Madam Speaker, as I rise to speak on Bill C-18, I feel like saying that the saga goes on. This legislation has created quite a mess; I can personally attest to that. The causes are not hard to find. The Liberal government dragged its feet on the issue of the electoral map. It introduced this bill much too late, which caused electoral boundaries commissions to sit, because the legislation had not yet passed all the stages.
Now we are at the stage where a non-elected Senate is proposing an amendment and, all of a sudden, the other parties decide that it looks like the most appropriate solution.
To give you an inkling of how absurd the situation is, I will tell you about my own experience with the electoral boundaries commission's hearings in eastern Quebec.
Around ten groups had registered to come before the commission the days I was there. Only two, I believe, finally appeared because people understood that the hearings had been suspended for 24 months. Elected representatives, who sit in the House of Commons, had voted this 24-month delay. And now, we have to reconsider this bill, which has been sent back here by non-elected people, and give a different message to voters.
Because witnesses are not appearing at hearings, we are going to have to start the consultation process all over again. Needless to say, this will result in more waste, since commission members, who travelled across Canada, have incurred travel expenses and received a salary, as they should, for the work they had done. They were mandated to hold hearings, because the government did not present its bill on time.
Fortunately, these people are extremely competent; at least, those I met at the hearings in Rimouski were. The Bloc Quebecois was the only party to make presentations, both in Rimouski and in Percé, and I had the opportunity to say that the disappearance of a riding in eastern Quebec was unacceptable. It is unacceptable that this area be torn apart in such a way.
It was interesting to see the commissioners' reaction to our brief. They explained that the present legislation does not give them any flexibility in the interpretation of the criteria.
So, we will still have submitted our recommendations. The House of Commons committee that will convene on what I would call the architecture of the legislation, the make-up of electoral ridings, will have to take into account, in the redistribution, such criteria as demography, but also the territory covered, the number of municipalities being served, as well as sociological and economic components of the territory.
What is surprising is that the current commissioners proposed to us possible amendments to the initial proposition that they had made. Due to the inadequate representation of groups that had registered but withdrawn because of the message given by the government that everything was postponed for 24 months, we are now in a situation where a very interesting debate on other adjustment possibilities cannot be held.
Today, as I was saying earlier, the saga continues. We are back in the House with amendments from the other place with which the government suddenly agrees. The government, which initially felt that a 24-month timetable was needed to adequately review the legislation in time for the next election and still allow for consideration of criteria other than demography, is now back-tracking. It has decided that a 12-month timetable is enough. They gave the population a new message and I wonder who will be able to find their way in the mess created by the government and by the amendments of non-elected people who allow themselves to make propositions regarding a vital element: representation. The redistribution of electoral ridings is for the next election.
The next general election should normally be held in four or five years but it might as well be in one or two years if this government systematically refuses to acknowledge the repeated requests of opposition parties for a clear constitutional position. This government, as a result of the referendum on the sovereignty of Quebec and the benefits that province will gain from it, will certainly be forced to adjust and possibly ask Canadian electors what position they want to take, what kind of government they want to hold negotiations. We might have to do that. Therefore, it is important that the type of representation that we have be clear and accurate, but this government does not obtain a passing grade in this regard, it does not satisfy the need for a democratic and satisfactory electoral system.
I would like to draw the attention of this House to an inconsistency in the amendment under title 2, page 1, which proposes to replace lines 17 through 21. The amendment provides for the temporary suspension of electoral commission work. At the same time, this House will examine the criteria which should be taken into account for the modification of the electoral map. We might once more find ourselves in an absurd situation where the House committee could ask experts-and I hope that the members of the electoral commissions can be considered as experts-to come before the committee when their work as commissioners has been suspended. Commissioners whose work has been suspended would therefore be asked to appear as commission members. This is unheard of.
Of course, these people could always be asked to appear on an individual basis, but in that case they would be entitled to extra pay, which will add to the saga surrounding C-18 and the costly mess it has created. Why do we find ourselves in a situation where the government and the Reform Party are forced to change position, which further complicates everything?
The Liberal government and the Reform Party must have received strong messages from their constituents, the former at the Liberal convention and, in the case of the Reform members from the West, they must have had the message that the electoral map had to be changed as soon as possible in order to allow British Columbia, for example, to have adequate representation.
We, from the Bloc Quebecois, have never been against the fact that each province be adequately represented in the electoral process. We only wanted to show that the blind application of demographic criteria has a major negative impact on regions whose population is dwindling.
When studying what characterizes an economic, social and cultural area, we realize that the first thing that brings about atrophy is the loss of jobs, which leads to the migration of young people and even of seniors, because they no longer have access to essential services. Then, one day, those people no longer have any representation.
That is the effect that the electoral map had on the eastern part of Quebec. For several years, there were five constituencies in eastern Quebec. The proposal which was made by the electoral commission pursuant to the legislation and which only takes into account the demographic criteria results in the elimination of a riding. Therefore, the people living in the Gaspé Peninsula and in the Matapédia area will find themselves in the same riding, even if municipalities are 300 km apart, not to say 1000 km in winter.
This kind of representation is unacceptable to constituents, to all the people living in that part of Quebec and Canada. And this could happen elsewhere. If I look for example at the evolution of the demographic situation in Saskatchewan, I think it would be important to take those other criteria into account because if we consider only the demographic factor, we will systematically contribute to the perpetuation of something we did before, that is reduce the impact of resource regions, regions where we have made sure we occupied the territory and had good representation.
It is not only out of social concern that we want to guarantee the future of our regions, it is also for economical and cultural reasons; if we do not occupy the territory as we did in the past, the resources in our part of the country will become progressively under-utilized. Therefore, the type of representation we want to guarantee is very important.
We were told: "The Bloc Quebecois does not want to participate in the next federal election, it says there will be no such federal election because it will win the referendum on sovereignty. So why does it take action on this issue?" Let me tell you that our mandate is to defend Quebec's interests and, in so doing, we must respect the choice that Quebecers will make in the referendum.
We believe we can bring them to choose Quebec instead of Canada, but if they were to decide otherwise, we all want to be absolutely sure we conscientiously fought for Quebec's interests. To do so, we must anticipate all possible scenarios and make sure that Quebec will always be well represented within Canada.
Even though I hope this will not happen, if Quebecers were to choose to stay in Canada, they will require adequate representation. Adequate representation means, for example, what we were given by the Meech Lake Accord which was rejected, following initiatives of the party which now forms the government. We were offered 25 per cent of the seats, and this percentage will have to be maintained in the future.
So, we are fighting for the interests of Quebecers, for the region where a riding was done away with. We are defending the interests of people in the Lower St. Lawrence, the Gaspé Peninsula and the Magdalen Islands. We want to make sure that the number of ridings in this region will guarantee adequate economic, social and cultural development.
Just imagine that under the Conservatives, although we had five members and even ministers, our regional TV stations were closed. We do not want to be, in the future, in a situation where we could be further disadvantaged because we would had an even smaller representation.
Also, how can we be sure, given the uncompromising attitude of the present government in its dealings with the provinces, and given its determination not to re-open the constitutional issue, that it will not have to hold elections within a year? We have to consider every possibility and try to protect Quebec interests in accordance with the overwhelming mandate we received as a result of the October 1993 election.
In the area of readjustment of electoral boundaries, the Bloc Quebecois has done its duty. It co-operated with the government for the 24-month period, but it also participated, when possible, in the hearings to have maximum representation.
The other side, however, never ordered the electoral commissions to stop working. We found ourselves in a terrible mess, in which we are sinking deeper with this new amendment. For my part, I believe that, by agreeing with the arguments of a non-elected House, the government is insulting Canadians and Quebecers. The House had decided that a 24-month suspension was appropriate, but under the pressure of more or less official representations from a non-elected body, it reversed its decision, and I believe that it is setting a dangerous precedent. For people who all said that they wanted Parliament to be effective, Bill C-18 is the perfect example of everything one should not do to make sure that it sails smoothly through Parliament.
With this bill, they accumulated every possible blunder. They set a deadline, presenting all kinds of arguments in favour of it. The Reform Party and the Liberal Party did not agree on what it should be, and today they both come back with a shorter deadline. They give us the same arguments, but this time to justify the new deadline. This is not doing much to improve the government's credibility among voters.
This is a wonderful opportunity to highlight how useless the Senate is or, in some cases, how obstructive it can be. This year, we are going to spend $43 million to keep that useless place in operation, when in fact there is a consensus in Quebec that this institution is totally useless. In Quebec, we abolished the Legislative Council 25 years ago. It was similar to the Senate, and since we abolished it, we have not had to put up with annoying situations of this kind.
