Ken Epp

[Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, February 5th, 2008]

Mr. Speaker, I want to take just a few moments to thank the member for her speech. I think she is thoughtful. She has expressed herself well.

I would ask her, though, this question: does she not see the danger of divulging to somebody who is actually guilty the source and nature of the evidence against him or her? It would put in danger those who were able to find the person and to arrest the person, because there invariably is a network of people involved in this. There are relationships built in order to infiltrate a group, so to speak, and this would put an end to that process and put the lives of those individuals in danger. If not with the process proposed in the bill, how would she handle it?

[Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, February 5th, 2008]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to point out with great clarity that the people addressed by this bill are not citizens of our country. Our primary responsibility is to protect Canadian citizens.

The other thing is that this bill is a correction to what was lacking, as identified by the court, in the previous legislation. This provides that people who are so accused would have a process whereby, outside of the people who arrested or detained them, someone independent from that such as a judge or an appointed lawyer who will operate in secret, in closed quarters, in camera, would hear the charges.

Frankly, I do not know why members of the House would fail to trust them. We have to have some trust in our own people, in our own system. They will not keep a person detained who in fact is innocent. That is why this process was brought in.

Unfortunately, we are dealing with people who have been arrested. I do not believe that our people just willy-nilly, at random, take a person off the street and say, “There is one. Let's arrest him”. I do not believe that.

In every instance, these people have had evidence collected against them and they are arrested with grounds. Bill C-3 corrects the deficiency so that there is a process, while at the same time addressing the problem of being falsely accused--

[Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, February 5th, 2008]

Mr. Speaker, it is probably true that it would have been better if we would have had a few more weeks to debate this. I will not argue that, recognizing the input from all of the members of Parliament in this esteemed chamber. However, I would like to point out that to draft legislation, especially when it is under the scrutiny of the Supreme Court, it takes time and it takes a great deal of care.

One cannot just wake up one day and decide to move a bill in the House whether one is the government or not. I am sure the hon. member who just spoke will probably never have any experience of actually being in government, but being here is, frankly, quite different from being in opposition. The onus is on the government to come up with legislation that does meet muster. This has been dealt with by our justice department and by the legal minds in that department. We sincerely hope that the fix they have put into the legislation, as required by the Supreme Court of Canada, will meet the approval of the courts and meet the approval of the people.

I also need to interject that some of the approaches that the NDP members are taking, not only here but also in terms of other justice issues, make me wonder whether they really are first and foremost on the side of law-abiding citizens of this country. Almost all of their debate is on the other side when someone does something wrong or contemplates something wrong; the something that is a distress and a danger to our society. I would urge the members of the NDP to stand up for the citizens more than for the criminals.

I like to live in a country where, if I am falsely accused, I have a right to defend myself. However, if someone is actually guilty, it is the job of our system to find him or her guilty and to hold him or her accountable. That is what we are all about here.

I really wish that the NDP would stop thinking of our law enforcement agencies, our police, our undercover people, our courts and the lawyers who work in those courts as the enemies. They are not the enemies. The real enemies are those who would destroy our society through violence.

[Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, February 5th, 2008]

Mr. Speaker, I have been in the House for over 14 years, as has the member opposite. I think we were elected on the same day in 1993.

Sitting in opposition, where the member now is, and observing the Liberal government over those years when it had a majority, and to now make any noise whatsoever about stifling or controlling debate in the House when the Liberals had a majority, my goodness, it is unbelievable.

However, I am sure all members understand that the reason for this motion is very clear. We have a deadline to meet. We must ensure that the people who have been arrested and who have been detained under these certificates are detained in order to provide safety.

I appeal to all members of the House, including the member who just spoke, to give the bill speedy passage, let it proceed through its normal stages and become law so our citizens can be secure in our country against these external threats.

[Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, February 5th, 2008]

Mr. Speaker, I am delighted to speak to this particular bill.

I want to say at the outset, and actually will be almost the brevity of my speech, that I support the bill wholeheartedly. It is a pragmatic necessity in the world in which we live. I think our duty as parliamentarians and as the House of Commons is to give speedy passage to the bill so we can continue, under the provisions of Bill C-3, to provide security and safety to Canadian citizens. That is a paramount duty and responsibility of government.

Therefore, I would urge all members of Parliament to give speedy passage to the bill so it can go through the process and become law prior to the deadline of February 23 so we can achieve what needs to be done.

In an attempt to help move the agenda forward and to get the bill passed, I move:

That this question be now put.

[Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, February 5th, 2008]

Mr. Speaker, I always enjoy speeches by this member. He is always methodical and as a mathematician I like that. When a person has points, one, two, three, four, I can follow what he is saying and I appreciate his dissertation.

The member has taken great umbrage with the concept that a person can be arrested and not even be told of the evidence. I agree with the member when he says that normally in Canada our justice system provides for an accused to defend himself or herself. That is good. That is the way it ought to be, but this is a very special case.

This is a case where individuals may be plotting terrorist acts against our citizens and against our country. These are people who probably do not know why they were picked up because someone, the colloquial term is snitched, said here are individuals who are a danger to society and turned them over to the authorities.

In this case if the individuals are actually part of a group that is planning some very bad actions in our country, these people, if they knew who it was or how it was that they became known, would undoubtedly get the word back and the informants who provided the information to increase the safety of Canadians could themselves then be a direct target of this group, that is, other people who were not arrested or who have not been arrested yet. Furthermore, it could result in people who are investigating blowing their cover and not being able to complete their investigation of other individuals who are a danger.

We must always make the assumption that people are innocent until proven guilty, but this is a special case and surely we must have room in our justice system to protect ourselves against these people who would engage in such nefarious activities.

[Government Accountability, February 5th, 2008]

Mr. Speaker, two years ago Canadians voted against Liberal scandal and corruption and they voted for a government that would bring accountability back to Ottawa. Canadian voters do not want to go back.

In his response to the Liberal sponsorship scandal, Justice Gomery outlined the need for tougher rules. Can the President of the Treasury Board tell us what the government has done to respond to Justice Gomery's recommendations?

[Death Penalty, January 31st, 2008]

Mr. Speaker, I noticed that the member said that she would support life imprisonment for murder. I wonder whether she would enlighten the House on her definition of life imprisonment.

Florida, for example, has what is called a toe-tag sentence. In other words, if individuals commit a serious, multiple murder crime, they will be in prison until they go out on a slab with a tag on their toe identifying their body. It is life until natural death in prison.

In Canada right now it is 25 years nominally. In some cases prisoners can apply for early parole at 15 years. It is still a life sentence but only 25 years are actually served in jail.

I wonder what level of life imprisonment she would support for people who commit heinous crimes.

[Criminal Code, January 29th, 2008]

Mr. Speaker, recently a constituent of mine was defrauded of a great deal of money, over $100,000, in fact, because he foolishly visited one of these websites where somebody from Africa said that she was a poor orphan girl, her family got killed and she had all this money but was asking for help in getting it. He bought into that.

I am wondering whether this legislation does anything at all to address that issue with international groups that are scamming people, that are trying to suck them in, get information from them, get them to advance money to them and so on. Is that issue addressed by this legislation or is that another issue?

[Unborn Victims of Crime Act, December 13th, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, that is a very good question. I urge the member to actually read the bill. It says specifically in the bill that the attacker must have intent. He must know that the woman is pregnant. He must intend to injure the child. Remember that this is a separate offence. The offence against the woman would be there in any case in terms of charges being laid. But if the attacker intends to harm the child and he knows, or ought to have known, that the woman was pregnant, then there is room for a second offence to be laid because he harmed the child. That is not available in the present law.