Douglas Young

[Somalia Inquiry, February 14th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, I do not want the hon. member to spend a sleepless weekend worrying about whether or not I understand, and that Canadians understand, what happened with respect to the murders in Somalia.

What I said yesterday is that every Canadian who really wants to get a clear understanding of what took place in Somalia knows who pulled the trigger. Everybody in Canada knows exactly what happened on the ground in Somalia to the extent that it can be determined after two years of work by the commission, military investigations, the courts martial and everything else that took place.

The hon. member cannot distinguish between the problems that occurred, the incidents that resulted in death and the difficulties that the system had and the inappropriate responses that took place subsequent to those events. I think he should give Canadians more credit for understanding this than he has so far. Canadians know-

[Somalia Inquiry, February 14th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, I assume that we are speaking about the incidents in Somalia that occurred in early 1993 for which individuals have been charged and for which individuals have been found responsible. The names of the Somalia citizens who were killed are known to Canadians and to the hon. gentleman if he is interested in finding out. The incidents have been described, reviewed, investigated and the subject of judicial proceedings.

What I said yesterday, and what I believe the Canadian people understand very well, is that what happened in Somalia was absolutely unacceptable. Two years later Canadians know that what happened subsequent to those incidents in Somalia, how the military justice system responded, how the military investigative capability was not up to snuff, was also intolerable.

We believe that Canadians expect us to do something about it and that is what we are going to do.

[Somalia Inquiry, February 14th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, in mid-September the hon. leader of the Reform Party asked the Prime Minister of Canada to ensure, to guarantee-to use the exact word-that the results of the Somalia inquiry be made available before a federal election. He did not talk about the truth. He did not talk about friends of the government. He did not talk about getting to the bottom of everything. He simply said "to guarantee that the commission respond and report before the election".

Is the hon. member suggesting that we should be telling the commissioners of the inquiry who they should call? That would be political interference. They have had an agenda for two years to call whatever roster of witnesses they wish. They had an opportunity to set their work plan in whatever manner they wish. Now after two years and $25 million the government decided it was time, after three extensions of their mandate, to make sure that it had a report by June 30.

[Somalia Inquiry, February 14th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, it is one thing to allege that someone is afraid of the truth. It is another thing to demonstrate that one is less than familiar with the facts.

The gentleman to whom my hon. friend alludes, the current ambassador for Canada to the United Nations, was appointed to the position of deputy minister at the Department of National Defence during the previous administration's term of office. That individual retained the confidence of that government after the minister of national defence who was in office at the time of these incidents occurring became the Prime Minister of Canada.

The hon. member should be a little bit more careful with how he describes friendships of individuals and with whom they were, at least at one time, passing acquaintances if not friends.

[Somalia Inquiry, February 14th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, Vice-Admiral Murray has testified before the inquiry. He gave evidence for several days.

I have no doubt that, at some point between now and June 30, the inquiry will be able to table a report based on all the evidence and information before it. This is one of the reasons the government saw fit, after granting three extensions, to ask the inquiry to wrap up its hearings by June 30, so that we can obtain its findings and recommendations on a number of matters that have been under investigation for almost two years now, two years during which more than 100 witnesses were heard.

No decision will be made on the evidence given by one witness or another until the inquiry has presented its findings.

[Somalia Inquiry, February 14th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, I always have been bery careful not to comment on testimony heard by the inquiry.

The hon. member referred to evidence given by a person who appeared before the inquiry. I will let the inquiry draw the appropriate conclusions after it has heard not only the person the hon. member referred to, but also Admiral Murray, who is the Acting Chief of Defence Staff at this time.

Of course, with all we have managed to accomplish since my appointment to National Defence, it is essential that those who hold positions in the Canadian Forces have the support of the Minister of National Defence, and that is the case for Admiral Murray.

[Somalia Inquiry, February 14th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, as to the first part of the question I would like to be able to comply with my hon. friend's request that I table a phone call but it is tough to do that. I made it clear that I had received a phone call this morning and I simply indicated to the hon. member what the conversation was about.

Going to the second part of his question and discussing the specific issue of whether or not Canadians understand what happened on the ground in Somalia, the Somalia commission of inquiry has been going on now for nearly two years. It has heard over 100 witnesses. There have been hundreds of thousands of documents presented to the commission for its review.

There have been courts martial. There have been appeals of those courts martial. There are people who are and who have been clearly identified as having been involved in the specific incidents that occurred on the ground in Somalia.

What I have said and what I repeat is that Canadians who are interested in knowing what happened in those incidents are fully aware of what took place with respect to the murders by shooting or by torture.

What I have also tried to explain-and I will continue to try to do this-is that subsequent to those incidents occurring many, many things took place which were unacceptable, which are intolerable and which cannot be allowed to be repeated.

We are moving to try to correct those problems and those kinds of approaches. The hon. member and his party would like to have it go on until 1998, 1999 or maybe the year 2000. He can accuse us of many things but he will not be able to make it stick that we are going to procrastinate on as important an issue as what we are facing in this particular situation.

[Somalia Inquiry, February 14th, 1997]

I hear the other member saying there are other letters or today's letter. Just to make sure there is no misunderstanding, that is one letter among several sent by the commissioners of the inquiry to the government asking for extension of time.

To be fair and rather than to quote from the documents and add to more confusion in the hon. member's mind, I would prefer when it is appropriate to also table the three other letters that were sent from the commission to the government requesting extensions of time and explaining how they function. I will be happy to do that for the edification of the member and his colleagues.

[Somalia Inquiry, February 14th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, obviously we would not want to interfere in the work of this inquiry. The hon. member knows we are very conscious of our responsibility of not interfering in any judicial or quasi-judicial process.

The government has decisions to make. I want to say to my hon. friend it is true that yesterday I referred to a document during question period. I have subsequently tabled that document with the Chair prior to the commencement of question period.

[Somalia Inquiry, February 14th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, we also are getting calls. I received a call at my office from a gentleman in Smiths Falls who said that he supports what we are doing in bringing the Somalia inquiry to a conclusion.

He also said that he had been talking to some people in the hon. member's party who said there should be an inquiry into why the Somalia inquiry was closed. If an inquiry was not appointed to do that, there should be another one appointed into why there was not a second commission appointed, because apparently Reformers are into inquiries these days.