Ken Epp

[Canada Grain Act, April 18th, 2005]

Madam Speaker, I think it is just a matter of plain contempt by the Liberal government for the western farmer. Contempt is a very strong word, but the fact of the matter is that the number of electoral seats in the west is very low. Liberals know they would never get away with it if they imposed that kind of a restriction on Ontario or Quebec where 60% of the Liberal seats lie. In the west, it does not matter, they think, so if they do not win some seats it does not matter. I think that is the reason.

On the other hand, though, I would like to say, because there are some people who are listening to this, my argument always has been that if the Wheat Board participation were voluntary, it would improve the prices for those who are selling to the Wheat Board because then it would have to compete with other buyers for the product and everyone's price would increase. I am quite convinced of that from an economic--

[Canada Grain Act, April 18th, 2005]

Madam Speaker, the short answer to the question is that the government is just incapable of getting its head around what is important and what needs to be done now. A phrase has been developed here, since just before Christmas, calling the Prime Minister “Mr. Dithers”, but I would attribute that particular characteristic to the whole government. It seems to push off until the last minute, and sometimes even after it is too late, some of these necessary things that need to be done.

One of the issues the Liberal government has failed to address is the very nature of farm income. Farming is one of those businesses which has so many variables. The business that I was in before I became an MP, as an instructor at a technical institute, gave me a salary. My salary was almost to the penny the same month after month, with the exception, of course, coming after my annual contributions to Canada pension had been paid up. Then my income went up a bit for the last part of the year, but it was very predictable and always the same.

Many other businesses are that way. Historically some of them may go up and down seasonally to some degree, but it is always fairly predictable. However, we have had in this country many years now where farmers have struggled with many variables.

There are some variables over which nobody has any control except the Liberal government, which I think would like to pass a law to control the weather but it cannot be done. There are droughts. There are times of floods. There is too much rain or too little. There are storms. I remember growing up on the farm. There were occasions when a hailstorm would roll through and all of the anticipated income from several fields would disappear in just a matter of minutes. Those are variables that cannot be anticipated.

There are various plant diseases. There are insects. There are, as I said before, increasing costs of chemicals, fertilizers and farm equipment and the cost of operating and repairing that equipment. Those things are beyond the farmer's control. They happen and there they are, but there are some things which will occasionally bring a farmer down to where his income for the year is almost non-existent yet the expenses have still all been there.

If we want to have a long term policy that will give stability to the farmers, we must have some system whereby in good years farmers should be able to put away some of the excess money in those good years without having to pay a bunch of taxes on it. It should be like a really high limit RRSP. They could put their money away and it would carry them through if they were to have a year or two in which their incomes were suppressed.

Besides that, though, there is the much longer term issue and that is the value of the farm product itself. We have allowed this to deteriorate beyond comprehension. The government has done nothing. Today we are talking about the World Trade Organization. When this ruling came down, the Americans immediately appealed the parts that went against the United States. Did this government appeal the items that went against our farmers? No, the Liberals dithered and sat on their hands and twiddled their thumbs and played their violins or whatever they did. They did not do anything. That is of course typical of this government. It dithers and dithers and does not do things promptly.

I do not have all of the answers, but as my colleague has said, we need to sit down with farmers, with producers, with people in the agrifood industry, and we need to seriously talk about how to develop and implement some plans that will increase the stability and the viability of being a farmer.

I think it is sad when I see and talk to young people who would love to go farming. In fact, I have experienced this within my own family. They just love it. There is something special about getting one's hands in the dirt and making food. It is really something special. There are young people who want to farm, but it is virtually and totally untenable now. It just cannot be done.

There is no way that a farmer can pass off the farm to a younger person because there is no money for any kind of retirement, let alone continuing to operate the farm. The farmer is almost always forced to sell. The family farm, which in some cases has been in the family for 100 years, is lost to the family. All of that is because of government policies.

[Canada Grain Act, April 18th, 2005]

Madam Speaker, talk about being interrupted in the middle of a sentence, almost in the middle of a word; I do not know what happened there.

My brother farmed for many years. He said he was proud to be in a profession that provided food for not only hundreds of thousands of people in this country, but around the world. People have heard of the Canadian Foodgrains Bank, which is a wonderful charity that distributes food around the world to people who are suffering from famine. My brother had a bumper sticker on his half-ton which read, “When you complain about the farmers, don't talk with your mouth full”. I thought that was a great little bumper sticker. My brother worked hard.

I remember when I was a youth on the farm, the rule of thumb was that the sun was there as a light for us to do our work and we did not waste it. If the sun came up at five in the morning in summer, that is when we were in the field and we worked until it was dark.

I also remember my father, speaking of transportation, saying, “How come when I buy a tractor or a piece of farm equipment, a half-ton or a grain truck that is built in Ontario, it is FOB factory and I have to pay for the freight to take it out to my farm, but if they buy my wheat, I have to pay the freight to deliver it to their doorstep”. Farmers in Saskatchewan, Alberta and Manitoba have had to pay the freight both ways all these years. It is another case where we have neglected the issue of national unity.

Madam Speaker, I stopped my watch during the interruption, so I still have 12 seconds. In those seconds as I wrap up, I would like to say that I appreciate the opportunity to speak on behalf of farmers. I know that they are in desperate straits these days. We need to do something that gives long term stability to their industry and, we hope, the ability of farmers to make a proper living for themselves and their families.

[Canada Grain Act, April 18th, 2005]

Madam Speaker, I am privileged to enter this debate on behalf of farmers in our country.

A little known fact is that I grew up on a farm. That is where I learned my love of food. It is also true that the very first dollar I ever earned in my life came from the farm, which they say among young people is significant. They ask, “How did you earn your first dollar?” Well, believe it or not my first dollar was earned by taking over a shed on the farm that my dad said I could have.

We moved to a different place and when we got there, there was this one shed that had nothing but junk in it. It had old wood and old barrels. Among other things, I found a really wonderful antique clock in that shed. That started another love that I have, and that was repairing mechanical clocks. I do that to this day as much as time permits. I still have that clock. It is on the wall in my office at home. I cherish it because of what it represents.

Anyway, I got into the chicken business as a young man. I had to buy the chickens. My dad was interested in not only teaching me a worth ethic but also in making sure that I understood the principles of business. So even though I lived on a farm and the granaries were full of grain, I had to buy the grain from him. He insisted that I keep track of it. Later on when we sold the chickens in the fall, and let people make soup out of them or whatever they did, maybe even Kentucky Fried Chicken, I had to take that money and pay back the debt I had. My father helped me a great deal with that.

At the time, I sort of thought he could have just given me the wheat. However, later on I realized the wisdom that he had in teaching me the principles of business.

I should maybe tell members that in that first year, after looking after all these chickens, my net profit was $6. I will never forget that either. I took them right from the time they were wee, little, itty-bitty guys right out of the hatchery and I looked after them. I will not give the House the graphic details of some of the things that one has to do with little chicks, but sometimes, for example, they get plugged up and one has to unplug them, and I did that. Again, I look back at it now and think that maybe that was part of the preparation of my future life in politics. At any rate, the farm was just an integral part of it.

My father loved farming. He started farming in 1935, when things were really tough in Saskatchewan. There were some really rough years. I remember when I was born, well I do not remember the day I was born, but shortly after, that we were exceptionally poor, but we did not know it because we were so happy. We lived in a wonderful, loving family, with extended family around as well, grandparents and so on. We all stuck together. Even though we did not have money, we had everything else that one would need in life. One of the things that a farm provides is the ability to produce food for the farm family as well. We butchered our own chickens and slaughtered our own animals, and we dressed them right on the farm. We did not have all these fancy abattoirs and all those other things. I remember taking eggs to town and selling them.

My dad told a story. He was part of the credit union movement in Saskatchewan for many years. On his retirement, after serving for many years on various boards with the credit union, he was given some tributes. One of the gentlemen got up and said, “I knew Corny Epp”. My dad's name was Corny, Cornelius actually, but everybody called him Corny, which was his nickname and was not a pejorative term in those years. “I knew Corny Epp when he was an MP”, he said, “Oh, no, he's never been a member of Parliament. I knew him when he was meat peddler”. That is how we made our living. Things were tough, but we just got to work and we did it.

Farmers have been that way throughout the years. They are very innovative. If they cannot buy something they need, they make it. If they cannot fix something that needs fixing because parts are not available or they are too expensive, they improvise. In fact, one of the jokes going around Saskatchewan in those years was that some farmers tied together their machinery with baling wire. They made it work and they survived.

One of the despicable things though that has happened to farmers is that as their costs have gone up dramatically, lo and behold, they have not had the luxury that so many other people in the country have had, and that is the cost of living allowance.

Whether we are talking about members of Parliament or members of other professions, or the profession that I was in, the education profession, we were always contracting and negotiating agreements. We would always put cost of living increases into those agreements. Why? It was because fuel went up and therefore we needed more income, so that we could afford to buy the fuel. Groceries went up, so we needed more money to feed our families. It went on and on like that.

The truth of the matter is that farmers have had just the opposite. It is just amazing, when we think about it, that our agriculture industry in the country is as strong as it is because of the huge challenges that it has had over the last number of years.

I know that the cost of chemicals, pesticides, machinery, fertilizer, and the whole cost of fuel and property taxes, all of these things have gone up dramatically, and yet can the farmer demand a higher price for his product? No, he cannot. He has to take what he can get.

I remember having a number of farmers over the years talk to me, both before I was in politics and since, about the dilemma they face when their costs keep increasing and they land up actually borrowing against their capital equipment. They cannot afford to replace it and decide to make it go one more year. One more year becomes two years, three and four. Finally, they have decrepit old equipment and they do not have enough income to actually replace it. Eventually they get driven out of business. That is not acceptable.

We need to do everything that we possibly can to strengthen the agricultural industry in the country. This Liberal government has done a dreadfully awful job of recognizing the importance of the agricultural industry, and of doing anything proper with it.

It just so happens that our daughter married a farmer in Saskatchewan. When I graduated from university, I moved to Alberta and subsequently that is where our children were born. Then one of our kids goes and moves back to Saskatchewan, and marries a farmer. I thought, well, kid, I wish you well. I hope things go okay.

We went to Regina about a year ago or so. It was the first time that I saw this. Some farmer had rented or bought an old used, probably unusable, 40-foot trailer and painted a big sign on it, and parked it on his field so that visitors from the United States could see it. The sign said, “Welcome to Canada, the country where rapists, murderers and robbers go free, but farmers who sell their own grain go to jail”. Imagine the depth of frustration that illustrates.

I talked to another farmer, also in southern Saskatchewan, who said he was in a real dilemma. This was a number of years back before I was in politics. He owed money to the Farm Credit Corporation. The Farm Credit Corporation, a Government of Canada organization, was telling him to pay. It wanted its money back. He told them he had no cash and that he could not make his payment. However, he said his grain bins were full of durum wheat that the Wheat Board would not sell for him.

That particular farmer told me he had driven across the border to Montana and found an actual pasta plant. Can we believe it, an actual pasta plant? They are not permitted in Canada under the rules. The Liberal government faced that issue in Saskatoon a couple of years ago and with its policies made it impossible to have a home-grown pasta plant right in our own country for added value and a market for our own farmers' grain.

The farmer told me he could have taken his wheat across the border and could have sold it. Instead of getting $4 a bushel that the Wheat Board would offer if it had a quota, he would get $2 now and then hopefully another $2 when the final payments came in. If he took it to Montana, he would get $8 a bushel, cash, right away. The guy would write a cheque when it was delivered.

Under Canadian rules he was not permitted to take it into the United States. He had to sell it to the Wheat Board for $2 a bushel and then buy it back. This has nothing to do with the Americans preventing him from taking it into the United States. The Canadian government told him he could not sell a single kernel of wheat unless it went through the Wheat Board.

One can only imagine the farmer's frustration. One government agency, the Farm Credit Corporation, was telling him, “Pay us some cash”. He had the chance to convert his grain into instant cash but the other government agency, the Canadian Wheat Board, told him he could not do it. What is he going to do? The interest has been piling up. Threats from creditors have increased. He is getting more and more frustrated. I cannot for the life of me understand how a government that uses the word liberal, which means freedom, liberate, can pound a farmer into the ground so hard that he cannot survive.

The government ought to be ashamed of its record over the last 11 years. In the 11 years it has been in power, it is absolutely atrocious that it has not been able to address the agriculture issue with some long term solutions and some innovation that would provide farmers with the ability to market their product at a competitive price. Instead, farmers have to go through the Wheat Board where the lowest price is the law. It is like Zeller's, except Zeller's gives a bit of competition in its business.

I am not against the Wheat Board. Some people love it, and that is fine. I have no problem with that. Anybody who wants to market their grain through the Wheat Board should absolutely have the freedom to do so. I also think that a farmer who has found a market for grain that the Wheat Board is not selling should have the right to sell that grain to the highest bidder, just like every other merchant in this country. Whether I order water for my office or whether I am buying groceries or clothing, no matter what product I buy, I can see what kind of deal different people will give me. I am able to make a decision.

What is doubly offensive is that the Wheat Board only applies to the prairie provinces, which is incredible. I cannot believe the government would allow this to continue over all these years. The government has been crowing about being the party of national unity, but the things it has done in the last five or six years with respect to ad scam has done exactly the opposite. This country has never been so divided and un-unified as it has been because of the policies of the government.

The same thing is true when it comes to treating farmers across the country equally and equitably. The government has rules which apply in one part of the country but do not apply in another part. Obviously that makes competition very difficult.

Bill C-40 deals with some of the problems that farmers have had with marketing their grain, particularly with the WTO. This is another case of the government dithering on an issue which should be dealt with expeditiously. At the last minute the government is trying to push through some legislation which the World Trade Organization's dispute settlement body says must be done by August 1.

All parliamentarians are being backed into a corner. I am one of them and I will accept my responsibility. I will support Bill C-40 because of pragmatic necessity. We cannot afford to invite more WTO trade sanctions against us. The legislation must be implemented. Therefore, I will reluctantly support the bill so that it can get done.

At the same time I must emphasize I am willing to do that only because I expect that when the bill goes to committee, the amendments that will be put forward at committee will be dealt with rationally and decently by all of the people in the committee and also by the Liberal members for a change.

We need to look at this in the long term. We need to look seriously at the whole Canadian Grain Commission. We need to make sure the issues that are always before us are solved.

The amendment, for which we are asking for support as a condition of our supporting the bill receiving second reading and going to committee, would actually say that we want to have a comprehensive review of the Canada Grain Act and all of the organizations mandated by that act, and that the review should be completed within one year. If a Conservative government of the day had any say in it, we would certainly be acting on those recommendations. We would try to bring some long term stability and business balance to the country's agriculture industry.

One of the issues in dispute was with respect to transportation. Rail car allocation and grain transportation is a huge issue. People have no idea of the tonnes and tonnes of grain that come from our farms, particularly in the Prairies.

I grew up in Saskatchewan, the wheat basket of the country, acres and acres of fields of flowing grain. It is a beautiful sight. When we get in there with a swather or a combine and the sickle makes that swishing noise, it is such a thrill. My brother, who farmed for many years, said that there is something very special in knowing that his profession provides food for hundreds of thousands of--

[Question No. 99, April 15th, 2005]

What differences are there between the policies for the imposition of entry fees on golfers wishing to golf at the course in Elk Island National Park and the course in Fundy National Park, and why do any differences in policies exist?

[Points of Order, April 13th, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point or order, which I hope will be very short and I am sure that you hope that too.

I am referring to the fact that during the soft lob question during question period the Minister of the Environment tabled a document as part of question period.

Mr. Speaker, you know that we have enough trouble trying to keep the questions and the answers related to the questions the way it is now, and surely we do not want question period to degenerate into a time when ministers take up our time tabling documents.

I refer you to page 371 of Marleau and Montpetit which states:

A Minister or Parliamentary Secretary acting on behalf of the Minister may table documents in the House during Routine Proceedings--

On the last line of that page it states:

--if a Minister wishes to table a document which is not required to be tabled, it can only be tabled in the House during Routine Proceedings.

I submit that the document which was tabled by the Minister of the Environment is not yet properly tabled. I think it should be tabled during routine proceedings which is to follow soon.

[Men's World Curling Championship, April 12th, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, there is great joy in Edmonton—Sherwood Park these days. We are all excited about Randy Ferbey's fabulous victory in the Ford Men's World Curling Championship in Victoria this past weekend.

Randy and his teammates, David Nedohin, Scott Pfeifer and Marcel Rocque, kept Canadians on the edge of their seats during most of the games in this tournament. We all heaved a collective sigh of relief when they won their last game, beating Scotland 11 to 4.

These curlers from my riding are absolutely fabulous. They have won 30 of their last 35 games, coming out victorious in the provincials and the Canadian Brier. Now they are the world champions for the third time.

We congratulate them and wish them success as they move toward representing Canada in the 2006 Winter Olympics. They truly are world champions.

[Standing Orders and Procedure, April 11th, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, with respect to the Standing Orders, the next item I had which I think ought to be considered for change is the method of election of chairs and vice-chairs in committee.

I was always intrigued with this when I first came here. When it came to election time, instead of having a slate from which to elect as we do in every other election, in committees we were not permitted to do that. Even when we elect the Speaker here there is a slate of all the candidates and we can choose which one we are voting for. In committees we are not permitted to do that. One person says, “I nominate X”, and then the vote is yes or no on that one person.

I would rather have a slate of candidates, a slate of everybody who is willing to be there, and let the committee choose the chair and the vice-chairs based on a slate. Then of course we would have runoff elections if necessary, if no one has a clear majority. To me, that would be a more reasonable way of electing chairs.

The way it is now sometimes for the candidates who have expressed their willingness to come forward, only the first one nominated gets a chance to be considered. I think there is a huge flaw in that. I know the hon. member for Glengarry—Prescott—Russell would probably take exception to this. I am not sure, but I would sure like to hear his comments on that sometime as well.

The last thing I would like to have in the Standing Orders is on the Speaker's reluctance to intervene when there are problems in committees. Several times I have had a problem myself where there have been clear violations of ordinary rules of democracy. This was in a previous Parliament, not the current Parliament, where the chair actually declared passed a motion that had been defeated.

That occurred in a clause by clause of a bill. The committee chair said, “Shall clause 38 pass?”, or whichever one it was that we were on, and not a single person said yes. I and my colleague on the committee said no and the chairman said, “I declare the motion passed”. It was so opposite to the way a democracy is supposed to work when the chair declared that something had passed when in fact the only response in the committee was a negative.

I remember reporting that to the House. The Speaker of the day said that committees can do whatever they want, that they are masters of their own fate. I think they should be, but within the rules of democracy. When there is such a blatant and obvious violation of a simple vote, then the Speaker should be able to intervene in order to make sure that the rules of democracy are kept.

That completes my remarks. I have one more brief comment. We have had this step of a bill being referred to a committee before second reading. I remember when that first came in. It sounded like such a fine idea that all of the committee members could work together to fine-tune the first draft of a bill so there would be a better opportunity to get a good bill.

Unfortunately, within the party politics of the committee, that simply served to take away the debate time in the House. I think that is something that has to be revisited. If we are going to do that, fine, but then that should be added as another stage in the bill.

In other words, if it should be referred before second reading, when it comes to second reading then the debate on second reading should be exactly as it is now, with further referral to a committee. In other words, we should add an extra step because of the fact that the politics involved sometimes prevent real input into the formation of the bill.

A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed to have been moved.

[Standing Orders and Procedure, April 11th, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, I will have to hurry to get to everything I want to say in the few seconds I have left.

Earlier I was talking about votes. The next thing I want to say about votes is that our Standing Orders should be changed to allow, under exceptional circumstances, the ability of a member of Parliament to register his or her vote in important votes in the House of Commons even though they may not be present physically.

I am sure that all of us remember an important vote that was held, and I am not sure if it was the previous Parliament or just before Christmas. Lawrence O'Brien, who subsequently passed away, loyally came here under great duress because of physical circumstances to vote as was his duty as a member of Parliament. We have a number of members even now who are facing that same thing.

I would like to propose that our Standing Orders be changed so that a member who is woefully ill or has other such problems may, perhaps via his or her party whip, register that vote for those occasions only. It would have to be one at a time. In that way a person would not be disenfranchised because of something that would be totally out of his or her control.

I know that my time has now elapsed. I have about four more things that I would like to cover. If there is unanimous consent, I would be prepared to do that.

[Standing Orders and Procedure, April 11th, 2005]

Madam Speaker, I am sure people watching CPAC or from the gallery may be wondering why, when there are so many issues of considerable importance facing the country, we are spending this day talking about internal procedures?

It might be enlightening to them to know that today we are debating the Standing Orders, which are our rules of procedure and process in the House of Commons. They regulate debate, how it is conducted. They also regulate bills and motions, how they are handled, the votes and all these other things.

In fact, Standing Order 51 mandates that the debate must take place before the 90th sitting day of the current Parliament. Today, happens to be the 79th day. If we did not have the debate today, we would need to have it definitely within the next 11 days so we would meet that rule. That is one of the rules of the House. There are many rules that affect our debate.

In the few minutes I have, I would like to talk about some of the things that have struck me about how we do things around here.

One thing is not in the Standing Orders, but is a process. It has often struck me, particularly on Fridays, that we frequently finish the government business of the day before 1:30 p.m., which is the allocated time for private members' business to start. This also happens on some other days. Usually a member from the Liberal side will stand up and say, “Mr. Speaker or Madam Speaker”, as the case may be, “If you seek it, I think you would find unanimous consent to see the clock as 1:30 p.m.”. I look at the clock and I see that it is one o'clock or quarter to one.

We have in the House a considerable challenge to have people give us the highest respect. Our Standing Orders, among other things, say that we may not even hint at any possible dishonesty of another hon. member. We would never tell a lie. Yet on those occasions, we unanimously agree to tell one. I have always thought that was an anomaly, even though what is in the Standing Orders is that notwithstanding any of the Standing Orders, unanimous consent always takes precedence over whatever they say.

As a matter of process, I wish that from now on the Liberal member, instead of saying that the Speaker would find unanimous consent for us to agree to something that is not true, would say, “If you seek it, you would find unanimous consent that notwithstanding that it is not yet 1:30 p.m., we will proceed to private members' business anyway”. That would be a better way of putting it and it would be totally honest.

Nowadays Canadians are really searching for a higher degree of honesty, accountability and all those things from members of Parliament. It is a very trivial matter, but it is one that has occurred to me when I think about how we do things around here.

I have a couple of points also on private members' business, which are also covered in our Standing Orders. I am very proud of the fact that I was one of the instigators and instrumental in getting changes to the order of precedence for dealing with private members' business. Again, for those who are watching and who do not know how it works, members are chosen at random. It used to be that the names would be picked out of a hat for whose private members' business would be up for debate. Then those names would be put back. Over the 11-plus years in which I have been a member, it has annoyed me endlessly that members get up sometimes two or three times. In the now approaching 12 years, I have never once been chosen on that random list.

I am particularly unlucky. My colleague has advised me not to waste my money to buy lottery tickets. My level of luck is just so incredibly low.

We had the rule changed and I like it. Now, instead of having members chosen at random and names always being put back, the new version of the Standing Orders now says that all members will be put in random order and we work our way down the list. We do not re-scramble them until everyone has first been picked. This is based on what we used to do at camp. Nobody got seconds at mealtime until everyone had a first helping. I like that idea.

I luck out even on the new rules. The new rules state that all members are put in random order. I do not know where I am, but I am down around 280. Even though I have been waiting for three Parliaments, and I am now in my fourth, I still probably will not get my private member's bill up. I am so far down the list that this Parliament will collapse before I my name is ever drawn.

I would like to propose for consideration that those members who have been re-elected in a Parliament from the previous one and who in the previous Parliament did not have their names chosen be put in a random order list first and then everyone else in behind them.

The next thing I would like to talk about for a short length of time is the ringing of the bells. When it comes time to vote, and I will not go into detail, the bells are to ring either for 15 minutes or 30 minutes, depending on the nature of the vote and whether it was anticipated. Standing Order 45 explicitly says that the bells shall ring for not more than 15 minutes or not more than 30 minutes. We do not obey it. It says not more than 15 minutes, but I do not think I have ever seen a vote actually taken when the 15 minutes expired. When my hon. colleague from Wetaskiwin was the party whip, then that was pushed more strenuously. There is a very lax attitude toward this.

I think it would be useful to all members if the Standing Order was changed so that the bells shall ring not more than 40 minutes and not less than 20 minutes for the 30 minute bell so we have a margin, in other words. That means if it is a 30 minute bell, members would know they had to be in the House in 20 minutes. At any time after that, the vote could take place and at 40 minutes that is it, it is cut off.

The old Standing Orders used to say that the doors would be locked so members could neither leave nor come in late. We should do that so members who want to vote will be able to do in a timely manner, to be present and counted. It would not waste so much time for the rest of us.

Very often I find members bang their desks. I find that incredibly annoying. They should not do that. I have never done that in 11 years. It makes useless noise and shows disrespect. Members do that because they are impatient. They want the vote to start. I suggest that we have a limitation so members know where they are at.

Since I have a couple of minutes remaining, I hope to complete my comments after question period.