Martin Cauchon

[Auditor General's Report, December 4th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, as I said yesterday, the numbers are known by the population.

The question raised by the Auditor General is basically a question of reporting: the way we should report to be accountable to the population. Numbers were known, whether through Justice Canada or other stakeholders that are involved in the program delivery and administering.

As I said yesterday, we accept the recommendations of the Auditor General. Indeed, are we concerned? Yes, we are concerned and we will fix the problems.

[Firearms Registry, December 3rd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, we all know that the costs related to the program have started to go down.

With regard to the database, the RCMP is fully aware of the situation. It has been very proactive. Of course when we are talking about the quality of the database we are talking as well about the numbers.

Let me say exactly what we are talking about. It is to increase safety in our society and to have safer communities. We have started to see the benefits from this. For example, if we compared the homicide rate using firearms in the United States and in Canada, it is six to nine times higher in the United States.

[Firearms Registry, December 3rd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, as I have said many times, we have reported through the main estimates the costs of the gun registry. As I said, it was not reported in a format to the satisfaction of the Auditor General.

As I said many times as well and as I would like to repeat, in the future we will make sure to report in a format that is accepted by the Auditor General, meaning that we have to report for all the other ministries involved in the delivery of the programs.

It does not mean that those numbers were not reported. Those numbers were reported for Justice Canada through the main estimates or the supplementary estimates of the other departments.

[Firearms Registry, December 3rd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, the RCMP is aware of the concern about the databases. It has been acting on that. It has been very proactive. Of course we have to understand that the quality of the databases is directly linked to the question of technology. I am told that it has improved the system and it will keep doing that.

Look at what the registration system means. It means fewer firearms on the black market from break-ins. It reduces the unauthorized use of guns. It reduces heat of the moment use of firearms. It also reduces accidents, particularly involving children. These are not my words. These are the words of David Griffin, who represents 28,000--

[Firearms Registry, December 3rd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, if we read the report of the Auditor General it seems clear to me that there is no wrongdoing at all. We have been facing what we call cost escalations and, as I said, it is because of the consultation process. As well, some provinces have opted out, and we have been facing a challenge in terms of technology.

If we look at the stats, for example, we will see that police agencies are accessing the firearms online registry 1,500 times daily. More than 7,000 firearms licences have been refused or revoked since the law came into effect. The--

[Firearms Registry, December 3rd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, this is the first time that we were proceeding with such a program with regard to firearms. It has been a complex program. We started the infrastructure from scratch and we have been facing cost escalations.

For example, we went through a consultation process. We had to adjust the program based on the consultation. Some provinces opted out as well. We have been facing another challenge in terms of technology, but having said that, we are starting to see the benefits of the program. At this moment we are firmly committed--

[Firearms Registry, December 3rd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, it is a question of accountability. Based on the charter of the program the justice department is accountable, not just for the justice department, but all other departments as well. We will ensure to do an audit, which has been demanded last November. We will be able to come forward with our books in a format that the Auditor General would like to have.

As I said, could we do better? Yes, we can do better, but we must also look at the benefit to society. When we look at the stats they actually show the benefits to society. We have a more secure society and we will keep going--

[Firearms Registry, December 3rd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, what has been mentioned is simply not true. All the numbers regarding the gun control registry have been reported through Justice Canada and have been reported as well through other ministries that are involved in the program delivery.

There was some discussion regarding the way we should report, the justice department being the single point of accountability. It is more than a coordinating body. Therefore, in the future we will ensure that the report will be in the estimates, not only for Justice Canada but for all the other stakeholders involved in taking good--

[Firearms Registry, December 3rd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, we totally accept the Auditor General's recommendations. It is sound policy. The question is could we do more, could we do better? Yes, we can do better. We are firmly committed to do so.

With regard to the process, of course, there was a question of accountability and the question of the interpretation of the charter given to the justice department. We intend to ensure that in the future, in the main estimates, we provide Canadians with all the total numbers including those of other departments.

[Kyoto Protocol, December 3rd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General today tabled her report regarding the question of the gun registry. I totally accept her recommendations. We are committed to accountability and we will do our very best to answer her recommendations.

Having said that, what will we do now with the policy? On this side of the House we are strongly committed to the policy which is a sound policy and we will keep proceeding with the policy. At the moment we are starting to see the benefit of it and we are firmly committed more than before.