Ken Epp

[Criminal Code, October 24th, 2006]

Again, Mr. Speaker, I have a comment more than a question. This member has his heart in the right place, I think. He is out there fighting for the little guy and so am I. There may be a little difference between him and me, though.

I remember many years ago when I had an NDP friend that I worked with. We had a debate on how to help poor people. During that debate, out of the blue I asked him how much he had given to charity in the last year. He said, “Nothing. It's not my responsibility”. But he believed strongly in the government covering everything. I said, “I guess there's the difference, because I give a lot of money to charity and to individuals I see in need because I believe in that”.

I have a friend right now in the city of Edmonton, with whom I am working and who is in a bad financial situation. He recently got a cheque. It was not a large cheque. He needed to cash it and I asked him why he did not have a bank account. I told him that he could open a bank account, that the bank would open one for him and I would go with him and help him and he could cash that cheque for nothing. He said, “No. I can't be bothered”.

Should we pass a law that forces these people to have a bank account? I do not know if we should. Perhaps we should.

At any rate, he asked me to please stop and he went into one of those instant loan places to cash his cheque. I think they charged him $2 to cash a $200 cheque. There was no interest involved because he did not take out a loan. He had a cheque. It was a $2 charge to cash the cheque. If I go to a bank, I also am charged to cash a cheque because the bank is giving me a service.

I would like to urge the member to stop and think about it. Perhaps these small financial institutions that cater to the small user are providing a valuable service to those people for what is a reasonable absolute charge, but if we compute it into an interest rate it becomes usurious, which is of course the issue in the Criminal Code.

These people are not criminals. They are providing a low level service for a relatively low amount of fees, but when we convert it to an interest rate, which is unjustified in this place, then I think we can get very confused on the issue. I appreciate the heart this member has, but I would urge him to reconsider his vitriolic attack on these people.

[Criminal Code, October 24th, 2006]

Mr. Speaker, if I can add clarification to what the two members have just said, first, I understand it is the intention in the bill that provincial jurisdiction will be given. In other words, the in the case of Quebec, it will continue. In the case of other provinces, they regulate this industry on behalf of their own residents. I think there should be no objection from the members of the Bloc on this issue.

Second, I think it is fair to say that these people, instead of having a bank account, will go to one of these short term financial institutions and they will be willing to pay $10 if they can get their short term loan and pay it back.

I happened to just do the math because I had not done it before. If we pay a $10 charge on a $200 loan for 30 days and if we call it interest, it works out very close to 60%. The question is this. Is it really fair to call that interest? As in all cases, there is an administrative component to this that must be covered. If these firms were not permitted to charge that $10 fee, then they would be unable to provide the service and those who want that service would then be deprived of it.

The objective of the bill is to allow those firms to conduct their business on behalf of those who demand that service.

[Criminal Code, October 24th, 2006]

Mr. Speaker, I believe the hon. member has some incorrect information on this. The present Criminal Code provides a maximum limit in the 60% range as the amount of interest that can be charged. The amounts of the loans are very small and these companies have to cover their administrative costs, registration and so on, but even charging $10 for one month on a loan of $200 is way over that limit. This bill would permit the provinces to regulate that and ensure there was no abuse of it. However, it still would allow these businesses, which do perform a valuable service, to carry on with their business.

Many firms do this. I received a little thing in the mail a couple of days ago from a retailer I will not identify, indicating that there would be no interest until next year. However, written in small letters underneath, it said a $15 service charge would apply. If we compute that as a rate of interest, it increases it considerably, although it is not called interest. This also needs to be regulated.

I gently correct the member to ensure that what she is talking about vis-à-vis this bill is accurate.

[Business of Supply, October 19th, 2006]

Mr. Speaker, I have always appreciated the clarity with which that individual speaks. The member for Mississauga South used to be a member of the finance committee. As an accountant, he has a fairly good sense of the numbers. One thing I really like about him is that most of the time he is able to distinguish between deficit and debt, which some of the Liberal members over there have an inability to do, including the member for Kings—Hants.

I would like to point out to him, to his grandmother and to all of the other people who happen to be listening to this or will hear it in the future, that when it comes to economics, it is something like steering a ship. I read somewhere a long time ago that the captain of a large ocean liner has to begin his turn some 10 miles before he actually expects the direction of the ship to change, because of the inertia of it. The same thing is true economically.

I hasten to point out that the debt, which the Liberals claim they inherited in 1993 from the Conservatives of the day, was in fact nothing more than the Liberal debt from 1972 onward, with accumulated interest. That is really what it was. During its time of being in power, the Conservative government actually had a balanced budget on programs.

This is a long term thing. I think if the Liberals were honest they would have to admit that it was some of the programs like NAFTA, and even the GST, which they said they would cut, these things, that set in motion the ability of this ship to turn nine years down the road. If it had not have been for that, they would not have been able to do even what they did.

Beyond that, during their short time between 1999 and 2003, government spending went up 50% under those Liberals. Let us think of the amount of debt we could have paid down if there had been responsible spending practices on the part of the Liberal government.

[Committees of the House, October 18th, 2006]

Mr. Speaker, I listened with great interest to the member opposite and to his expressions with respect to voting on the Wheat Board issue.

The important issue is, members who raise grain should have the ability to express themselves. The member is saying that we are restricting that, but we are not. We are simply saying that people who do not use the Wheat Board and who do not have a permit book should not be permitted to vote.

I am sure in the upcoming Liberal leadership vote, Liberals would like to have only their own members voting. Therefore, it seems to me that the principle of democracy is an important one.

I would like his response to this, although I know already what he will say.

[An Act to Amend Certain Acts in Relation to DNA Identification, October 4th, 2006]

Mr. Speaker, I enjoyed listening to the arguments that the very learned member of Parliament made. I would like to ask him a question vis-à-vis the legality of the DNA samples.

Is he aware of any instances where even though DNA samples are presented, they are seriously challenged in hearings and in court, and whether there is an almost automatic acceptance of it?

The reason I ask is that it has occurred to me that since so much weight is now being put on DNA, perhaps someone, who is intent on doing something bad and wants to frame someone else for it, could plant some DNA, obtained surreptitiously, at the scene of a crime or wherever and thereby implicate someone else.

[Points of Order, September 26th, 2006]

Mr. Speaker, I distinctly remember quite some time ago, the question of the use of the term “meanspirited” came up in the House. It was in the previous parliament. I believe at that time, Mr. Speaker, you ruled that it was unparliamentary. I heard the word very frequently today. I would ask that you review the issue and give direction to the House.

[Noah's Ride for the Cure, September 22nd, 2006]

Mr. Speaker, my wife and I are incredibly proud of our nine year old grandson.

After seeing a family friend go through a very difficult time fighting cancer, Noah came up with the idea of raising money for cancer research by riding his bicycle from Calgary to Edmonton. In August, Noah and his dad, my son Brent, did the ride. They rode 328 kilometres in two days. I had the privilege of driving one of the pilot cars and in the mirror I observed the grit and determination which this marathon exacted from both of them.

This nine year old is an inspiration to us all. In the shadow of Terry Fox, whose picture is on the wall in Noah's room, he did the impossible. He has almost met his fundraising goal of $30,000. Anyone who would like to contribute may still do it. Just go to www.NoahsRide.ca.

Way to go, Noah.

[Sponsorship Program, September 18th, 2006]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberal sponsorship scandal was a disgraceful period in our history where millions of taxpayer dollars were stolen and diverted to the coffers of the Liberal Party of Canada.

My question is for the President of the Treasury Board. How many dollars have been recovered to date from the Liberal Party over the sponsorship scandal?

[Canada Elections Act, June 12th, 2006]

Mr. Speaker, under the previous Liberal government we saw waste, corruption and the misuse of taxpayer money.

Canadians are pleased that this government is working to put in guidelines that will clean up the mess left by the Liberals. One such change is to restrict to $1,000 the donation that an individual can make to political parties. Corporate and union donations will be banned completely.

There are Liberal members, such as the member for Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, who are now complaining that this is somehow a direct attack on the Liberal Party.

Could the President of the Treasury Board explain to the opposition and to Canadians why these changes are necessary?