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Crucial Fact

  • Her favourite word was justice.

Last in Parliament May 2004, as Bloc MP for Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert (Québec)

Won her last election, in 2000, with 44% of the vote.

Statements in the House

Bill C-44 November 2nd, 1998

Mr. Speaker, with Bill C-44, the federal government is trying to put the chairman of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation on an ejection seat. According to the President of the Treasury Board, however, there is no such threat in there since the independence of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation is recognized in the act.

If what the President of the Treasury Board says is right, how can he explain that the last three CEOs of the CBC and 21 well-known journalists are saying they are very concerned about the provisions of Bill C-44?

Division No. 247 October 27th, 1998

Mr. Speaker, Hallowe'en is being celebrated on the weekend, and the government will again try to scare people with its Bill C-43. No doubt Quebeckers will be shaking at the prospect of the Department of National Revenue transforming itself into a semi autonomous government agency.

Why will they be shaking? The President of the Treasury Board gave us part of the answer in the House. “No one likes paying taxes”, he said. Obviously, no one likes paying taxes when they get nothing for their money. Obviously no one likes paying taxes when we are deprived of the health care services our taxes are supposed to pay for. Obviously no one wants to pay taxes, when assistance to fishers, farmers and the unemployed is being cut.

This is why people are afraid. They know that the government does not provide the services they are entitled to through their taxes. They are afraid because the money they are paying in taxes will now be collected by another monster, the Canada customs and revenue agency.

The Bloc Quebecois totally disagrees with the bill. One of the most important prerogatives of modern government is the power to tax. Thanks to this power, Canada collects money from taxpayers that they worked hard to earn. It is unthinkable that this power will be put in the hands of a semi autonomous agency that is not under the direct control of the government.

The minister has said there will be less overlap between the federal and provincial governments with the bill. That is not reassuring; it causes concern. The fact there is no more encroachment is because the government will not be collecting income tax anymore, the agency will.

On the other hand, it is common knowledge that we are in favour of an end to overlap. The Bloc has long wanted an end to such overlap between the federal and the provincial governments. The solution is simple: combine all tax collection activities within Revenue Quebec.

Bill C-43 means savings, we are told. We have our doubts. The government is going to create a quasi-autonomous agency that will be entrusted with billions of dollars, and the agency's managers will not be subject to any pay controls. In today's economy, with the directors of banks and financial concerns often voting themselves outlandish salaries, we wonder about the size of the salary bill taxpayers will have to foot for the agency's managers.

The very status of the agency will allow senior managers to pay themselves salaries comparable to those of CEOs in the private sector. Will the agency's commissioner, who will have hundreds of thousands of people reporting to him and a budget in the billions, demand a salary on a par with that of the chairman of the Royal Bank? Will the agency's commissioner have millions of dollars in annual income? These are some of the questions we have.

Will these managers be more motivated as employees of the new agency than they are right now? We read in Le Devoir this morning that Pierre Sigouin, assistant director of the Customs and Excise information division, claims to have lost all motivation over the last four years.

Mr. Sigouin took paid sick leave to co-ordinate the election campaign of Pierre Bourque, the mayor of Montreal, who is running for re-election. Apparently, it is unmotivating to work for this government. Is this the reason the government has decided to create independent agencies such as the Canada customs and revenue agency?

It is obvious what the government is up to. It will at last be able to shift the blame for tax collection problems. Those who had too much tax deducted will be told it is not the department's problem and referred to the agency.

It is all very fine and well for the minister to say he will retain some control over the agency. The bill contains provisions that make the agency relatively autonomous. It will therefore be possible for the minister to authorize the commissioner or any person employed or engaged by the agency to exercise or perform on his behalf any of his powers, duties or functions under any act of parliament, with the exception of making regulations.

The Canada customs and revenue agency will be run by a super-bureaucrat who will not be accountable to parliament. While accountability is essential to our democracy, this principle is increasingly left out of the current political scene by this government.

The bill will make it impossible to criticize the administration of an organization performing a function that the very existence of the state depends on. This is especially worrisome since it follows a trend of political patronage.

Under clauses 15, 22 and 25 of the bill, there will be a board of directors of 12 members appointed for three years on the recommendation of the provinces, but holding office only on a part time basis. Three other directors, that is the chair of the board, the commissioner and the deputy commissioner, will be appointed by the governor in council for a term of five years.

Once again, we will be witness to the political appointments made by a government that sacrifices competence to give jobs to political friends.

It is to be feared that the decisions made by politically appointed senior officials with a free hand for action would be prejudicial to taxpayers.

Members will recall that less than three years ago, the auditor general revealed a scandal that we in the Bloc Quebecois had condemned in the 1993 election campaign: the family trust scandal.

The auditor general had revealed that, at around midnight on December 23, 1991, some senior officials of Revenue Canada, Finance and Justice decided, without even asking their ministers, to transfer two family trusts worth $2 billion to the United States without collecting a single cent in Canadian tax.

If the mandarins of Revenue, Finance and Justice could do so under the present circumstances, imagine what things will be like when there is this customs and revenue agency they are trying to set up, which will be quasi-independent and not answerable to Parliament.

How many similar cases will be swept under the rug, without Parliament even knowing about them, cases of scandalous decisions by senior mandarins who will now be in control of tax collection as well as of all the confidential data banks on Quebeckers and Canadians? It makes no sense whatsoever to delegate so much to a new class of super-bureaucrats.

It goes without saying too that creation of this agency will considerably weaken the Department of Revenue. Once the agency is created, the Minister will have an overall business plan submitted to him, one to which he will have made little, if any, contribution. He will be confronted more or less with a fait accompli. They will be dictating to the minister what he has to do.

The bill will set up an agency that will be virtually independent of the government and will centralize the power to collect taxes. The government is on the wrong track here. The provinces are calling for more control over the administrative powers that affect them, and the government is pulling the rug out from under them and rejecting their demands.

This bill augurs nothing good for the taxpayers of Quebec and of Canada, and the Bloc Quebecois will be voting against this Halloween horror of a bill.

Bill C-44 October 26th, 1998

Mr. Speaker, the President of the Treasury Board told the House, in reference to Bill C-44, that the administrators of cultural organizations are appointed at the government's pleasure.

Does the minister mean that public organizations will be under the government's direction, under the yoke of the party in office and, ultimately, under the authority of a temperamental minister?

Bill C-44 October 22nd, 1998

Mr. Speaker, while it is increasingly obvious that the Liberal government is trying to crush any and all opposition in Canada, the very idea of making CBC director positions liable to dismissal is disquieting, to say the least.

Given the protests against Bill C-44, the result of which will be to convert the public broadcaster into a state broadcaster, by two past presidents of the CBC, as well as the current one, and more than 20 Canadian reporters, when will the Prime Minister withdraw his Bill C-44?

Supply September 22nd, 1998

Mr. Speaker, since the minister did not answer my second question, I would like to put the same question to the hon. member for Waterloo—Wellington and ask him what this $350 million tab he referred to is all about, as this seems to be how much it would cost to implement this firearm registration system. Is that right? I would really like to get an answer on this today. If this amount is accurate, then the public must be made aware of the costs involved. And how did they get to be so high?

I would also like to know whether this high tab would eventually make the system impossible to implement and result in Quebeckers being told “Sorry, but unfortunately the system was too expensive to be implemented.” Is this a roundabout way to avoid enforcing the legislation?

Supply September 22nd, 1998

Mr. Speaker, I myself am a firearm owner as well as a big-game hunter. I mention this because, unfortunately, there are still a few men who wonder what my involvement is in the debate on this issue, and I have been involved for a number of years. When I sat on the special committee on firearms in 1990, I was the only committee member with a FAC, or firearm acquisition certificate.

My first question to the minister is this: Why does the government let those opposed to gun control spread all sorts of falsehoods?

Yesterday, for instance, I tuned in to an open-line program on an English-language station. The caller was saying “This means I will have to pay $10 per firearm every year; it is going to cost me $60 a year for a permit.” As you and I know, this is absolutely false. Once the firearms are registered, that is for life. As for the permit, it is good for five years. Why are all these falsehoods still being spread?

My second question to the minister concerns the $350 million tab we are hearing about. I would like to know, first of all, if we will indeed have to pay such a tab and, second, how it got to be so high. If this is not true, I think that a public denial is in order.

I would like the minister to clarify this for us today.

Pay Equity September 21st, 1998

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

After agreeing in writing on June 11, 1993 to honour the decision of the Human Rights Tribunal on pay equity, the government is now not only not honouring its decision, it has announced it will appeal it.

Is the Prime Minister not ashamed of once again going back on his word?

Canadian Armed Forces May 25th, 1998

Mr. Speaker, day after day, we hear stories of women in the Canadian armed forces who were raped, sexually mistreated or sexually harassed.

The response of the Minister of National Defence is as follows, and I quote “I have no statistical information that would indicate that the problem is more serious in the armed forces than in the rest of Canadian society”.

Are we to understand from this irresponsible statement that the minister views rape, sexual mistreatment and sexual harassment in the armed forces as acceptable, as long as they stay within the national average?

National Defence Act March 19th, 1998

Mr. Speaker, I must say first that Bill C-25 is not only sizeable, but also ambitious. It is ambitious because it seeks to change our military justice system. For those who followed the work of the commission of inquiry into the deployment of Canadian forces to Somalia, we know very well that the present system has serious problems that deserve some special attention.

The Bloc Quebecois is among those who believe that the role of members of Parliament in defence issues must be reinforced. This does not mean that we must play a huge role overseeing the conduct and business of the military, but that we must oversee them in such a way as to break down the walls of national defence and the Canadian armed forces, in the best interests of people in Quebec and Canada.

To be more effective in our role, we should have access to reports produced by non-political, independent organizations, such as those prepared by the auditor general. This is why, as the Létourneau commission recommended, we believe that an inspector general, working independently from the Canadian forces and accountable to Parliament, would ensure a fair, neutral and balanced analysis of the activities of the military, which the present bill will never be able to do.

As the Létourneau commission stated in its report “There is evidence that Canadians and members of the CF want a review process that is straightforward and independent. We also believe that a civilian inspector general, properly supported and directly responsible to Parliament, must form an essential part of the mechanism Canadians use to oversee and control the Canadian Forces”.

Even if soldiers give up some of their rights when they join the army, they still expect to be treated fairly. During the Létourneau commission, some soldiers complained that their commanding officers were often insensitive to their concerns and that those who dared to complain faced informal retaliation or even put their careers in jeopardy. The members of the armed forces who feel the need to complain are faced with a dilemma: to suffer in silence or to fight the system and deal with the consequences.

The creation of an office of the inspector general would unquestionably meet the need for a fairer complaint processing mechanism. Instead of implementing the recommendation of the Létourneau commission and in order to really confuse the public and give the impression that he was agreeing to some kind of inspection, the Minister of National Defence chose to set up a review committee made up of eight distinguished Canadians.

These people will review the implementation of announced changes within the department and the armed forces. However, they will not have anything to say about the conduct of the armed forces.

According to the minister, these eight distinguished people will serve as a window for Canadians, a window that will be closed in two years since the mandate of the review committee does not extend beyond that period.

What will we be left with in the end? Simply a few annual reports here and there to meet accountability requirements. In short, we will not know anything more about the important things that will continue to go on in this galaxy.

Like the Létourneau commission, we agree with the idea of appointing an inspector general of defence, who would be responsible for conducting investigations not only on the way the military justice system works, but also on any other aspect of national defence that he or she would deem appropriate.

Any member of the Canadian Forces and any employee of the Department of National Defence could contact the inspector general directly for any reason without having to obtain prior authorization from anybody else within the Canadian Forces or the Department of National Defence.

We know that, right now, civil employees of the department are worried about the proposal to privatize services within the Canadian Forces and the possible consequences of such a decision in terms of job security.

At the Longue-Pointe garrison, in Montreal's east end, it seems that the privatization process could result in the loss of 250 civilian and 150 military jobs. The same goes for the Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu garrison, where 300 jobs could disappear.

The inspector general would be the most appropriate authority to review any privatization of services by the Department of National Defence. An inspector general could address the individual or general problems of all DND and Canadian Forces personnel without these people having to fear some form of punishment.

To be able to express oneself freely without fear of retaliation is fundamental to anyone who wants to expose a delicate situation. Therefore, a member of the military should not be required to indicate to his or her superior that he or she is filing a complaint, especially if the complaint is against the superior.

Inspections, checks, investigations or reports following a complaint by a member of the military should not give any indication whatsoever of the complainant's identity.

The threat of reprisal is not an imaginary concern. The hearings conducted by the Létourneau commission revealed that some members of the military had been threatened and badgered for their part in the commission's work.

Corporal Purnelle and Major Armstrong were among them. The latter, in fact, required physical protection while in Somalia after he had made serious allegations of misconduct to his commanding officers.

By refusing to follow through with a proposal to create a position of inspector general, the defence minister is clearly showing that the armed forces do not intend to clean up their act and instead are determined to keep on operating in isolation.

To justify his rejection of an independent review body, the minister said in the fall that the position of inspector general would cloud his authority before Parliament. It would make the responsibilities and accountability of the chief of the Defence staff and the deputy minister ambiguous.

The minister even said that the high command did not want an inspector general constantly looking over their shoulder. However, the civil authorities have the duty to look over the shoulder of the military.

Why are the defence minister and the Canadian armed forces afraid of an institution which has a proven track record in the United States, and with which the American armed forces get along well?

It is the whole concept of accountability that is at stake. And by refusing to allow an independent control, the minister is reinforcing the idea that the government and the military are accountable to no one.

With regard to the minister's promise to create an ombudsman position, something the military personnel are still waiting for, we must be clear. This position is not the same thing at all as an office of the inspector general. While the function of the ombudsman, or ombudswoman, if you will, is generally limited to receiving grievances and making recommendations in this regard, the inspector general would have wide ranging inspection, control, inquiry and assistance functions. The functions of the inspector would include those of the ombudsman.

Thus, as was recommended by the Létourneau commission, these two functions should be brought together and carried out by a single entity, that is the office of the inspector general.

Finally, if the national defence minister had really wanted to ensure greater openness in the military justice system, he would have supported the establishment of the position of inspector general. This would have indicated a clear willingness to make changes. So we can forget about openness.

As I mentioned a little earlier, the minister also stated, in his response to the recommendations of the Létourneau commission, that the implementation of the changes to the National Defence Act would increase the fairness and effectiveness of the military justice system.

We, in the Bloc Quebecois, believe that all military personnel must be treated fairly. They must, like any other Canadian citizen, be able to benefit from the constitutional guarantees provided by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. As the Létourneau commission said, the military justice system should follow the civil justice system, except when there are clear reasons to depart from it.

Therefore, the question we must now ask ourselves is this: will the changes brought about by the bill ensure, as the defence minister is claiming, fairness in the military justice system?

In Canada, this system is administered according to two main types of procedures, namely the summary trial and the court martial. Summary trials are aimed at dealing with minor military offences. This type of trial is at the heart of the military justice system, since more than 90% of all offences committed by members of the armed forces are only heard summarily.

Usually, summary trials are presided by commanding officers. The purpose of such trials is to deal quickly with disciplinary offences within the unit and to send the offender back to his or her unit as soon as possible. We understand that the goal to keep order and discipline within the armed forces somehow justifies the summary nature of this type of trial.

However, during the hearings of the Special Advisory Group on Military Justice, chaired by former Chief Justice of the Supreme Court Brian Dickson, several members of the armed forces criticized the summary trial system of justice and even questioned its legitimacy, since it violates some of the fundamental rights guaranteed under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

The right to counsel and the right to be tried by an independent and impartial tribunal are both being violated. In that respect, this bill provides for minor changes to the summary trial process and appears to reinforce its constitutional validity.

In particular, the bill now prevents commanding officers from presiding at summary trials in which they are involved. Also, the accused person can have access to a lawyer before electing to be tried by court martial or by summary trial.

This does not mean that the accused has the right to counsel, only that he or she can consult with a lawyer. It is true that the commanding officer has the discretionary power to allow the accused to have access to a lawyer, but that is not a right granted to the accused, just a discretionary right enjoyed by the commanding officer.

The purpose of these few changes is quite simple. They are meant to change summary procedure just enough to let the commanding officers go on imposing their own discipline during summary trials. Even though this procedure still infringes on the constitutional rights of the accused to be heard by an impartial and independent court and to be represented by counsel, amendments in this bill will reduce the seriousness of these violations so that they can be reasonably justified under section 1 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

This section states that rights and freedoms are subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

In this case, the purpose of the bill is to make minimal changes to the summary procedure so that it can withstand any challenge under the charter, even if commanding officers are in no way impartial and independent in the legal sense defined by the supreme court in the Généreux case.

While the objective of maintaining order and discipline within the armed forces is important enough in itself to justify denying a constitutional right under certain circumstances, in wartime for example, we do believe that under normal circumstances, when the freedom of the accused is at stake, violating the right to be heard by an impartial and independent tribunal and the right to counsel, which are guaranteed by the Canadian Charter, is not justified under section 1 of the Charter.

The constitutional guarantees provided by the Charter apply to all citizens, whether they are civilians or members of the military. In the absence of criminal sanctions, violating rights guaranteed under the Charter is not as serious an issue. It is, however, a different matter when the accused may lose his freedom.

In this respect, section 7 of the Charter states that, “Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice”.

This provision therefore guarantees the right to counsel of a person facing the risk of being deprived of his or her freedom. In addition, section 11(d) of the Charter entitles any person charged with an offence to a fair hearing. This right entails the right to counsel.

It is true that both the bill and the Queen's Regulations and Orders for the Canadian Forces provide that the accused may choose between summary and court martial proceedings when faced with a jail term.

The accused who chooses to be court martialled is entitled to counsel. Under the QR&Os, however, this right must be exercised within 24 hours. If the accused chooses a summary trial, can we honestly say that he knowingly relinquished his constitutional right to counsel and to be heard by an impartial and independent tribunal?

The choice between a summary trial and a court martial can have serious consequences. That is why we think the accused should be free to opt for a summary trial and have the right to counsel when faced with a jail term.

As for the right of the accused to be heard by an impartial and independent tribunal, section 11(d) of the Charter provides that any person charged with an offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty according to law in a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal. So, in the case of disciplinary infractions punishable by detention, the accused should be heard by a totally impartial tribunal capable of making a decision on the sole basis of the evidence presented.

But can we seriously believe that, when a commanding officer presides over a summary trial, there is not a reasonable risk that the accused will be subject to prejudice? The commanding officer will be required to judge a member of his unit and will probably have extensive knowledge of the accused's professional record. Furthermore, since the commanding officer is responsible to his superiors for the maintenance of discipline within his unit, he has a direct professional interest in the outcome of the summary trial.

The person making the decisions should not be influenced by the parties, or by outside forces, except in so far as he is convinced by the arguments and pleadings on the questions of law at issue.

Finally, we believe that breaches of discipline that may result in the suspension of liberty should be treated differently than other disciplinary offences. In our view, only a more formal and independent tribunal offering the accused the right to call on the services of a lawyer, should have the power to hand down a 30-day detention. This having been done, the military justice system should provide the accused with procedural guarantees consistent with the charter. The only way for a summary trial to ensure the accused these guarantees would be to restrict summary trials to offences not likely to result in criminal charges.

The advent of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms obliged the Canadian forces to make adjustments to their military justice system in order to comply with charter rights and freedoms. When I say obliged, I am not exaggerating.

On reading a study by Martin Friedland on the handling of military misconduct, I was astonished to learn that the armed forces tried, in the past, to obtain a general exemption from the application of the charter, but that the Department of Justice was opposed. I admit that this says a great deal about how the military establishment viewed the charter. The armed forces therefore had no choice, and had to comply with the charter in order to ensure the survival of their military justice system.

In the Généreux case in 1992, the supreme court ruled that the court martial court in which this case was tried did not constitute an independent tribunal within the meaning of section 11(d) of the charter. Before the court could even bring down its decision, changes had already been made to the Queen's Regulations and Orders for the Canadian Forces, particularly to remedy the major shortcomings relating to the judiciary independence of the Judge Advocate.

These changes called for military judges to be appointed for a set period of up to four years, but no less than two. They also required the judges to hold no other duties for the duration of their mandate. These changes also called for the Chief Military Judge, and no longer the Judge Advocate General, to have the express power to appoint a judge advocate to the court martial.

Without running down the whole list of changes that have occurred since and the ones proposed by the bill, particularly those concerning the authority to call a court martial, we must admit that these amendments as a whole have considerably improved the military justice system.

We believe, however, that the bill could have gone further in order to ensure greater independence for the military judges. These must be officers who have been barristers or advocates of at least 10 years' standing at the bar of a province. According to the bill, they are appointed during good behaviour for a term of five years, and this is an improvement over the current situation.

Since military judges are appointed for only five years, unlike civilian judges who are appointed until they reach retirement age, there is no guarantee whatsoever that they would not be compromising their careers as military judges by bringing down judgments in favour of the accused rather than the prosecution. I believe that military judges, like civilian judges, ought to benefit from security of tenure, sheltering them from any possible type of interference.

In addition, the irremovability of military judges is threatened because they may be removed before the end of their term under the discretionary power of the governor in council.

On the matter of independence, the approach in the U.K. is different from ours. There, a civilian and totally independent judge advocate general appoints the court martial judge advocates. The judge advocate general holds office up to the age of 70. Like civilian judges, he may be relieved of his duties only for failure to carry them out or for improper conduct.

The various judge advocates are civilian lawyers who cannot be removed. We believe Canada should draw on the British practice and use civilian judges who are totally independent and without military ambitions.

The Létourneau commission made a recommendation in this regard that the chief military judge and all other judges appointed to decide on matters of military misconduct by civilians be appointed under the federal Judges Act.

In a real effort to ensure institutional separation between the prosecution and defence functions of the military justice system, the bill creates the new positions of director of military prosecutions and director of the defence counsel service.

Furthermore, the bill establishes more precisely the role of the judge advocate general. The various roles played by the office of the judge advocate general have raised a lot of questions as to its impartiality. The fact of providing legal advice at the investigation and charge laying states and of being part of the prosecution, the defence and the judgment on military offences have drawn attention to the conflicting nature of the various functions performed by this office.

The bill, to its credit, removes the office of the judge advocate general from the prosecution function, which it gives exclusively to the new director of military prosecutions. Under this bill, this person will decide the charges laid against individuals to be judged by court martials and conduct the prosecution.

Unfortunately, the institutional separation is only superficial, since the director of military prosecutions will be acting under the supervision of the judge advocate general, who may issue guidelines or provide instructions on prosecutions. So, there is a risk of interference from the judge advocate general that undermines the integrity and independence of the director of prosecutions.

Oddly enough, the same thing goes for the new position of director of defence counsel services set up under this bill. By establishing defence counsel services, the bill separates the prosecutors from the defence counsel, since the defence counsel services no longer report to the office of the judge advocate general.

However, since the director of defence counsel services works under the general direction of the judge advocate general, once again, the bill fails to create the arm's length relationship that could reassure the members of the armed forces.

To achieve the proper arm's length relationship, should the defence counsel services not work under the direction of some other authority?

Finally, I know that I have just skimmed over the bill and that several other changes included in this piece of legislation deserve consideration, but unfortunately I will not have the time to address them today.

However, for all the reasons I mentioned earlier, I will vote against Bill C-25. How sad to realize that what Georges Clémenceau used to say at the beginning of the century still rings true today. He said “Military justice is to justice what military music is to music”.

Ice Storm Assistance March 18th, 1998

Mr. Speaker, the minister should have the courage to admit that a complete review of his program is what is needed.

If he truly wants to help businesses, will the minister agree to review his program's qualifying criteria in depth by Friday of this week?