Roy Cullen

[Income Tax Act, October 9th, 2003]

Madam Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the hon. member for Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik.

I am delighted to enter into this debate. Listening to the member for Windsor—St. Clair, the points that he put forward are about as enlightened as a tunnel in a coal mine. I look forward to the day when our former Liberal colleague will again represent the riding of Windsor—St. Clair in the House of Commons and will bring forward some good ideas.

Canada's economy is in transition. The part of the economy that is dominated by the natural resources economy is shrinking significantly. We have many other industries that are blossoming and that is an excellent sign that our government is properly encouraging the development of these industries: high tech sectors, telecommunications, the transportation sector, and information technology. These are all great developments, but we need to understand that our natural resource sector is still the bedrock of our economy, employing thousands and thousands of Canadians.

In fact, if we look at the mining industry, one in eight of our export dollars comes from metals and ores. This is employing people across Canada. We have Diavik Diamond Mines in Yellowknife that are developing now and employing 500 people. We have the Voisey's Bay development that will employ a significant number of people.

These mining companies are acting in a responsible way. They go through the process of due diligence with aboriginal peoples and the environmental issues. This is creating a huge amount of jobs and economic activity in Canada. In fact, our reserves are really under-exploited, so there will be a need to continue to support our mining sector.

This bill would equalize the tax treatment for the oil and gas and the mining sectors compared to the other segments of our economy. In budget 2000 the government reduced the corporate tax rate from 28% to 21% and it left out the mining and oil and gas industries because they had some special provisions. The government consulted and has brought back this bill to create the level playing field.

The intent, as I understood it, was to make it revenue neutral for the oil and gas and the mining sector or perhaps give it somewhat of a lift. The bill does that. It is good for the oil and gas industry. It is good for the potash industry in Saskatchewan. It is good for the junior mining companies, but there is a significant part of the mining industry that is not going to benefit from these provisions. In fact, they are going to be negatively impacted. The reason for that is twofold.

In reaching this accommodation to move the statutory rate from 28% to 21%, the government is phasing out the resource allowance and allowing for the deductibility of mining and oil and gas royalties. In the base metal sector of the mining economy, some of these resource allowances were in excess of the amounts that it was paying in royalties.

To compensate partly for that, the government introduced the 10% exploration mining tax credit. That, by the way, will create more exploration in Canada. That will create exploration jobs in Canada and ultimately that exploration will discover more commercial reserves which will generate even more future employment in Canada.

Even with the 10% mining tax credit, that does not do enough for the base metal sector of the mining industry. We had representations at the House of Commons finance committee from the Mining Association of Canada. It argued that there are eight or nine large companies across Canada that are not going to reap the benefit of these measures. In fact, they are going to be negatively impacted. There were amendments introduced to increase the exploration tax credit from 10% to 20%. Those amendments were defeated and so we are here at third reading.

I will certainly be supporting the bill in general because it is a much needed bill, but as a government we need to deal with this anomaly that has arisen for the base metal sector of the mining industry.

I am sure our government will be reviewing its particular circumstances over the next many months and, hopefully, there will be a way to deal with this unfair anomaly in the next budget. I certainly hope we can do that because this industry is very important to Canada.

We can talk about high tech, we can talk about information technology and all the sectors that are growing and taking a larger share of our economic pie, but we are still natural resource economy in transition and we need to ensure that our mining industry is healthy and that it can compete internationally. In fact at this precise moment the prices of ores and minerals are at a 15 year low. That is complicating those competitive factors for our mining industry.

There is a huge lead time with the mining industry from the time an exploration is started, to the time some discoveries or potential discoveries located, to time the mine is dug, the infrastructure is put in place and the metals are finally extracted. We need to understand that is a unique circumstance in which the mining industry finds itself. By increasing the exploration tax credit we will provide additional incentive for these companies to seek out new reserves and ultimately create more jobs for Canadians.

There is another challenge that I should point out. There is concern that by eliminating the resource allowance this will create some windfall gain situations for a number of provinces. I am sure the Minister of Finance will make his view known to the other provinces that they should reduce their tax burden accordingly. In other words, they should allocate that windfall gain back to the mining sector so it is on an even footing or it is revenue neutral in that sense.

However, we do not have any guarantees of that. If we look at the province of Ontario, we have a new premier who is on the record as saying that there will be no corporate tax reductions. We could end up in a situation where there is a windfall for the province of Ontario because a significant number of mining companies operate in northern Ontario predominantly. They would end up with an increased tax burden because provinces like Ontario would not deal with the windfall in the way it was intended.

The member for Windsor—St. Clair comes from an urban riding. I do not imagine there are many mines in operation in Windsor. There are not many in operation either in Etobicoke North, in my riding. However, we need to remember that this economic activity in our natural resource economy creates jobs in our urban centres as well. We sometimes easily forget that.

If we look at the city of Toronto, Bay Street does a lot of the financing. A lot goes on in Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver. There is a huge amount of economic activity in job creation in our urban centres. I should remind members of the House it is economic activity that is done in a responsible way. This work is being done in our rural parts of Canada in our natural resource sector.

In summary, I would encourage members to support the bill. We tried to get an amendment at committee, which did not pass. However, I hope the government takes it under advisement, meets with the members of the base metal industry, which will be negatively impacted, and comes forward with something in the budget.

I would also encourage our government, through the Minister of Finance, to get the message through to the provinces that any windfall gain experienced by them as a result of this bill, they should introduce measures to allocate that windfall gain to the mining sector so at least this part of the package is revenue neutral.

[Criminal Code, October 8th, 2003]

Madam Speaker, I guess in a word, no.

However, to add to that, the intent in the world community of financial players is to have some element of harmonization around these rules. For example, in Canada we have companies that are cross-listed on the TSX and also the New York Stock Exchange, and they could be on other exchanges as well.

I know there is a lot of discussion going on now on how this can be harmonized to the extent possible. If anything, there will be a push toward harmonization. A company reporting in Canada and listed on the TSX and the New York Stock Exchange will have the same requirements so that it does not have to go through the motions once or twice.

The member is aware that under the WTO there is a move afoot on financial services to free up the trade in financial services. Our government is very much involved with that WTO initiative. I think it is ongoing and it will be a positive step when it comes to fruition. I do not see any conflicts in terms of trade rules.

[Criminal Code, October 8th, 2003]

Madam Speaker, with respect to the first question as to which body would be responsible for enforcement, we need to differentiate between civil and criminal enforcement, and compliance and sanctions.

Bill C-46 deals with criminal behaviour in terms of fraudulent activity, misrepresenting financial information, insider trading and protecting whistle-blowers. That is precisely one of the aspects with which the bill deals. It deals with criminal sanctions and calls for prison terms and fines.

Market enforcement teams would be established across Canada, as I said earlier, over the next of years. They would be composed of RCMP investigators, forensic accountants, lawyers and other investigative experts. The teams would be responsible for tracking down corporate criminals and deterring future occurrences of these crimes.

On the civil side, we have the Ontario Securities Commission that has sanctions of prison terms and fines for CEOs and chief financial officers who misrepresent economic realities in the financial statements. We have the Canada Business Corporations Act which could also have some civil penalties.

The point we have also made is that if we were to increase the sanctions under the Canada Business Corporations Act, the member is absolutely right to note that we would have to have the teeth and resources to monitor compliance and then we would have to have the resources to prosecute where companies were not following through on their responsibilities under the Canada Business Corporations Act, or indeed under the rules of the Ontario Securities Commission. But the Ontario Securities Commission would be something with which they would deal.

As Canadians, we should be monitoring how effective and productive these different players are in dealing with these issues because we will gain some experience and knowledge of how it is all working as we move forward.

[Criminal Code, October 8th, 2003]

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to participate in this debate on Bill C-46, an act to amend the Criminal Code (capital markets fraud and evidence gathering). This is a very important piece of the puzzle that is needed in Canada to reassert and re-establish confidence in capital markets.

The stories we hear about Enron and WorldCom in the United States create some questions in our minds as to what this means for Canada. We have heard of the Sarbanes-Oxley legislation in the United States and many wonder why we are not implementing similar legislation. A number of us on this side of the House decided to pursue this question.

The capital markets provide the lubrication for the efficient operation of Canada's economy. If the markets are threatened, the economic growth in Canada is impeded. Fewer jobs are created and the economic well-being of Canadians is attacked.

When we look at what has gone on in the United States with Enron and WorldCom and the response in terms of the congressional and legislative approach in Sarbanes-Oxley, we need to understand that Canada has a different set of capital markets. Canada has a different mosaic in terms of the jurisdictions that are involved in the capital markets. We need to design our own solutions here in Canada.

Bill C-46 is a very good start. It deals mostly with the enforcement and compliance components of dealing with capital markets fraud. Bill C-46 introduces new measures to strengthen enforcement against serious capital market fraud offences, measures previously outlined in budget 2003. This legislation tackles capital market fraud by creating a new Criminal Code offence of improper insider trading. It also protects employees who report unlawful conduct within their corporation from retaliation by creating a new employment related intimidation offence.

Bill C-46 also raises the maximum sentences for existing fraud offences and establishes aggravating factors to assist the courts in determining a sentence that would reflect the seriousness of the crime. It also enhances the evidence gathering tools available to investigators by amending the Criminal Code.

These are very important measures supported by the six integrated market enforcement teams that will be established across Canada over the next two years. These teams will be comprised of RCMP investigators, forensic accountants, lawyers and other investigative experts. These teams will be responsible for tracking down corporate criminals and deterring future occurrences of these crimes. This is a very important enforcement and compliance measure which I certainly support.

Canada is exposed to economic crime along the lines of Enron and WorldCom. In fact, many would argue that we have had some occurrences of that already. Many members in the House and many individuals across Canada are familiar with Bre-X Minerals. YBM Magnex, Philip Services, Livent Inc., Laidlaw, Cinar and Castor Holdings were fairly sizeable market frauds perpetuated here in Canada. We need to deal with this in Canada as well.

When we look at the approach to dealing with this type of economic fraud in Canada, we find that there is quite a quilt of different players and different jurisdictions. For example, the Canadian Public Accountability Board has been set up to monitor the independence and the role of auditors when they examine financial statements.

This body, which is actually chaired by the former governor of the Bank of Canada, will establish the rules by which audit firms can engage in non-audit work, such as tax work or management consulting, for audit clients of listed companies. It will set these guidelines in the sense of when auditing firms will be seen to have crossed the line of conflict of interest. It will also ensure that the firms that are auditing public companies have established mechanisms for quality control, for professional development. It will have the authority to delist auditors who fail to comply with the rules that have been established by this particular entity.

Our group that looked at this believes that this needs to be given a chance to work. We have confidence that it will work and it will deal with the question of auditor independence and auditor quality control.

When we look at the Sarbanes-Oxley legislation that was passed in the United States, there are many important best practices that are established in Sarbanes-Oxley dealing with the separation of the chairman and CEO roles, the question of the independence of directors and a host of other issues. What we need to do here in Canada is make sure that we pick those best practices that were established and where there is general consensus within the financial and investor community, these best practices should be adopted, whether they are in Canada, the United States or anywhere.

There is an important tool in Canada to show leadership in this particular area, and that is the Canada Business Corporations Act. The Canada Business Corporations Act affects many companies in Canada. In terms of the breadth of coverage of the Canada Business Corporations Act, it is something like 17% of all companies in Canada. It is quite a sizeable grouping of companies that are incorporated under this federal statute.

It is through this act that the federal government can exert some leadership by building into the Canada Business Corporations Act some of the best practices that most observers would conclude are the best practices in terms of corporate governance and a host of other items. One of those is the splitting of the chairman and CEO roles. It is probably more advantageous to separate those roles so that the chairman operates more independently and can act on a more objective basis on behalf of all the shareholders.

We have the question of the independence of the boards of directors. Too often we find that the board of directors is selected indirectly by the executive management group of corporations. They ultimately can become beholden to the management of the company. It seems to me that we need to have independent directors on the boards of public companies and we need quite a large number of them.

Let us look at the audit committees. Probably most public companies today have audit committees. It is quite important that these audit committees have directors that are well versed in financial reporting and financial affairs so that they can diligently do their work, listen to the reports of the external auditors and the internal auditors and take the steps that are necessary to protect the interests of the shareholders and other stakeholders.

In Canada, as I said earlier, there are a number of jurisdictions involved in dealing with corporate governance. For example, the federal government is responsible for the regulation of trade and commerce. It is responsible for banking and the incorporation of banks. It is responsible for patents and copyright. It is responsible for peace, order and good government and other matters not exclusively assigned to the provinces.

By the same measure, provinces are responsible for the incorporation of companies with provincial objects. They are responsible for property and civil rights in the province. They are responsible for the management of lands and resources and generally all matters of a merely local or private nature in the province.

As I said earlier when I gave the percentage of 17%, that is the percentage of listed companies that are federally incorporated. In fact the Canada Business Corporations Act applies to roughly 40% of all corporations, listed or not, in Canada.

One of the aspects that our little group on this side of the House looked at was whether we need to differentiate the rules on corporate governance as they relate to large corporations and small corporations. We felt that we should. How to define large corporations versus small corporations is something that needs to be looked at in more detail. Our group felt that large corporations have the breadth of resources, the scope of management and the scope of operation that they could be expected to have corporate governance at a higher level than some small companies that are restrained simply by the economies of scale, the very size and scope of their operations.

In Canada we need to ensure that we have capital markets that are operating efficiently and effectively. We also have players that monitor and regulate the securities industry. There are securities commissions in every province across Canada.

One initiative that our government has been pursuing for some time is to have a national securities commission or regulator that would bring all the provincial securities commissions under one roof. This would be the most cost effective and the most efficient way of doing it. If a company wants to list in Canada, right now it has to go to all the various provincial securities regulators. A national securities agency would be very efficient and effective.

Unfortunately the politics, as they sometimes do, get caught in the middle of this. Certain provinces want to see that happen and others do not. However, in terms of corporate governance and in terms of the efficiency and effectiveness of capital markets, having a national securities regulator would certainly go a long way to improving our corporate governance in Canada and would restore more confidence in the capital markets.

One of the securities commissions that plays a very lead role across Canada is the Ontario Securities Commission, simply because of its size, the number of listings, the number of companies in Ontario, the Toronto Stock Exchange being in Toronto, and much of the activity that takes place in Ontario and the large concentration of industrial activity. The Ontario Securities Commission falls under the Ontario Securities Act. This regulatory body is responsible for overseeing the securities industry in Ontario. It plays quite an important role in monitoring the compliance in corporate governance and financial reporting.

One thing we learned from the financial debacles in the United States and Canada, whether it was Enron, WorldCom, Livent here in Canada, or Bre-X, is the importance of financial reports that are accurate and reflect economic reality. The public companies especially have to come up with quarterly reports. There is huge pressure on management to show continued growth and earnings per share. Sometimes they are caught in a situation where they perhaps have to compromise their principles and distort the economic realities so that their shares can keep moving forward, especially if they have executive compensation schemes and stock options.

Stock options for executives is something that is here to stay. Our group on this side looked at the need for those stock option schemes and the way that executives and the management team are compensated to be clearly transparent. If the president has a number of stock options, it should not be hidden away in note 25 of the annual report. It should be highlighted, perhaps in the chairman's report or the president's report. It should be fully disclosed so that all shareholders are aware of the extent to which the management team participates in the profitability of the firm.

The group that we assembled would like to see some of the best practices of corporate governance incorporated into the Canada Business Corporations Act. There should be sanctions for failure to disclose financial information in a responsible and accurate way, especially for the CEO and the chief financial officer. If it is shown that the CEO and the chief financial officer misrepresented the financial statements of the company, there should be severe sanctions for that because there are many Canadians--directly or indirectly, through the stock market, pension plans or mutual funds--who are relying on the integrity of the financial reports.

Right now, under the Canada Business Corporations Act, the sanctions for misreporting financial information is minimal. We would like to see that beefed up along the lines of the measures that were introduced by the Ontario Securities Commission and along the lines of the legislation before us here today in terms of the Criminal Code.

In Ontario the penalties in the budget measures act of 2002 increased the fines and maximum prison terms for general offences, such as misrepresenting corporate financials from $1 million to $5 million and prison sentences from two years to five years less a day. The American equivalent, increased by the Sarbanes-Oxley act of 2002, is a fine of up to $5 million and/or up to a maximum prison sentence of 20 years.

As I said earlier, we believe that the Canada Business Corporations Act could be amended to increase both the fines and prison terms so that they are more in line with those of the Ontario Securities Commission. That would mean a fine of up to $5 million and/or a prison sentence of up to five years less a day.

Bill C-46 is an important bill and I want to talk about why we should support it in the House. It is part of a thrust of initiatives that must be looked at in a coherent way in Canada. We cannot just say Sarbanes-Oxley. It would not apply in Canada. If we were to legislate Sarbanes-Oxley here in the House of Commons, it would be thrown out because we do not have that kind of constitutional power.

However, by the same token, the Canadian Public Accountability Board must do its job in ensuring that auditing quality controls are good and that there are no conflicts. The Ontario Security Commission must pushing for strong rules in terms of good corporate governance, independent directors, separation of duties between the chairman and the CEO. There must be a requirement for good, honest financial reporting and severe sanctions. The Canada Business Corporations Act must incorporate the very best practices and ensure that if CEOs and chief financial officers do not play by the rules they will either go to jail or will pay heavy fines. Then Canadians would be protected, the capital markets would be efficient and effective, and people would have confidence in the capital markets in Canada.

In conclusion, this is a bill worthy of the support of the House. We should be pushing and promoting these other measures, especially the Canada Business Corporations Act amendments. I am confident that our government will bring forward those solutions in the not too distant future.

[Government Assistance, September 29th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of National Defence. He has already answered this question in a very fulsome way, but I am sure he would like to expand.

The maritime and Atlantic provinces have been hard hit by hurricane Juan. What is the government doing to help the maritime and Atlantic provinces cope with the effects of this hurricane?

[User Fees Act, September 29th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank all those who participated in the debate on Bill C-212, an act respecting user fees. The debate on this topic has been very thoughtful and productive.

I would also like to thank the members of the Standing Committee on Finance for the work they did in relation to the bill, and all the witnesses who appeared before the committee to speak to the User Fees Act. Furthermore, I also want to thank the clerk of the Standing Committee on Finance.

Later this week when we vote at third reading of the bill, if we do not vote on it here today, members of the House will have a very clear choice: continue to deal with user fees through government policies, albeit an enhanced policy environment because of recently announced user fee changes by the government, or embrace the legislative approach proposed by Bill C-212.

I submit to colleagues that Bill C-212 is the preferred route for the following three reasons. First, federal government user fees, which currently generate about $4 billion in revenue annually, while not taxes are akin to taxes and need the scrutiny of Parliament.

Second, these same user fees are priced by monopolies, by officials in departments and agencies with limited input from elected representatives.

Third, the policy approach to user fees has not worked in the past and is not working now. There is little likelihood that this approach will produce the needed results in the future.

Some members have said that users are generally satisfied with the government's cost recovery user fee policy. This is not consistent with the facts before us. The vast majority of users are not happy, nor do they have confidence that the government's new policy will make any real difference.

Bill C-212 builds in consequences should departments or agencies fail to meet their performance targets by more than 10%. In jurisdictions, like the United States and Australia, where user fees and performance are linked, service standards are met close to 100% of the time. The same will occur here in Canada if Bill C-212 is adopted. The end result will be a more innovative and competitive economy and better service to Canadians.

The House of Commons Standing Committee on Finance unanimously approved Bill C-212. Over the years, it has reviewed the public policy on user fees and cost recovery a number of times. Members of the committee know the issue very well. Their work should be of great interest to my colleagues.

To enhance the bill I introduced a number of amendments at committee in response to feedback and comments. Some of these changes were more minor in nature but others were more significant. Allow me to comment on the latter.

Some individuals were concerned that Bill C-212 as it was originally written would compromise the ability of the executive branch of government to implement policies because the House of Commons had a veto power over any new user fees or any increase in user fees.

The amended Bill C-212 removes the veto power of the House of Commons but replaces it with a recommending authority. In lieu of this, penalties for non-compliance by departments and agencies for the failure to meet stated performance standards, as I described earlier, have been written into the bill.

Some were concerned that committees of the House of Commons would be inundated with user fee requests. Although a variety of evidence presented at the finance committee hearings seemed to refute this, an amendment was passed at committee stating that if a standing committee of the House of Commons does not report back to the House within 40 sitting days of receiving such a user fee proposal, the committee will be deemed to have approved the proposal. This provides the committees with the latitude they need to manage their workload and priorities.

There were other amendments which were adopted by the House of Commons finance committee and Bill C-212 is a better bill as a result of those changes.

The government, as I said, has introduced a new policy. It comes a long way and I thank the President of the Treasury Board for that. However in my judgment the revised policy falls well short in the following key areas. First, the new policy still lacks real teeth to deal with departments and agencies that fail to meet stated performance standards. With Bill C-212 there are real consequences if standards are not met.

Second, while the new policy improves the process for resolving disputes between users and federal government departments and agencies, this process is still an internal one; whereas Bill C-212 calls for an independent dispute resolution mechanism.

Third, Bill C-212 explicitly states that user fees are appropriate when private benefits are conferred; otherwise they are clearly taxes. The government policy is somewhat silent still on this point.

There are other differences between Bill C-212 and the new public policy. However, the ones I have underscored are the main ones.

Again, the choice is a clear one. I urge my colleagues to vote for Bill C-212 and support accountability, transparency and the legitimate role of members of Parliament.

[Income Tax Act, September 25th, 2003]

Madam Speaker, I listened intently to the commentary from the member for Kings--Hants, but like my colleague the parliamentary secretary, I did not really hear any discussion about resource sector taxation. What I thought I heard was perhaps a speech that he gave at the leadership convention, or perhaps the upcoming leadership convention, or both. At an occasion like that he would be speaking to the converted within his own party, but in the House his statements have to stand up to greater scrutiny.

Our government has aggressively lowered corporate taxes and continues to do so to a point where Canada is extremely competitive. The member cited the case of Ireland. It is somewhat of a good story from Ireland, but what the member failed to describe to the House was the circumstances at the beginning of the Irish economic renewal. He described the Irish economy initially as a basket case and because it was an economic basket case, as a member of the E.U. it was entitled to massive subsidies.

The E.U. shifted massive amounts of funding for a whole range of projects, infrastructure. In fairness, the Irish government and the Irish people took advantage of that and have started to build from it. The vacant dockyards in Dublin have been made into a duty-free zone. That has caused some consternation in some circles about harmful tax competition and whether or not that constitutes a tax haven. We could take the member's argument to its logical conclusion and say there are no corporate taxes and that would be the most optimal solution. I do not think Canada is in a position to become a tax haven or a no tax zone. We are not even close to that.

I would like the member to acknowledge to the House the special circumstances that existed in Ireland notwithstanding its tax policies that came along later.

[Income Tax Act, September 24th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, the government has placed an amazing emphasis on innovation, entrepreneurship, research and development. I am sure it will continue to do so judging by the remarks in Montreal by the member for LaSalle—Émard.

It is a key item especially when we look at the United States, our major trading partner, where we export 86% of our products. I think we need to diversify somewhat, but diversifying is easy to say and tougher to do.

With the Canada-U.S. exchange rate changing so rapidly, it has created some productivity issues of quite a sizeable amount. For many years we were actually decreasing the productivity gap between Canada and the United States. It has started to widen again and we need to deal with that, especially with the exchange rate on the dollar.

We have to look at the United States as well. While the U.S. has increased its productivity, its job creation and jobs record does not even come close to the superb performance of the Canadian economy. This is something we must be mindful of as well.

[Income Tax Act, September 24th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, we are moving toward a world environment where mining companies and oil and gas companies are being made more responsible for cleanup. In fact, it is my understanding that in the mining industry there is a reclamation fund that the mining companies put money into so that ultimately, when the mine is decommissioned, there are sufficient funds to properly restore the site to its former state.

It is hard to argue or dispute that there are some difficult spots in Canada. I am sure the Giant Mine in Yellowknife is one of them. We need to recognize and acknowledge that we are making progress, that those industries have become very environmentally responsible. However, we do have some legacies that we need to deal with.

I am proud that the government has moved forward with this reclamation trust fund so that there are funds there to properly restore sites once these mines are decommissioned.

[Income Tax Act, September 24th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member of the Bloc Quebecois for his comment.

I believe that this is what the committee is for, to discuss a number of different propositions. Certainly accelerating the implementation of the statutory rate of reduction and the capital tax elimination are some of the ideas that I have heard coming from the mining industry. However, we need to hear a whole range of different views. At the end of the day, the committee should have the wherewithal to deal with it in a constructive way.

I know the member opposite talks about keeping the resource allowance. It might be difficult to convince the government not to move away from the elimination of that, but it should be on the table. It should be discussed. The government is committed to moving from 28% to 21%. It is committed to maintaining a competitive mining industry in Canada, so within that there is probably room to manoeuvre and discuss these important questions.