John Finlay

[Yukon Act, November 5th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, there are many compelling reasons to support this important legislation and we have heard a number of them this morning. One of the most persuasive is that the bill represents the culmination of many years of hard work based on widespread consultations. It has led to an agreement to transfer federal powers to the Yukon legislature which has a broad base of support in Yukon. What we are doing is moving Yukon closer to full provincial powers so that one day it might become the 11th province.

The bill has taken a lot of consultation and work in the meantime. It is a tribute to the tenacity of the dedicated individuals who gave countless hours to hammer out the details of this devolution transfer agreement, parts of which are implemented in the legislation.

Canadians can be justifiably proud of negotiators representing the governments of Canada and Yukon as well as the Council of Yukon First Nations and other first nations. These people deserve enormous praise for their determination to find a fair and balanced agreement that meets the call by northerners for greater management of their own affairs. This precedent setting piece of legislation stands as a model for other territories and our nation.

We have seen other negotiations on a similar level take many years. Members will recall the Nisga'a agreement and the number of years that took. It went before Queen Victoria and eventually ended up in the House of Commons just two years ago.

People worked on this agreement long and hard. I would like to review for the House the major steps and milestones that have led us to this point. In so doing I remind my hon. colleagues that Bill C-39 reflects the will of the majority of Yukon people.

The earliest stages of this legislation date back to June 1996. At that time the minister of Indian affairs and northern development released a proposal for public consultation to contemplate the devolution of its provincial type responsibilities, programs and services from Canada to the Yukon government. That put in motion a series of consultations with Yukoners who had a stake in Bill C-39. Then DIAND Minister Ron Irwin stated:

We can't go about this haphazardly. I want to ensure that both aboriginal and non-aboriginal interests are protected and that we find solutions that will best address those interests before we develop our final proposal on how this transfer is going to take place.

This commitment to consultations reflects our government's firm belief that decisions must be taken by those who know local conditions and who are best situated to plan for the future, and those who must live with the consequences of these decisions. It also acknowledges that people living in the territory see The Yukon Act as a form of their constitution, something they want to contribute to and take ownership of. As parliamentarians, this is something we should all encourage and respect.

In January 1997 following consultations the federal government presented a comprehensive devolution proposal to transfer the control and management of lands and natural resource responsibilities, including mines, minerals, forestry and inland waters to the Yukon government. In June 1997 the Yukon government leader and the grand chief of the Council of Yukon First Nations conditionally accepted the proposal. However they raised seven issues in a letter to the minister of Indian affairs and northern development.

Following this positive response the federal, territorial and first nations negotiating teams began work to clarify and address these seven issues. The negotiation process included the federal and Yukon governments along with all 14 Yukon first nations and the Kaska Band.

In September 1998 a Yukon devolution protocol accord was signed. It was signed to secure multi-party agreement on a framework that would permit both the first nations' land claims negotiations and the devolution negotiation process to proceed separately but simultaneously, on two tracks, as it were, not together but connected. The accord identified the parties to the negotiation process. It reaffirmed the commitments to proceed with final claims, self-government and programs and services transfer agreement negotiation processes. It provided financial supported for first nations participants.

In February 1999 the federal government, Yukon government and first nations' negotiators reached a set of understandings on key issues. In each step of the process the various drafts of the working documents were shared with government representatives and the affected first nations.

Late in 1999 the Yukon government conducted extensive public consultations on possible amendments to the Yukon Act. Following those consultations, the Yukon government proposed to the federal government a range of amendments to the act. Building on these proposals, legislative changes required to implement aspects of the devolution transfer agreement, as well as necessary changes identified by the federal government, were prepared in draft legislation form by the Department of Justice.

Successive drafts of the bill were shared and discussed with representatives of various parties on a regular basis throughout 2000 and 2001. It goes up to some 26 different drafts in my briefing book. Therefore there was a lot of consultation and work. Multi-party meetings as well as legal reviews of the devolution transfer agreement continued on a regular basis. Comments received from the Yukon government and first nations helped to improve the legislation to ensure it addressed the priorities and concerns of all stakeholders.

As a reflection of the scope and importance of this initiative, in October 2000 the Yukon government recommended resetting the target of devolution to 2003 to facilitate completion of revisions to the Yukon Act, to deal with transitional issues and to allow more time to conclude Yukon first nations' land claims. The negotiations for a devolution transfer agreement were completed in the summer of 2001.

Last August negotiators for the federal government, the Yukon government and the Council of Yukon First Nations initialled the devolution transfer agreement and recommended that the effective date for implementing the devolution transfer agreement be April 1, 2003. There is still work to be done. Concurrent with the transfer agreement negotiations, parties also worked jointly on draft legislation in the form of a new Yukon act. Now we have before us the product of those many months of deliberations.

Clearly this is a bill that captures and reflects the needs and priorities of all Yukoners. The Yukon government, the Government of Canada and the Council of Yukon First Nations have agreed to proceed with an agreement on devolution that addresses the interests of the federal, territorial and first nations in the devolution process.

The devolution negotiations and consultations involve the full participation of the Yukon government and first nations which embody the spirit of partnership that the government laid out in the document “Gathering Strength--Canada's Aboriginal Action Plan”. Bill C-39 would fulfill one of the key objectives of gathering strength, which would be putting power in the hands of the people. Local control over natural resource management in Yukon would mean that decisions would be taken by those most knowledgeable about local conditions and most affected by the consequences of those decisions.

In other words, they would have accountability for what they decide to do, for what goes right and what may not go right. That is exactly how it should be.

I urge my hon. colleagues to now take the necessary next step and pass Bill C-39 to ensure that this thoughtfully and carefully negotiated agreement comes to fruition.

I note that some of our previous speakers from across the House have some suggestions to make, therefore this bill will of course go to committee I hope today. I would like to make a few comments of a personal nature.

My colleague from Edmonton North lamented that she had only spent two or three days in Yukon. I have not spent years in Yukon, but fortunately I spent a few more days than that. Last summer I travelled from Skagway to Whitehorse to Dawson City on the White Pass and Whitehorse railways. I have been down the inside passage on a cruise. As my friend from Sackville--Musquodoboit Valley--Eastern Shore pointed out, Yukon is a very picturesque and exciting place with the second highest mountain in Canada, and so on.

It also has some other things of great interest to me. One is the poet, Robert Service of Yukon. Many people think that Robert Service was a sourdough and that he went on the gold rush in 1898. That is not true. I think he did not get to Dawson City or Yukon until 1908. He was 10 years late for the gold rush. However, he certainly picked up on the people of the area. He wrote:

There are strange things done in the midnight sun By the men who moil for gold;

The arctic trails have their strange tales That would make your blood run cold;

The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, But the queerest they ever did see

Was that night on the marsh of Lake Leberge I cremated Sam McGee

Another one everyone will know is:

A bunch of the boys were whooping it up in the Malamute Saloon;...

When out of the dark...and into the din glare,... stumbled a miner...dog-dirty, and loaded for bear...

We could go on, but the songs of the sourdough speak of the spirit of Yukon and of the gold rush.

I come from Oxford County, which of course is a little borough of county between London, Kitchener-Waterloo and Brantford. We have a strong connection with Yukon. I know that my friend from across the hall will appreciate this.

Colonel Joe Boyle grew up in Woodstock. Colonel Joe Boyle was an adventurer. He played the horses. He went to sea when he was 14. His parental home in Woodstock, which was called “The Firs”, was there until a few years ago. It was a very lovely home near Dundas Street.

Joe Boyle went off to the gold rush in Yukon. He ended up making a lot of money. He had several of those large hydraulic rigs that shot water at the gravel face along the creeks which pick up the stones and gravel and sort out the gold. It saved having to pan it. He made a lot of money before the first world war. He outfitted a machine gun battery with his own money. He made himself his own uniform. The insignia, which the Yukon corps of machine gunners wore on their shoulders, was Yukon gold.

The colonel dubbed himself colonel and swashbuckled his way to France with his machine gun company. Since he could pay for all this, which he did, he got away with it.

Toward the end of the war, he went to Romania and met the princess. He was instrumental in going to Moscow and getting the Romanian crown jewels out of the vault. The Russians had taken them there for safekeeping. It was a James Bond adventure. Joe Boyle died in England and the monarch of Romania sent a Romanian eastern orthodox cross to go on his grave.

A good friend of mine, by the name of Ed Bennett, who knew the history and who was at Dieppe, felt we should get Colonel Boyle home. With the help of the Canadian government some 10 years ago, his body was exhumed in England, brought to Woodstock where he was buried, and the Romanian cross was placed on his grave; a very impressive tombstone. That is our connection with Yukon. It is an important connection and gives us some kinship with the people of Yukon. I applaud the House and all parties for supporting the bill.

[Nunavut Waters and Nunavut Surface Rights Tribunal Act, November 2nd, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak to the bill at third reading because it is of very great importance to the people of Nunavut. It establishes the water board and land surface rights tribunal as institutions of public government. This is another step along the way from where the land agreements at Nunavut ended and where full territorial public government is envisaged.

The legislation is not new in that the bill contains provisions that mirror provisions of the Northwest Territories Waters Act, the Yukon Waters Act, the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act and other acts that have gradually devolved the ownership and responsibility for governance in the territories to the people of the territories.

The bill recognizes special rights for the Inuit concerning water in, on or flowing through their land as outlined in the agreement. It also prohibits the board from issuing, amending or renewing a water licence or a licence for the deposit of waste that may substantially affect the quality, quantity or flow of waters through Inuit owned land unless appropriate compensation for any adverse effects has been determined in advance.

The proposed bill complies with the other terms of the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement. It authorizes the board to approve all water use and deposits of waste in Nunavut. It provides that the Inuit nominate four members of the water board, which is half.

It requires that the Inuktitut language be used by the board when requested. It requires the board to give due regard to Inuit culture, customs and knowledge in designing its rules of procedure and in setting out the factors that the board must consider in determining appropriate compensation when an approved project or activity may substantially affect water quality, quantity or flow.

It establishes the following water management functions that were not covered by the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement but were contained in the existing Northwest Territories Waters Act. For some years since the water board was established, these rules have been unclear and some difficulties in administration have appeared.

The bill indicates clearly the role of the minister and governor in council in licensing, in water planning, in the scope of conditions to be attached to any licence and who, other than the Inuit, is entitled to compensation.

It provides for inspection and enforcement. It provides a process for the appeal of licensing decisions. It should be noted that no additional resources are required to implement the above functions. They have all been carried out by the board in the interim.

The bill also recognizes that the water board must work closely with the Nunavut Planning Commission in the development of land use plans as they concern water. It must also liaise with the Nunavut Impact Review Board in assessing environmental and socioeconomic impacts of water related projects.

The hearings and operations of the board are open to the public for the registry of applications and written rulings are made available.

As I said at the beginning, this is a step forward in self-government for the territory of Nunavut. On behalf of the minister I want to thank the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs, Northern Development and Natural Resources for dealing with the bill so expeditiously over the past two or three weeks.

I want to give credit to the chairperson of that committee and particularly to the hon. member for Nunavut who serves on that committee with a number of other hon. members. We are all pleased to present the bill at third reading and hope that it will have speedy passage through the House this morning.

[Claim Settlements (Alberta and Saskatchewan) Implementation Act, October 22nd, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, the general answer is yes. Those services must be paid for, agreed to and provided on a willing basis. Otherwise DIAND has to step in and do something, as it has had to do in a number of areas. The member has made a very good point. In Saskatchewan right now I understand that is allowed and there is an agreement in place to compensate the municipality for the loss of that tax revenue.

[Claim Settlements (Alberta and Saskatchewan) Implementation Act, October 22nd, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I understand that is already covered in the legislation in Alberta and Saskatchewan. They would be a third party and have an interest in the land. Therefore, it would have to be agreed to.

[Claim Settlements (Alberta and Saskatchewan) Implementation Act, October 22nd, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I rise to address the House on Bill C-37, the claim settlements (Alberta and Saskatchewan) implementation act.

I join the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development in urging hon. members to recognize the merits of the legislation and to help us move it quickly through the legislative process. As the hon. member for Yukon mentioned, that means the committee. We are looking forward to getting it as soon as possible.

I, too, feel that it is an essential bill that would help very much in the recognition and respect for which our native people are looking and also in the economic development in which they want to partake.

As the minister made clear this morning, the bill addresses a number of commitments and goals consistent with the government's aboriginal agenda. It would affirm and honour treaties which are a cornerstone of Canada's relationships with aboriginal people. It would help foster economic development in first nations communities throughout Alberta and Saskatchewan so that the communities can become more self-sufficient and sustainable.

Mr. Speaker, there are a number of areas in your riding and mine, and in the ridings of many members on both sides of the House, that would benefit from extension of the act to all provinces. That may be something we will see within a short space of time.

It would facilitate the process by which Canada is living up to its commitments to the first nations people. It would accomplish all this primarily by ensuring that better means exist to recognize and accommodate third party interests in lands selected for additions to reserves in Alberta and Saskatchewan. In other words, the powers being accorded first nations under the proposed legislation do not come at the expense of any individual, business, institution or government, and that is often the sticking point in some of our negotiations.

In fact, the opposite is true. Bill C-37 would provide the certainty of tenure that third parties with existing interests need. The minister has stated that this is truly a win-win situation for the current backlog of current reserve expansion commitments in Alberta and Saskatchewan. At the present time there is close to a million hectares, which is 2.5 million acres, of land being considered for this very purpose.

It is a good solution for first nations because the pre-reserve designation and permit granting powers provided for under the legislation would allow them to select and acquire the best lands available, regardless of encumbrances, instead of taking what is left over and the worst lands available.

First nations would be able to enter into better agreements with third parties and more quickly which means that the economic benefits of land ownership will flow to communities sooner rather than later.

However, developers, investors and others who have third party interests in lands selected by first nations to fulfill a treaty land entitlement or specific claims agreement, would also benefit from the commercial certainty provided by Bill C-37.

I want to focus on the issue of accommodating third party interests for two reasons: first, it has been the main stumbling block to moving more quickly in meeting Canada's reserve expansion commitments in Alberta and Saskatchewan; and second, I know the protection of third party interests is an important consideration for hon. members on all sides of the House.

The minister has advised us that Canada currently has a commitment to add a million hectares. More such commitments will be made as additional claims are settled.

Land to fulfill these commitments is typically contributed from unoccupied federal or provincial crown lands. Alternatively the land may be purchased by the first nations on a willing seller, willing buyer basis. Herein lies the problem: the vast majority of land being selected by first nations for additions to reserves has existing third party interest.

These interests may range from rights of way and hydro line easements to mineral permits and leases, timber licences, commercial and residential leaseholds for tourism, recreation, vacations, et cetera.

Regardless of the nature of the interest, it must be accommodating in some way that is satisfactory to all parties: Canada, the first nation and the interest holder. This is one of the key issues that must be addressed under the federal additions to reserves process.

Unfortunately, as we have heard already, with the exception of the recently enacted Manitoba Claim Settlements Implementation Act and the 1993 Saskatchewan Treaty Land Entitlement Act, existing federal laws were not designed with the requirements of the additions to reserves process in mind. In other words, they are not geared to accommodate third party interest in a way that is either commercially certain or commercially expeditious.

Under the current provisions of the Indian Act, for example, a first nation can only consent to the creation of interest on reserve land if the land is already part of the reserve. This does not include land that is being merely proposed for reserve status. Of course first nations, like any land owner, can grant leases on land they own privately, but if a first nation wanted to transfer such land to Canada to be made into a reserve, any third party interests on the land could not legally be carried forward. They would have to be terminated and then reinstituted.

Land must exist as reserve land before leases or any other third party interests can be voted on by the membership of the first nation.

What this means is that a third party must surrender its interest in land, even if only temporarily, before the land can be added to a reserve. In exchange, the first nation at present is only able to offer the promise or undertaking that it will vote to re-grant that interest once the reserve is created. At the snail's pace that some negotiations move, that could be a long wait and someone might lose interest.

Most interest holders are understandably reluctant to do this because it puts their future rights at risk. As a result, the addition to reserve may be effectively stalemated and the affected first nation may have to abandon its preferred choice of land and accept land that has far less development potential.

Manitoba first nations have been released from this cumbersome process under the Manitoba Claim Settlements Implementation Act, providing the additions to reserves commitment arises out of a land claim settlement. The situation has also been addressed to some extent in Saskatchewan where the Saskatchewan Treaty Land Entitlement Act of 1993 allows first nations to consent to the granting of interest on lands that do not yet have reserve status.

However experience since 1993 has taught us that this power under the Saskatchewan Treaty Land Entitlement Act has not proven as advantageous as it could have been since it is limited to the granting of existing interest. It can only be used in treaty land entitlement situations, not in specific claim situations, and it can be only used when the first nation has already purchased the land.

Such limitations have been avoided in the wording of both the Manitoba Claim Settlements Implementation Act and the provisions of the present bill.

Bill C-37 would essentially extend the pre-designation powers now available in Manitoba to first nations in Alberta and Saskatchewan. Under this proposed legislation, a first nation will be able to consent to a third party land interest either existing or new during the reserve expansion process and indeed even before purchasing the land itself. In this way first nations will be free to then purchase the land knowing the encumbrances have been settled in advance and where they will not present a hurdle to reserve designation.

To achieve this, Bill C-37 borrows from a variety of existing federal legal mechanisms for granting third party interests but adjusts each in minor ways to facilitate their use when applied to additions to reserves. The effect will be to provide first nations and third parties with commercial certainty in their deal making while land is being processed as reserve land.

This new approach will help avoid situations where the first nation is forced to negotiate the buy-out and closure of an ongoing viable operation simply to clear the land of encumbrances, thereby forgoing any future revenues that might have been derived in terms of royalties or rents, or the holder of that third party interest is asked to risk temporarily surrendering that interest while a parcel of land is being processed into reserve status.

The bill will give developers and investors, both existing and potential, the assurances they need to enter into agreements with first nations. At the end of the day, both parties, the first nations community and the holder of the interest, will benefit from these business arrangements.

Hon. members can appreciate that these proposed changes are designed to make the additions to reserves process as smooth and simple as possible for all parties in Alberta and Saskatchewan. Bill C-37 will put real estate transactions related to reserve expansions on a level playing field with non-reserve transactions in these two provinces. At the same time it will provide clear-cut legal mechanisms for protecting third party interests in land selected for addition to a reserve.

Having said that, it is important to acknowledge that the first nations with claim settlement agreements in Alberta and Saskatchewan will not automatically be bound by this new legislation. First nations will have complete flexibility in deciding whether to opt into these provisions.

I assure hon. members that Bill C-37 will not impose any additional restrictions or requirements on land owners or third party interest holders. No land owner will be forced to sell property to a first nation to fulfill a claims settlement agreement nor will a third party interest holder be forced to enter into agreements with first nations. Both these types of transactions will continue to take place on the basis of a willing buyer and a willing seller. The bill simply allows agreements to be put in place where both parties desire it.

This is clearly a good piece of legislation. It will protect third parties while giving way for new partnerships with aboriginal communities. It deserves the support of hon. members and I urge them to join me in voting to send Bill C-37 to committee for review.

[Agriculture, September 27th, 2001]

Madam Chairman, there is no question the drought this past year was one of the worst this country has seen in the past four decades. There is no question that members of the House have their own stories from people back home in their ridings about how the drought has affected them.

There is no question either that the federal government has the mechanisms in place to help those in need, to assist those the drought has affected and to support our farmers.

Farming is one of those businesses where we depend on so many variables: the market, the technology, last year's crop, this year's crop and of course the weather. We can put marketing boards in place, we can invest in innovative new products and technologies and we can expand our markets at home and abroad, but there is one thing no government can control and that is the weather. We wish we could control it but we cannot.

In order to plan for the uncertainties in farming, like disease, too much rain or, in some areas this year including my county, drought, the federal government has worked hard with the provinces and producers to design safety net programs that respond to the various needs of farmers across the country to help them get through difficult and unforeseen situations.

In July of last year, as we have already heard, the federal and provincial ministers of agriculture signed a more flexible safety net agreement designed to stabilize farm income as much as possible. This safety net package provides $5.5 billion over three years, through to 2002, in support of farm income stabilization. It supports the net income stabilization account, NISA. It supports fall cash advances, crop insurance and companion programs. There is also an element for income disaster assistance and spring cash advances.

NISA, crop insurance and the Canadian farm income program, or CFIP, are all ongoing programs specifically designed to provide financial assistance to producers when they are faced with low incomes due to circumstances beyond their control.

There is currently about $3.2 billion in NISA accounts with approximately $1.3 billion of that available for immediate withdrawal. Farmers deposit money to their NISA accounts and that deposit is matched by the government. This program is designed to help producers achieve long term farm income stability on an individual basis. As the NISA accounts grow, farmers can make withdrawals in lower income years from the funds they have set aside.

The new Canadian farm income program provides up to $600 million to farmers across Canada for the year 2000. In provinces where the federal government delivers a program and in the province of Alberta, producers who have been affected by drought can apply now to CFIP for an interim payment for 2001. In areas across the country where the federal government delivers the CFIP interim payments, we can respond to a completed application in 30 days.

Crop insurance premiums hit a record low this year, both in terms of the premium cost and the producer paid portion of the premiums. Federal and provincial governments pay about 66% of total premium costs, while the producer pays the remaining 33%, which is on average about $2,000 per year. The number of crops, the total acreage, the number of farmers with crop insurance and the value of product covered by insurance this year are all at record high levels, which indicates pretty clearly that farmers are taking advantage of everything they can in order to maintain their position.

These three programs address different aspects of farm income. They allow the government to contribute to farmers' incomes in areas where they need it the most, whether that is crop insurance or a crop failure, an account to boost farmers' incomes in lean years with NISA or targeted assistance to producers who have experienced a sudden and severe drop in farming income for reasons beyond their control.

Drought is a natural phenomenon. It cannot be prevented. We can however increase our ability to withstand the impact of drought by implementing sound water and land management practices. The Prairie Farm Rehabilitation Administration, funded by Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, has a rural water development program that provides technical assistance and $5.5 million a year for secure water supply development in agricultural and rural areas in Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta and northern British Columbia.

Initiatives such as these, combined with a solid safety net practice, ensure that we can face these issues with the knowledge we have measures in place that will work for producers all across Canada.

[George Leslie Mackay, June 6th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, on June 2 a heritage plaque was unveiled in Embro, Ontario, marking the 100th anniversary of the death of the Reverend George Leslie MacKay, a renowned Presbyterian missionary who hailed from Zorra township in my riding of Oxford.

In 1872 Reverend MacKay founded the first Canadian overseas mission in Tamsui, Taiwan. Until his death, he served the needs of the people of northern Taiwan in many ways. He trained the local clergy while ministering to members of the 60 churches that he established. He also founded a hospital and several schools, including Tamsui Oxford College. The first school was built with funds MacKay raised during his first furlough home to Oxford in 1881.

Today George Leslie MacKay remains a national hero in Taiwan. As we honour his memory, it is my hope that future generations of Oxford residents will learn more about the extraordinary accomplishments of this exceptional man.

[Oxford Children's Groundwater Festival, May 31st, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, this week over 3,100 elementary school students will converge on Pittock conservation area in my riding of Oxford. They are taking part in the Oxford Children's Groundwater Festival. As one of the original organizers of this event, I was very pleased to be present during the opening day festivities on Monday.

Through over 40 hands on activity centres, these students are having enormous fun while gaining insight into the vital role that water plays in our lives. They are learning about the water cycle and the importance of conserving and protecting our water resources.

In light of the recent tragic events in Walkerton and North Battleford, it is particularly important to teach our children respect for their environment and the clean water that sustains us.

I ask my colleagues to join me in congratulating the festival sponsors, organizers and 400 volunteers for making this wonderful event possible.

[Aboriginal Affairs, May 18th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, this is exactly what the effort at governance is to do.

The Indian Act encroaches upon normal operations of reserves, of the chiefs and of the administrators, the people elected to do the work. What we need to do is give them more responsibility and more range so they may make the decisions that are best for them with respect to economic development, education and so on. With some co-operation, we look forward to advancing the whole business of governance.

[Aboriginal Affairs, May 18th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, the member is misinformed. He is dealing with one statement that this would happen over the summer as if that was the end of it.

This will take two and a half years. We will consult with the chiefs. We will consult with people on reserves. We will consult with the people involved in the difficulties of management among our first nations.