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Crucial Fact

  • His favourite word was billion.

Last in Parliament September 2008, as Liberal MP for Etobicoke North (Ontario)

Won his last election, in 2006, with 62% of the vote.

Statements in the House

Supply March 14th, 2002

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the member for Vancouver Island North for bringing this debate here today. I know he has worked very hard on this issue, as have many of us. I some comments.

I would like to correct the record about the idea that the government wanted a quota system. The member worked with MacMillan Bloedel and I worked very closely with Roy MacLaren, the minister of trade at the time. I also worked in the forest products. I know the minister and I had many discussions about this. He told me that the industry begged him for a lumber quota system, for five years of peace. That minister and gentleman was not a person who supported managed trade. It was totally an anathema to him. He did not want to go that way.To suggest that the Liberal government imposed a five year quota system on the industry is totally absurd, and the member opposite should know that.

I generally support the motion. In fact the position that our minister has taken is that we should not accept a negotiated solution unless we have free and unfettered access to the U.S. market. However it is the last paragraph that I am a little concerned about.

The member opposite knows as well as I do that the Americans will be incredibly reluctant to override their own legislative authority. That is one of the challenges. I know that is the nub of the problem. However for them to say that they will allow this to override their own capacity to legislate will be a very serious challenge and may not be realistic.

Budget Implementation Act, 2001 March 13th, 2002

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise to enter the debate on Bill C-49. This bill would implement the provisions of the budget that the Minister of Finance brought down on December 10, 2001, a budget that was cast in the midst of unprecedented uncertainty, with an economy that was in a slow down and, of course, it was post the terrible events of September 11.

The finance committee, of which I am a member, travelled across Canada on a prebudget consultation exercise and listened to what Canadians had to say. I am very pleased to say that the Minister of Finance and the government listened to the priorities that Canadians reflected in the consultations that we undertook. Basically, there were four main areas that Canadians talked to us about. There were other areas of course, some very specific, and other proposals but there were many common themes. These themes centred on four major factors.

First, Canadians told us that they wanted the government to respond to the national security agenda. They wanted the Minister of Finance to provide the funding that was necessary to assist Canada in dealing with the threat of terrorism that presented itself so horribly on September 11.

Second, they wanted the government to protect the $100 billion tax cut that was introduced in budget 2000 and the economic update in the fall of 2000, the largest single tax cut in Canadian history.

Third, they wanted the government to protect the $21 billion invested in health care and post-secondary education, an historic agreement that was reached by the government, provinces and territories. A further $2.5 billion was dedicated to early childhood development. Canadians told us they wanted us to protect those investments in health care, post-secondary education and early childhood development.

Fourth, Canadians told us that, after all the hard work that had gone into eliminating the deficit, they wanted us not to go back into deficit at all costs.

Those were the main themes that were presented to us as we travelled across Canada. As I said, there were other proposals, propositions and concerns but those were the major themes that were expressed by Canadians.

I can say that our Minister of Finance and the government listened. The minister protected the tax cut in the budget that he delivered on December 10. The government will not be going into deficit this year or for the next two or three years at least. He protected the investments in health care and also provided $7 billion in funding for the national security agenda.

The national security agenda will encompass a range of things. It will include money to deal with the needs of CSIS and the RCMP, as well as the needs at our borders for the Canada Customs and Revenue Agency to improve the movement of goods and people across our borders in a secure and efficient manner.

The budget will also provide additional funding for the Department of Citizenship and Immigration so that it can improve the processing of applicants for immigration as well as refugees. It will do a number of other things but those are the essentials. It will provide a significant amount of funding to achieve those ends.

I am very happy to speak to some of the detail in the budget because I know there has been a lot of discussion in the House and in committee on the provisions of the airport security fee for example. I for one, and I know the feeling is shared by many of my colleagues on both sides of the House, am sensitive to the fact that the airport security fee, which is $24 for a round trip and $12 for a one way ticket with no stops, should be monitored very carefully to ensure that the small communities which are accessible only through short haul flights are not jeopardized. A $12 or $24 tax on an airfare of $100 or $200 is a very significant amount. We want to ensure that this is monitored carefully.

The fee may end up being too high because the data, that the government had at the time when it had to come up with the tax, was fragile. Looking at the post-September 11 events we were presented with a situation leading into a budget in November where we had to firm up certain assumptions with respect to air travel. One can imagine the situation that put the Minister of Finance in where he had to guesstimate as best he could the air traffic volumes that would be going through this upcoming fiscal year.

The minister sought advice from Transport Canada and the airlines and got whatever information he could. However he was estimating under difficult circumstances. Therefore the airport security fee at $24 for a round trip was developed. That fee will cover the cost of improving security at 90 of Canada's main airports. There will be better equipment and more trained people to process people going through airports.

One of the points that is sometimes lost in the House is that members opposite say it is a fixed fee and therefore for someone travelling on a $100 or $200 ticket that is a huge percentage and is a tough thing to face. Granted that can be a challenge but we need to remember another thing and that is if individuals are going through airport security it does not really matter if they are travelling from Toronto to Vancouver or from Victoria to Kelowna, the same amount of effort is required to process them through security. Basically it is a fixed cost.

We cannot always look at these things in strictly economic terms. There have been discussions and proposals that the airport security fee be based on what we call ad valorem or a percentage of a passenger ticket amount so that, for example, on a longer haul in absolute terms the airport security fee would be higher.

That would mean that people travelling on longer trips would subsidize the cost of those travelling on shorter hauls. There is an argument for that I suppose but there is also an argument to say that if one is presented with a fixed cost then the people who choose to travel, the users, need to understand that there is a cost of processing them through measures that Canadians look to in terms of the standards of excellence and diligence that are required to make sure that people getting on aircraft are indeed secure. That is the reality.

Some ask why that fee would not be abolished completely and be borne by general taxpayers. A good part of the $7 billion that I mentioned earlier for security measures is being borne largely by the taxpayer in general, as a whole. However the feeling of the government was that for the user fee, for the tax, it should be focused on those people who choose to travel.

It is a very small part of the total security cost that the government has absorbed and all Canadians, including those in the gallery and in the House today, are absorbing. This is a very small element of the national security agenda that is being passed on to users.

The Minister of Finance indicated clearly that this situation would be monitored very carefully to determine whether the fee was too high, in other words, whether it was more than was needed to pay for the additional cost of security, as that was the only thing this tax would be used for.

If members opposite would read the budget papers they would see that the revenue that comes in from this airport security fee over five years, if it matches the cost over the five years, would be incurred by the government to increase security at airports.

Of course the costs are higher in the first year because there is the purchase of equipment and the training of individuals who will have to be in these situations. Therefore in the first year the costs are higher than the revenues, but over the five years the whole account balances out.

This is not a money making exercise but an attempt by the government to match revenues to be brought in with the cost of improving security at our airports so that passengers can travel safely and securely. That is what it is about.

If after six months, or a year or two, the government becomes aware that the fee is too high and it is more than what is needed, I am sure that it would review it. The Minister of Finance said quite categorically that he would review the fee and if necessary bring it down. If it has the effect of jeopardizing communities that rely on these short haul routes then that is something I am sure the government would also review.

However there are no easy solutions. For easy answers members opposite would be on this side solving everything in one easy moment. These are tough and difficult times.

The bill would implement another element to establish the authority that would oversee these security measures. It would have 11 board of directors, a broad range of people. There was an amendment considered by the Standing Committee on Finance that would put a representative from labour on the board. I supported that because, as I said in committee, when we go through security at airports we all have various experiences.

For example, the other day I had a pair of little scissors that we use to trim the hair out of our noses or whatever. They went through the screening and the person asked me to unzip my bag. They were taken out and confiscated.

It is a hard thing to take. I have had people tell me, I have never checked it myself but I am sure it is probably true, that one can actually walk from outside the security area and buy a pair of these little nose scissors in one of the convenience stores. I do not know. I have not tried it.

The point is that there are a lot of people who are working in security. They probably see things and have some wisdom and experience to share. I think that if they fed that to a board rep we would probably get some good enhanced decision-making by the authority.

The Minister of Transport has said that he would absolutely make sure that whoever goes on the board would have a knowledge of labour and who are plugged in to labour because this is a resource that we should be tapping into. Why do we avoid it? I do not understand but there are only so many board seats available. I suppose it comes down to that.

I do not know if members read a book that is old now called “Managing by wandering about”. It was written by a former chief executive officer of a corporation. Instead of being stuck in his office with all the trappings of power, fame and all that, he went out and walked around. He visited people at machines, in the warehouse and people who were keeping the cardex of the inventory in the warehouse. He kept wandering around. He said he got more answers about the business than by sitting in meeting upon meeting with all his management staff and executives, and others.

The point is we should reach out to these people. They have a lot of experience. They see a lot of things right at the job site of which we should be taking advantage and I think that our government understands that.

The bill would implement some other important items that were included in budget 2001. One is the Africa development fund, a half billion dollars that would go toward assisting those countries in Africa that have dedicated and committed themselves to good governance and have a respect for democracy and human rights.

Africa is a very complicated place. I know my colleague sitting here has, for many years, worked diligently and forcefully in understanding Africa, so I feel somewhat humbled by speaking on Africa in this House.

We have some significant challenges. We want to help Africans help themselves but by the same token we want to ensure that they are committed to good governance, transparency, accountability and fighting corruption.

The residents in my community are saying that if they send $1 of tax to Ottawa and we send that to Africa, 40 cents of it ends up in some Swiss bank account of some corrupt leader and the other 60 cents goes to help the people. I am sure that is not acceptable to the people in the House and to the people of Canada. We need to ensure that our government is committed to those principles, that we would only support those countries in Africa, and indeed around the world, that need a helping hand and are committed to good governance.

We read in the paper about the various things that are going on in Africa and the troubling news out of Zimbabwe, but we cannot turn back our eyes from this hugely important continent. We need to help those people help themselves. This fund of half a billion dollars would be used for those purposes. The Prime Minister, in chairing the upcoming G-8 meeting in Kananaskis, has said that Africa would be a priority and that this fund would be used to assist those in need.

I have heard some Canadians ask, “Why are we helping them when we have difficulties and poor people in Canada?” That is true. However, as a government, we must take our responsibilities on a number of different fronts. We must ensure, as part of the global world in which we live, that we are playing our role helping others help themselves. That is why this is so important.

Another initiative that is encompassed in the bill before us today would put into play $2 billion of funding that would be earmarked for strategic infrastructure. These would be projects of national significance across Canada. They would depart significantly from the infrastructure programs that the government has put in place already.

There have been three of them and the amount of funding provided has been significant. The last round was approximately $3.7 billion. The federal government puts up money and that is leveraged with moneys from the provinces and municipalities. A whole host of projects are done, from sewer and water systems to cultural initiatives. However, that is a separate program.

The $2 billion announced by the government in budget 2001 would be used for larger projects. They would be strategic in focus and national in significance. This budget would allow for that fund to be set up. Originally, it was to be a foundation. That is how it was announced in the budget. The advantage of a foundation is that it provides a continuity of funding. There is no difficulty in terms of lapsed funds. There is a question of governance and of it being at more arm's length from the government. Some would argue that is a good thing.

The government, in its wisdom, decided to move that from a foundation into an annual appropriation. That would mean that members of the House, people who are elected by the citizens of Canada, would be able to influence the priorities that are established for these national infrastructure projects. The minister responsible is looking forward to working with members on this side and that side of the House for input into what those guidelines should be and what criteria should be applied to the various projects as these proposals come forward.

We need to invest in infrastructure. Not only is it sound public policy but it would create employment, economic activity and makes us more competitive. Many of the projects make us more competitive and some make us a better nation. I am very happy that the budget puts in place the funding required to implement the $2 billion of federal funding leverage with other funds over the next few years.

The budget also implements a number of other measures. What is often lost in the debate in the House, especially by the members opposite, is the tax holiday the Minister of Finance announced for small businesses. Their income taxes will be deferred for about a year. It is especially helpful to them in these difficult economic times in their cashflow management. That is a very significant measure that was incorporated into the bill.

I have other examples. I know there has been much interest and debate in the House about mechanics' tools. I know on this side of the House we have looked at a number of different initiatives. The initiatives that were placed before the House in the past basically did not differentiate between the tools used by mechanics and the tools used by people in other employment. If we had adopted some of those proposed measures we would have left the door open for people who work in offices to write off the cost of their computers, their palms or their research in motion gizmos.

Some would say that would have been a good thing. Any time we cut taxes it is a good thing for taxpayers but taxpayers pay us to manage the fiscal resources in the wisest and most prudent way possible. When we look at a tax measure and say that we will just deal with tools used by employees, and we do not restrict it or ring fence the issue, a term used by the Department of Finance, there could suddenly be a whole host of other implications such as someone who needs research materials for a job or needs to subscribe to publications, et cetera.

The problem with that proposition before the House in the past was that it could be as wide as it was broad and there was no way for the government to contain its exposure. When I say the government would contain its exposure, I mean on behalf of all taxpayers. Many people work as individual contractors, as entrepreneurs and in many different ways. If we had allowed this type of employment expense deduction it would have opened things up very widely. I certainly support the government's decision.

In budget 2001, the minister came out with provisions that would allow the deduction of mechanics' tools for apprentices if they were part of a recognized apprenticeship program in a province or territory. The amount they could deduct would be limited to the extraordinary costs they incurred and would be based on a certain percentage of income.

We all know that the income of an apprentice mechanic is very low. At the same time the apprentice has to build up his or her tool kit by investing in tools. Therefore the bill would enact those provisions. It states that if one is an apprentice mechanic and part of an approved apprenticeship program in a province or territory, one can deduct one's costs up to a certain point of one's income, and in fact can carry the costs over. Let us say in the first year an apprentice has to buy a big chest and put a lot of tools into it. Because the apprentice's income is low, $24,000 or $25,000, he or she might be limited that year but would be able to carry the amount over. I think that is a fair way to proceed.

Likewise, we had to look at other trades. What about electricians, plumbers and carpenters? The government, through the Department of Finance, actually surveyed the various trades. It discovered in the data, which I think was available at Human Resources Development Canada and from various associations, that mechanics' tools were by far a significantly higher expenditure than the tools used in other trades. That is what the data showed and that is intuitively what one would think.

There is a question in all this. If one were a salaried employee of, let us say, Midas Muffler, why would Midas Muffler not supply the tools? However, it apparently does not. The rationale for that is that these tools walk, and I am sure tools do walk.

We have many situations in workplace environments where organizations, companies, whatever they might be, have to put in controls necessary to safeguard these tools, this equipment, these drugs, whatever they are. I am not sure that is a totally persuasive argument but the reality is that the people working at many of the shops are contract employees.

It is interesting to note that self-employed people can buy tools, set them up as a capital cost and the tools can actually be depreciated for tax purposes. Someone might ask why it would be different for a contractor versus an employee. The rationale is that a contractor, in most cases, has additional business risks.

If a person had one employment contract with one employer, the tax department would probably come along and say that the person was not really a contractor but an employee because the employee was taking his or her direction for the day to day work from the employer.

Since a true contractor has more business or personal risk than an employee, the income tax allows the contractor more latitude with respect to the tools he or she can claim as a business expense through a capital cost allowance.

Bill C-49 would implement the provisions to allow apprentice mechanics to deduct the extraordinary costs of tools against their employment income.

Bill C-49 has other very positive features, basically implementing the provisions of budget 2001. Tax incentives to encourage organizations to move from non-renewable energy sources to renewable energy sources is another feature in the bill. These are tax incentives for producers to move to renewable energy sources as opposed to non-renewable.

I think all of us in the House and indeed across Canada probably support the government in its efforts to reduce emissions and take us toward our Kyoto target of reducing greenhouse gases and cleaning up our air. This is one measure, in addition to the many other initiatives, that the government has financed over the last few years. In budget 2000 and in the economic and fiscal update, I think the government committed about $1.2 billion to cleaning up the environment. However, more has to be done. An issue before us is Kyoto and what that does. I am sure the government is examining that very carefully.

We know the United States is doing something but it is certainly not ratifying Kyoto. I for one believe greenhouse gases are a problem and I think most people in the House believe that as well. We need to deal with the problem but with the Americans dragging their feet, we need to be careful.

On the one hand, we want a sovereign, independent policy and we want to deal with the issues as we see them, but if we were to put restrictions or impose conditions on companies in Canada which were not prevalent in the United States, we could create some competitive difficulties for them and that could translate into jobs and economic activity. I am not sure how that will be factored into the equation but I know the government is seized with the issue and wants to ensure there is more data, more information.

Various organizations have said that the costs of implementing Kyoto are in the billions of dollars. We have another study saying that it will cost $500 million at most. The numbers are all over the page. What we need to do in the House, in fact it might make a good study for a committee of parliament, is look at the economic costs and benefits of implementing Kyoto and maybe look at the costs and risks of not implementing Kyoto to see how all those factors fit into the equation.

In conclusion, I believe the bill, which would enact the budget that was tabled by the Minister of Finance on December 10, should be supported by the House. It was an incredibly brave and courageous budget that was brought out in very turbulent times and meets the objectives that were presented by Canadians as we travelled across Canada. It is a well-crafted budget. As the bill would allow the government to implement the budget, I would ask members to support it.

Point of Order March 12th, 2002

Mr. Speaker, I just wanted to pick up on that point about the Senate report looking at security in Canada's ports.

Many years ago, as a university student, I had a job at the port in Montreal. I was a security officer. In fact, I was an officer of the Canadian Pacific Railway police. I saw firsthand what was going on in the port. Those were the days before containerization. There was a lot of pilferage.

I think we should be careful when we make these broad-brushed statements. Certainly the people who work as longshoremen and stevedores are some tough dudes, if I can put it that way.

Many of them worked in the Montreal port and of course the port shut down in the wintertime and they were able to do other things or go on UI.

I think we should be careful if clearly people are trying to get their lives back in order. Maybe they do have a history of some criminality, but I think to make the jump between criminality and terrorism is a stretch because many of these criminals really would have no time for terrorist activities. I think we need to be careful when we make those big shifts in assumptions.

Budget Implementation Act, 2001 March 11th, 2002

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak to Bill C-49. The bill deserves the confidence of the House of Commons. Our Minister of Finance and the government introduced a budget on December 10, 2001. The bill would implement the provisions of the budget, a budget announced in the midst of almost unprecedented uncertainty with a slowing economy and the events of September 11.

The Minister of Finance listened to Canadians who asked him and the government to do a number of things. I was and still am on the House of Commons finance committee which travelled across Canada during prebudget consultations. We heard unanimously from Canadians on a number of key points. First, Canadians want the Minister of Finance to protect the largest tax cut in Canadian history: the $100 billion the government announced in the year 2000.

Second, they want the government to protect the $23 billion it negotiated with the provinces in the fall of 2000 for investment in health care, post-secondary education and early childhood development.

Third, Canadians want the government to provide funding for a national security agenda to deal with the events of September 11 and move forward. The finance minister provided $7 billion to deal with a range of issues including cross border security, immigration, investing in CSIS and the RCMP, and a whole host of other initiatives that were tied to the terrible events.

Fourth, they do not want the government to go back into deficit. Canadians have fought long and hard to cut programs and reduce expenditures to get the economy and the fiscal position of the government in good order. They do not want the government to go into deficit.

I am delighted to stand here today and say our Minister of Finance listened to Canadians and did exactly the things they asked of him. As a result of stimulation of our economy, tax cuts, and investments in R and D and infrastructure we have not gone into deficit or recession.

We have missed a recession notwithstanding the comments of members on the opposite benches who have said we are in one. We are not. We missed going into recession because the government has a sound fiscal policy, the Bank of Canada has a sound monetary policy and the two are working together as they are supposed to. That is why jobs are being created, our economy is moving forward and we have the lowest interest rates in 50 years.

I will talk about some of the specifics of the bill. We sometimes get caught up in detail, albeit important detail, but I want to highlight the context within which the minister brought forward his budget in December of last year. It was a difficult budget to deal with in trying times. However the government brought in sound fiscal and monetary policies and we are starting to reap the rewards.

There has been much discussion about the air traveller security charge. I share the concerns that have been raised particularly about short haul fares and the impact the fee might have. The fee would be $12 one way with no stopovers and $24 return with no stopovers. The point has been raised many times that for small communities and short hauls a ticket of $100 to $120 would be a significant amount. The government has said it understands this and is prepared to monitor it closely. The finance committee could undertake this. If airlines began to cut back services we could be in a predicament where it would be too little too late.

However we need to understand a couple of economic truths. If people are travelling on a short haul, let us say from Vancouver to Kelowna, the fact that they must go through airport security costs the same whether they are travelling from Vancouver to Kelowna or getting on a flight in Toronto and travelling to Vancouver. It is a fixed cost. Travellers must go through the same security measures. The argument, and it is a fairly good one, is that people must pay the cost irrespective of how far they are travelling.

The result of not doing that would be to cross subsidize. Someone who was travelling from Toronto to Vancouver and return would have to pay more and would subsidize someone who was travelling from Vancouver to Kelowna, for example. There is an argument for that but frankly I do not think it is strong enough. We need to test the system.

We have been reading about how air travel has been picking up in Canada. I looked at some of the numbers.

During February 2002 Air Canada experienced 3.1 billion passenger miles. That is up from February 2001 when it was three billion revenue passenger miles. That is not insignificant when we consider what went on after February 2001.

In February 2002 WestJet had 199 million passenger miles compared to 126 million passenger miles. That is an increase of some 58% over February 2001. In the interim, there was the issue of Canada 3000 and I accept that.

What I am trying to say is that people are starting to fly again. WestJet has a pretty robust business model. It goes for no frills, low cost travel. I think the jury is still out.

If a $24 fee is put on a return trip between Calgary and Edmonton, I am not sure that the demand is such that it is going to make a huge difference, but perhaps it will. Perhaps that has to be monitored. To go into the smaller centres perhaps it will make a difference, but I suppose one has to look at what the alternatives are.

No one likes to charge additional costs to get from point A to point B . The government has indicated it is prepared to monitor the situation very carefully. If WestJet , Air Canada or other companies were to indicate that the demand had fallen way off, I am sure the government would look at that and decide whether there was a more reasonable alternative.

Also in the bill is the establishment of the Canadian air transport security authority. The authority would oversee the security. I believe there is room on the board of the directors of the authority for one union representative. In fact, I supported that at committee. I would hope that over time the government would revisit that.

We have heard stories of people having little pairs of nose scissors taken from them when going through airport security, but then being able to buy little pairs of nose scissors on the other side and take them on the plane.

Workers on the front line could have some valuable input and would feed that to the union rep on the board of the authority. I support that. I supported it at committee. I wish the government would reconsider that and put a union rep on the board. There would be better decisions as a result.

A number of other different initiatives are funded through the bill. There is the $500 billion for the Africa fund and the $2 billion for the Canada strategic infrastructure program. These initiatives are worthy of the support of the House.

There are a number of other more minor items, for example the one regarding mechanics tools. This is not minor to mechanics I am sure, especially since it is targeted to apprentices who have to build up their tool kits. The bill gives them a tax deduction for extraordinary costs.

The bill deserves the confidence of the House to implement an excellent budget that was delivered in December by the Minister of Finance and the government.

Interparliamentary Delegations February 27th, 2002

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 34 I have the honour to present to the House the report from the Canadian branch of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association concerning the workshop on ensuring accountability which was held in Nairobi, Kenya from December 9 to December 13, 2001.

The Economy February 8th, 2002

Mr. Speaker, much has been said about the economic slowdown. We hear stories every day about layoffs and people who are hard hit by a soft economy. Many Canadians are concerned about their jobs, their livelihoods and supporting their families.

Will the Minister of Human Resources Development tell the House whether there is good news on the horizon for Canadians, and whether there are any signs of an improvement in the economy?

Budget Implementation Act, 2001 February 7th, 2002

Mr. Speaker, obviously the member for Wild Rose has not read the budget.

I would like to focus on some of the realities of budget 2001 because I think that Canadians listening to this debate would be quite confused. We need to look at the context of that budget. When the finance minister stood up in the House on December 10, 2001, we had a slowing economy and we had the terrible events of September 11.

The House of Commons finance committee travelled across Canada. This is what Canadians have asked for, that the members of parliament reach out to the west, to the east, to Quebec, to the prairies, right across Canada, and listen to what people have to say. I was at those meetings. Canadians told us that they wanted the government to deal with the national security agenda and protect the $100 billion tax cut and the $23.4 billion set aside for health care and early childhood development, and they told us they did not want us to put Canada into a deficit.

When the finance minister stood up in the House on December 10, he delivered. He responded to the priorities of Canadians. Therefore I can tell the member for Wild Rose that he is absolutely wrong to say that the finance committee goes across Canada and listens but does not really have any impact on the budget, because the finance minister and the government did listen to Canadians.

In addition to that, because of the finance minister's good financial planning and prudence and with his contingencies, the government was able to find money to put into research, innovation, investments and strategic infrastructure. That strategic infrastructure investment will have many benefits. It will make us more competitive. As well, as we ramp this program up it will create jobs and economic activity.

All Canadians and all provinces have ideas about what kinds of strategic infrastructure investments are required. I am sure there are very worthwhile national projects in Quebec. I know there are very worthwhile national projects in Ontario and in the west and in Atlantic Canada. There has to be a process to assess them and to move as quickly as possible to respond in the most meaningful way, because these are taxpayers' dollars and they will be spent well by this government, as has been done in the past.

We talk about taxation. The finance minister protected the largest tax cut in Canadian history. As I said earlier, he also deferred to 2002 some taxes for small business in order to help small business, which clearly is facing some challenges this fiscal year. If we add up the tax cuts and the stimulus to the economy through infrastructure and R and D, that is a stimulus this year of about 2.4% of GDP. One does not have to be an economist from the University of Laval or the University of Toronto to understand that 2.4% of GDP is a very large stimulus to the economy. In fact, next year it will go up to 2.8% and will be more than what is being discussed in the congress and the senate of the United States. They are still discussing it. We are actually putting it into action, so that at the same time our debt to GDP is coming down from a high of 71% in 1994 to below 50% in 2002.

We have more to do on our debt, but the fundamentals are coming together. The debt in relation to the size of our economy is shrinking and it is shrinking very fast. I am sure that with the change in the budget from a foundation for strategic infrastructure to an annual appropriation, there may well be some surplus funds in the upcoming fiscal year that will end in March. Because the foundation idea will not be pursued I am sure there will be some surplus funds and they will be applied against the debt. As the debt comes down, the amount of interest that the government has to pay against the debt is reduced. To date, with the $36 billion that this government has paid against the debt, Canadians are saving $2.5 billion a year in interest costs. The money that will be saved this year as a result of debt reduction will be applied to the strategic infrastructure program as those projects come through. They are vetted in a way that looks for economy, efficiency and bang for the buck. We want to make sure we have the best investments to benefit all Canadians.

There are some things that have gone unmentioned in the House with regard to this budget. A member opposite said that nothing had been done for aboriginals. The member obviously had not read the budget because there was significant emphasis placed on helping aboriginal children in their communities and on head start programs.

With regard to health care, former premier Romanow has just come out with his interim report confirming what we on this side of the House have said all along. It is not so much a question of pouring more money into health care. These are taxpayers' dollars. The pressure will become even more intense in the future with the changing demographics. There will be more older people. As well, improved technology means we will have higher expectations. What we must have is a health care system that is sustainable into the future. That is why our government signed a $23.4 billion agreement with the premiers last October. That is why we need to look at things other than quick fixes and throwing money at health care. Compared to other countries, Canada is right at the top in terms of how much is being spent on health care per capita, but if we look at the value we are getting from our health care system, Canada drops to about fifteenth or twentieth.

We need to look at improving the delivery of our health care system. That is why the provinces and the federal government agreed to a set of principles last fall. That is why we all have to work together to make our health care system more efficient and accessible and affordable for all Canadians.

It is incredible that when we debate health care members opposite refuse to acknowledge that tax points are delivered to the provinces every year. These are tax points that we ceded. The federal government told the provinces to take the tax points and it would back out of that area. The tax points were to be used to fund health care, post-secondary education and social programs.To just ignore tax points in the discussion is absolutely scandalous and the people of Canada deserve better than that. We of course have cash transfers as well, which can be used as leverage against the provinces if they do not respect the principles of the Canada Health Act and medicare in this country. I am sure we will continue to do that.

There were provisions in the budget for apprentice mechanics facing challenges with respect to the cost of their tools. This government responded in a very constructive and very fiscally prudent way by providing in the budget measures allowing apprentice mechanics to deduct the extraordinary costs of their tools so they can get on with their lives.

A $1 billion investment in science and technology and research was included in this budget. The government also put up roughly $200 million to help universities and post-secondary education institutions across Canada with their overhead costs and administration costs. This goes hand in hand with the money put into research and development. As well, there are now 2,000 university chairs across Canada and the Canada Foundation for Innovation received $3.5 billion. This, plus the help with overhead, will help these institutions fund research.

We have an excellent budget. I would like to hear more candid comments, real comments, from across the floor.

Budget Implementation Act, 2001 February 7th, 2002

Mr. Speaker, I know the member for Wild Rose gets caught up in his rhetoric from time to time, but I wonder if he was actually reading the budget for 2001 when he made his notes because his comments did not really reflect what was in the budget.

One aspect that he totally ignored was the $2 billion tax deferral for small businesses until 2002. This will help small businesses pay their tax bills.

The member talked about payroll taxes. Of course the EI premiums have come down since 1994, saving employees and employers about $7 billion a year. In fact in budget 2001 EI premiums came down again. Yes, the CPP premium did go up, but to try to intimate that the net change in payroll taxes goes farther than the income tax cuts is total nonsense. We all know that in budget 2001 the tax cut of $100 billion was protected. That was because we listened to Canadians. That means a Canadian family will save about 27% in their personal income taxes.

The member talked about the elimination of the deficit. Yes, the government has eliminated the deficit because of the good management of the finance minister. Perhaps the member forgot about the some $550 billion in debt that is still outstanding. Our government has brought down the debt to GDP ratio from 71% in 1994-95 to less than 50%. It is actually an economic miracle. The member opposite conveniently forgets the fact that notwithstanding those superb accomplishments, we still have to pay attention to the debt.

The bottom line is we have to have some balance in our approach to the budget. We cannot just forget about the people who need support. We cannot forget about investing in infrastructure. We cannot forget about preparing Canadians for the future in terms of innovation, training, science, research and development because that is where the future lies. In the budget the Minister of Finance has struck a very fine balance.

Does the member not understand or appreciate that corporate taxes in Canada are going to be about four to five percentage points lower in the next couple of years compared with the major U.S. states? Does he not understand that the average Canadian is going to save 27% on their personal income tax bill? Does he not understand that we have to go after tax cheaters and the underground economy?

It would probably be that very member who would stand in the House and say there is a big underground economy and ask what we are doing about it. I will tell him what the government will do about it. We will send auditors out and I am sure the cost of those auditors will be repaid many times over. When someone does not pay the GST or their income tax, that puts an unfair burden on the taxpayers of the country who are trying to be fair and honest with their tax returns.

Budget Implementation Act, 2001 February 7th, 2002

Mr. Speaker, I listened to the comments of the hon. member for Kamouraska--Rivière-du-Loup--Témiscouata--Les Basques and was pleased that he acknowledged some of the positive measures in budget 2001.

I wonder if the member perhaps inadvertently created a wrong impression with respect to infrastructure, because of course the strategic infrastructure program is an addition to the Canada-provincial infrastructure programs that are in place already. In fact, in budget 2000 the third infrastructure program was launched with over $2 billion. The intent of this new strategic investment in infrastructure is not really to deal with those projects that were not funded under the existing infrastructure programs but to deal with projects of national significance.

I am sure there are many projects in Quebec that have national significance. I know that in my province of Ontario there are many projects that need funding. For example, there are the corridors into the United States markets where our goods are travelling back and forth frequently. Of course the advantage of a foundation is that you are not posed the dilemma of lapsing funding every year. There is time needed to ramp up projects so they can be put in place. Nonetheless, the reorientation of the strategic investment program will give parliamentarians more hands on input. I know that I and others will be pleased to engage in that debate.

I have a question for the member. I wonder if he has any concrete ideas for strategic infrastructure investments in the province of Quebec which would be of national significance.

Supply February 5th, 2002

Madam Speaker, earlier I mentioned in the House that I had talked to the local police department. The member for Prince George--Bulkley Valley, and I did not raise it as a point of order, commented that I may or may not have. I would not stand in the House and say that I spoke to the division if I did not. I spoke with division 23 in Etobicoke North. In fact I spoke with the staff sergeant.

It seems part of the debate is about whether we make modifications to CPIC or whether we have to go with a grandiose scheme, reinvent and start with a totally new system at great cost.

The minister has acknowledged that there is a new category on CPIC for sex offenders. The police in division 23 told me they can get on to CPIC to find the information needed. In a perfect world it would be nice to ask for all sex offenders in Etobicoke North. That would be a perfect world, but we deal with a world where we have finite resources and we have to make choices.

The police in my area are telling me that we have bigger priorities. We have people killing people for drugs. We have other ongoing things in Etobicoke North.

Why do the opposition parties insist that we need a totally new system rather than modifying CPIC which is already there and making it work better?