadian Energy Pipeline Association all approving Bill C-6.

[Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act, October 28th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, I am very interested in the recent exchange between my colleagues from Kelowna and Okanagan—Shuswap. I have a couple of questions for the hon. member for Okanagan—Shuswap.

I am a bit confused. If we have worked on these problems for so long we do not want to pass something that is not right. We want something that is simple and that natural resources will understand. We want a lot of things out of the legislation we will obviously not get. We need something that can be worked with, something that is balanced and something that is fair.

I do not think my hon. colleague can have it both ways. There is no way he will be right 100% of the time. We all know that.

I ask the member to explain the term under-resourced, another word that puzzles me. He used that term in his speech. He said something about conditions in the north or development being under-resourced. Could I have an explanation?

[The Environment, October 24th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, according to the Sierra Club of Canada we are the second largest emitter of greenhouse gases per capita in the industrialized world.

To the government's credit, the Minister of the Environment has indicated that Canadians and the international community must take immediate action to reduce these emissions and stop the harmful effects of global climate change.

It is up to each and every Canadian to do their part to reduce emissions. It means being more responsible in how we use energy. It means conserving our national resources. It means using renewable fuels that are more friendly to the environment. We cannot rely on any other sector of the population to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions for us. All Canadians must work together to reduce these emissions.

I fully support the Minister of the Environment and the international community in their efforts to reduce the threat of global warming.

[Petitions, October 22nd, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 36, I have a petition signed by 135 constituents of Oxford who request that the Criminal Code be reviewed and amended to correct and clarify the sections pertaining to public nudity.

[Criminal Code, October 9th, 1997]

moved for leave to introduce Bill C-245, an act to amend the Criminal Code (penalties for sexual offences involving children).

Madam Speaker, I introduced this bill in the 35th Parliament and I am pleased to reintroduce it today.

Enactment of this bill would ensure that the definition of publication in the case of child pornography covers transmission by electronic means or posting the material on the Internet or any other electronic net.

It also provides for an increase in the maximum punishment of imprisonment for life with no parole eligibility for 25 years if guilty of sexual assault on a child under eight or on a child under 14 who is under the offender's trust and authority or dependent on the offender.

It also provides for an increase in the maximum penalty for forcible confinement from 10 to 14 years in the case of a parent or ward who confines a child and thereby harms the child's physical or mental health.

I look forward to the support of my colleagues on this bill.

(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed)

[Teachers, October 6th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization, UNESCO, designated October 5, 1997 as world teachers day, a day to honour the teaching profession.

Before entering this House in 1993 I spent my entire professional career in education. I began as a teacher and progressed through the ranks to become a vice-principal, principal and superintendent with the Oxford County Board of Education.

Throughout my career I had the pleasure of working with teachers who taught all grades from pre-kindergarten through grade 13. These teachers deserve our thanks not only on world teachers day but on every day of the year. Whether in the classrooms, coaching sports teams, supervising clubs or directing a school play, teachers play an integral role in the development of our children.

On behalf of all members, I applaud our teachers for the valuable work they do.

[Speech From The Throne, October 3rd, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, I was struck by the compassionate and passionate speech by the member for Longueuil.

I appreciate her comments about women. I think she would know that all of us in this House welcome members who are women. We made much in the last Parliament about there being more women representatives than in any previous Parliament. I am not sure whether that is true of the 36th, but I believe it is. I believe that the hon. member's party has been instrumental in improving that ratio.

I have no difficulty in acknowledging that Quebec has a culture. The member said that Quebec was its culture and it is what made a people but that somebody did not seem to recognize that. I would suggest that many of us recognize that. I certainly recognize it and I applaud it.

I wonder whether the member is not being a little hard on everyone else in that the premiers in Calgary indicated that the other provinces in this country believe there is a distinct culture and a unique character to Quebec.

[Speech From The Throne, September 29th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the comments and the question from my colleague from Frontenac—Mégantic whom I worked with for some years on the environment committee in the last Parliament.

Simplification and oversimplification are things we have to guard against. I am quite aware of the results of the Léger poll. I think it shows some way to the future that my hon. friend has ignored. It said that 44.4% of the people who responded said the two phrases are equivalent. He is quite right. About one-third of those who would vote yes for separation thought they were equivalent, whereas 55% of those who would vote no said they were equivalent.

We have to continue to work toward a solution, a compromise, something that will work in this country. I supported it as a member of the yes committee in the last attempt in Oxford county. It was not overwhelmingly defeated by everyone outside Quebec. It was a very narrow defeat. People can change. People learn. People develop.

Therefore I would encourage the hon. member not to take it as the final word. That is what we are here to do, to work toward a solution.