House of Commons photoWon his last election, in 2011, with 41% of the vote.
Foreign Affairs June 6th, 2008
Mr. Speaker, when will the government recognize that this is not a matter of privacy, this is not about someone's private life, this is about the public responsibilities of the Government of Canada?
Surely to goodness, the Prime Minister of Canada must have been informed by the police about Madam Couillard.
Foreign Affairs June 6th, 2008
Mr. Speaker, it is true there is no danger of a Conservative minister appearing in a good looking photograph. I agree with that statement. There is no danger of that happening.
But let us get back to the question at hand.
Foreign Affairs June 6th, 2008
Mr. Speaker, the fact that Ms. Couillard was under police surveillance is not a private matter but a public one. That is now clear. It is ironic that the security system of the Hells Angels and Mom Boucher is better and more professional than that of the Government of Canada. This is ridiculous.
Is the government serious when it says that the police did not speak to the government about Ms. Couillard?
Foreign Affairs June 6th, 2008
Mr. Speaker, my question is, in the absence of others, to the government House leader. I would like to ask the minister this question.
It is now clear that Madam Couillard has been a person of interest to the police, not only in Quebec but the RCMP, for over 10 years. Is it still the position of the government and is it still asking us to believe that in fact no one from the police contacted the Prime Minister and provided him with any information with regard to--
Business of Supply June 5th, 2008
I know that, Mr. Speaker, and I will correct it right away. The member should have stated what the commissioner said. She said that the member for West Nova always acted in good faith. Because the member for West Nova always had acted in good faith, I do not think it is right or appropriate for any member of the House to talk about him having been found guilty of something. There is no guilt involved.
It is a contravention of the code, which was caused unwittingly, and it could have happened to any one of us. I do not think any one of us ever thought that the implication of the code was as soon as someone stood up to sue us that suddenly we would prevented from participating in the rest of debate.
However, when the member talks about exoneration, the member for West Nova still faces a very powerful lawsuit from a very powerful and well financed individual, an individual who he has to deal with as a citizen of Canada. He will deal with that in whatever way he can and he will deal with it as best he can.
The suggestion that the existence of that lawsuit should prevent the member for West Nova from participating in the parliamentary life of this Parliament and from participating in debates is, on balance, a judgment which is simply too harsh. It is one that members should state their views to the commissioner as to how they feel about whether in their judgment this necessarily is the kind of thing we intended.
I do not believe we ever intended that the existence of a lawsuit relating to our responsibilities as members of Parliament would prevent us from participating in parliamentary debate and decisions. This was never our collective intention, and I do not believe that the decision can be allowed to stand for that reason.
Business of Supply June 5th, 2008
Mr. Speaker, with great respect to my colleague from Orangeville, sometimes when I say something, it is not because I have some other intention. It is because that is what I actually believe. I actually believe there is a problem created when a libel suit prevents a member from doing his job. I actually believe the way to settle libel suits is to settle them in court. Of course they are public, of course they are known, of course they are disclosed, but that should not prevent a member from participating fully in the life of Parliament or from exercising his or her judgment.
The purpose of a conflict of interest code is to prevent real conflict. It is to prevent situations where interests are either not disclosed, are secret or are not there, or, for example, when one benefits personally from something which the member has not disclosed. That is the purpose.
This is not some partisan thing. I suspect there will be members of the New Democratic Party, of the Bloc and others, and I would hope individual members of the Conservative Party, who would understand, with great respect to the member, that free speech is not just bunk. It is a reality at which we have to look. Yes, the interests of the member for West Nova have been affected in terms of his duties in the House.
You said the member for West Nova has be “exonerated”. First, he was actually exonerated by the Ethics Commissioner. What she said was, and you have not had the courtesy to quote this in the House in all of your submissions today—
Business of Supply June 5th, 2008
Mr. Speaker, I rise in my place because I have been listening with interest to the debate and the comments of my friend from Orangeville and others who I have known in other assemblies and other places and since my existence in other assemblies seems to have become a matter of some interest.
I do want to reflect on this issue since I have been a member of this place and a member of the Legislative Assembly of Ontario and having spent the better part of my public life in elected assemblies of one kind or another. Obviously all of us read the decision of the Ethics Commissioner with a great deal of interest and a great deal of concern.
I want to state for the record that there is a lot of talk on the other side of someone having been found guilty. What the commissioner in fact found was that there was a contravention of the code, as she interpreted it, made in good faith by the member for West Nova, who is a parliamentarian of great standing and goodwill, and that is recognized.
I think all parliamentarians would recognize that there is a problem with making the connection between a “liability”, which arises, according to the judgment of the Ethics Commissioner, of any lawsuit and saying that any lawsuit gives rise to a liability; the mere existence of a lawsuit gives rise to a liability; the liability gives rise to something that is called a private interest; and the private interest then creates the conflict.
With great respect to the Ethics Commissioner, I think that the House itself has to now give real consideration to this. I do not think there is any argument with the efforts that the commissioner has made to be faithful to the code as she has seen it. However, I do have a great deal of difficulty with the notion that any libel suit that is carried out against a member of Parliament for whatever purpose, or with whatever intention in mind, should necessarily have the effect of denying that member the ability to carry on his or her responsibilities as a member of Parliament.
There is a brief reference in the commissioner's judgment to the possibility of a chilling effect but, with great respect to the commissioner, that chilling effect has been somewhat underestimated.
It is important for us to be as precise as we can as well about the exact recommendation that is being made by my colleague, the member for Scarborough—Rouge River, whose interest in these matters is extensive and whose knowledge and interest in questions of the privileges of members of Parliament is quite extensive.
What we are simply asking is that there be an exemption when it comes to the question of a private interest and that exemption would consist of being a party to a legal action relating to actions of the member as a member of Parliament. It is important for the public to understand that if any of us have private businesses and we are sued in the course of those private businesses, that issue that should becomes an issue of concern in terms of declaring what one's private interests are.
However, to assert that because the member for West Nova was sued by the former prime minister of Canada because of comments he allegedly made on the Mike Duffy Live program, in direct connection to the events surrounding the relationship between the former prime minister and Karlheinz Schreiber, which has been a matter of direct interest to all of us and a direct interest to the member for West Nova in his parliamentary responsibilities, and the idea that the very existence of that lawsuit, whatever its foundation may happen to be, should itself prevent the member for West Nova from carrying on his parliamentary responsibilities, he should recuse himself from any votes and recuse himself from any participation in discussions affecting this question of broader public interest, I have some real difficulty with that and, frankly, surprised by the members of the Conservative Party. This is not an issue that is related to the Conservatives, the Liberals, the New Democrats or members of the Bloc.
It is not a partisan issue. It is an issue that affects all of us as members of this House. And that is why we must speak openly about the possible consequences of legal action against a member because of his or her work. It could compromise members' abilities to exercise their own judgment as well as their full participation in public debates, which is an important aspect of the lives of all members.
As opposed, perhaps, to some of my other interventions in this place, this is not an intervention that is made by pointing fingers at the other side. It is made by simply asking this question. Is it not at least a possibility that the effect of this ruling would be to say to businesses or others, who are affected by debates in the House, that if they want to silence member of Parliament X or member of Parliament Y, there is a very simple way to do it, and that is simply to sue the member for something either he or she allegedly said or did not say?
In the eyes of the commissioner, the simple existence of the lawsuit, whether it has been heard by a court, according to the commissioner, creates the liability, which creates the interest which creates the need to disclose and which, in the case of the member of West Nova, creates in her judgment the need for him to recuse himself from any further discussion.
I believe that this touches on the responsibilities of members of Parliament and, frankly, touches on the question of how certain powerful interests, which can afford lawyers, lawsuits and to do this, can look at this ruling and say that here is the way to shut down, here is the way to stop so and so from saying anything and here is the way to stop so and so from participating in the debate.
What we are saying in our recommendation, in terms of the amendment to the code, is where lawsuits arise, not from our private activities, or our business activities, or our commercial activities, or anything else we might be doing with our lives, but from the exercise of our responsibilities as members of Parliament, we should not be prevented from participating in the life of Parliament as a result of those lawsuits.
The amendment proposed by my colleague, the member for Scarborough—Rouge River, is reasonable. It should be discussed by all members of Parliament and should be dealt with on that basis. We need to spend some time this evening reflecting on this as we go forward.
I am somebody who has been sued, although I have no live ones going on at present. I can assure everyone it has taken place in the past, as it inevitably does in this hurly, burly life that we lead in politics. It is a simple fact of life that these things happen.
If we are to do our jobs, it is very hard for us to see how the commissioner's ruling can be maintained as a ruling that will, in a sense, control our daily lives. I think there are charter implications for what the commissioner has said. She is stretching the definition of what a real liability is. Anybody suing somebody, could say now there is a liability, not knowing whether that claim is real, or serious or based in fact.
It would be wiser for us to say that where we are exercising our duties as members of Parliament, the mere existence of a lawsuit against us as members of Parliament for doing our job as members of Parliament does not create a liability and therefore does not create a conflict.
Automotive Industry June 5th, 2008
Why would Ontario be the last place to invest?
Foreign Affairs June 5th, 2008
Mr. Speaker, to get back to the subject matter in question, I wonder if the minister can account for the clear contradiction between the statements that are contained in today's Toronto Star from officials in the Department of Foreign Affairs, statements that are on the record, and the statements that are made by the Prime Minister.
Would he not agree that the only fair and public way to resolve this is to allow Parliament and a parliamentary committee to do its job and review the whole situation?
Foreign Affairs June 5th, 2008
Mr. Speaker, we have not seen the terms of reference of this so-called review by the Department of Foreign Affairs. All we have is a background statement from an official saying, “They are not all traceable. Some of them are traceable”.
How could it be that the government is asking the very department, that is unable to account for the documents, to review the problem which is now before the House of Commons?