Brian Murphy

[Business of Supply, June 15th, 2006]

Mr. Speaker, my question will focus on the issue of our cities. I probably missed my opportunity with the previous speaker to put this more plainly.

The infrastructure program created by the Liberal Party, with some very good help from the leader of the NDP in a former life, was completely ignored, downplayed and not re-fulfilled. The minister has to read his own budget to see this was ignored.

As my friend opposite knows, many of our seniors are dependent on fixed incomes. Many of them live in cities and are faced with rising property taxes, water charges, sewer charges, and so on, and these charges continue to grow while aging infrastructures are not being improved.

The Conservative government has abandoned the idea of dealing with cities as entities and dealing with them as equal partners at the table. I want to know what the member thinks, without too much prompting, about the future of our Canadian cities as it relates to the fixed costs that seniors have with respect to houses that they own and have paid for in our communities.

[Criminal Code, June 13th, 2006]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, this is only the second time I have spoken in this House.

I would like to thank the people of Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe for their support in the recent election.

I would like to underline that Moncton hosted the Memorial Cup. It is a hockey town and a Hockeyville, but that Memorial Cup was sponsored by MasterCard and what a fitting title for the MasterCard Memorial Cup when we are talking about identity theft and credit card misuse.

The issue of identity theft is becoming a concern for many Canadian citizens and the media reminds us of this daily. Canadians want to know that their information is safe and that misuse of their personal information will not take place. The unfortunate reality is that in Canada we are known for our mass marketing frauds. Many fraudsters operate from this country targeting Americans, the British, and to a lesser degree our own Canadian citizens. Let us not forget the Nigerian scams that Canadians and many others have been subjected to for a number of years.

One goal of these fraudsters is to gain the personal information of their victims and to use this information to further their illegal schemes. One example of the use of personal information is to obtain a credit card in the name of an innocent victim and use the card to its maximum without of course making any payments. It may take months, maybe years, for the payments to be made and the victims are probably not in a position to re-establish their credit rating.

In the United States data brokers are being sued by the trade commissioner of that country for the acts that are impugned in this proposed act. Unfortunately, many of our global partners are of the opinion that not enough is being done in this country to curtail this illegal activity and in that vein I welcome this bill.

Our American counterparts are being told by Canadian agencies, such as the RCMP, that it is better to have those committing the frauds from Canada on American victims deported to the United States so proper sanctions can take place. In the United Kingdom the information commissioner has just released his report on this very vexing problem.

Bill C-299 puts us on the right track. It targeted the existing problem, but does it go far enough? That is the question.

First and foremost is the definition given to personal information. Bill C-299, the bill in question, uses the definition found in PIPEDA. We ask ourselves whether that goes far enough. Personal information in that regard means information about an identifiable individual, but does not include the name, title or business address or telephone number of an employee or organization.

PIPEDA is designed to protect people. The hon. member plucked the definition of personal information from the act without perhaps giving it some thought, which at committee it will likely get, to ensure that the information which is stolen is in fact valuable information which does include the name, title and business address of the person in question. Otherwise, what use would the information be? The definition section may be a minor thing. With all due respect to the hon. member, that begs the question: Why limit the definition of personal information? A better definition could be drafted.

The material sought to be protected is also very much in question. By simply shadowing the definition found in another act of Parliament, it probably does not go far enough. It is necessary to broaden the definition with a non-exhaustive list. We should think wide if we are trying to protect our citizens.

In the proposed amendment to subsection 362(1), the offence in question is obtaining personal information from a third party. This subsection does not create the offence that is necessary in order to combat the theft or illegal use of personal information.

This amendment does not properly address the unlawful conduct that is at the crux of this problem. In its present state, the amendment to the Criminal Code does not deal with the victim who is directly targeted. Should the offence not be “obtains from any person”, and this would be more Catholic, if we like, and would be more inclusive. The argument will be made that a third party is a person who facilitates the obtaining of the personal information. It does not automatically follow that it comes directly from a victim.

The term “third party” is ambiguous and must be replaced by “any person”. It removes the ambiguity and it gives greater protection to Canadian citizens.

Further, the amendment to the Criminal Code limits that the personal information was obtained by false pretence or by fraud. If the mover were serious about tackling the misuse of personal information, and I have no doubt that he is, with his integrity and track record in Parliament, why would we limit the unlawful manner in which the material is obtained?

I suggest that the proper amendment should be “obtains in any manner”. It therefore does not really matter whether it is obtained falsely, which is certainly bad, or illegally, which is very bad. If it is obtained in any way and misused, that is the crime that should be protected as well. We could of course be looking at tiers or subsections to an amendment to the Criminal Code.

Finally, the information could be acquired illegally and used for an illegal purpose. This is very debatable. I really do look forward to the debate in committee on this. Law enforcement officials and in some cases journalists, ombudspeople, and committees recently created that I am on studying Bill C-2 may in fact find ways and means to use information for illegal purpose. This either must be eliminated completely or addressed in a section of this amendment.

I am not of the same mind as my hon. friend across the way that there must be an exemption, but there probably could be an exemption for illegally obtained information which is used for illegal purpose, and it should be in the section.

Clearly, the use to be made of the obtained personal information must then be attacked, but the offence is to use the material for a fraudulent purpose. Whether it is for personation, to utter forged documents, et cetera, the issue is one where the use of the material needs to be dealt with.

We talked about credit card fraud, which I think is on everybody's minds, but these uses, these personations and using personal information can be a lot less illegal and a lot less damaging, but nonetheless deserve the same protection under this law. The amendment does not deal with the person who steals personal information directly.

An example is the thief who enters a residence and sees the personal documents on a table. Many people just keep their PINs for the ABMs and Aeroplan points and so on by the phone in case they forget them. That personal information, including the social insurance number, might just be there for a thief to see. It might be a friendly worker who appropriates this information.

This information could be used to obtain a credit card and to use the credit card. The victim is not aware of any loss since a theft, as defined by the Criminal Code, never occurred. A year or so later the victim applies for credit and we know the rest of the story. He or she is refused because of a bad credit rating.

In its present form then, Bill C-299 deals with the matter in a less than complete way. On the other hand, should the thief sell the information, he or she may fall within one of the amended sections. This cannot be the intent of the amendment to the Criminal Code.

The other proposed amendments to the Canada Evidence Act and the Competition Act are made as a result of those made to the Criminal Code. I applaud the part of my colleague's bill that creates a civil wrong, or a tort, out of what we always thought of as a criminal act. I cannot say enough about how important it is for government to have hybrid motions and bills like this which encompass both the civil reality and civil loss.

The previous comments apply. The CEA and the Criminal Code must reflect that the personal information may be obtained in any manner. The use of the material is the crux of the issue, I submit.

Bill C-299 is a good idea in principle. I congratulate the hon. member.

The issue of dealing with personal information is complex and must be dealt with effectively. In its present form, this bill needs some work.

To combat the theft and the misuse of personal information, it is necessary, however, to draft a more comprehensive bill attacking the problem from all angles.

Only in this way will we be able to protect all Canadians' personal information.

[Criminal Code, June 13th, 2006]

Mr. Speaker, this is a very thoughtful bill. In the brief time the member had, I know he did not have time to canvass what was going on in the rest of the world, from a law reform point of view.

He will know that the U.S. Trade Commissioner often and routinely prosecutes such crimes as are codified in the United States. He will also likely know that the United Kingdom information commissioner has tabled a report before the Parliament of Westminster on this very topic.

In principle, I support the bill, but in all fairness it has certain gaps and lacks clarity in some respects. Could he elucidate for the members of the House what is going on internationally, which might aid in beefing his bill up or making it certain for more clarity?

[Prostitution, June 12th, 2006]

Mr. Speaker, as Canadians we have a lot to be proud of, but we must take responsibility for the not so great. It is shameful that with all we know that the continued abuse and victimization of women and children exists in our society.

The sex trade creates many victims. Some people from my town see this every day. People are fed up with seeing drug and prostitution paraphernalia littered through their neighbourhoods and have taken matters into their own hands by creating a group called Residents Against Street Solicitation.

It is known as RASS, Residents against Street Prostitution and Solicitation.

I call on the government to stand up for women and children, and provide more resources and social programs to women in need.

Prostitution is a problem that illustrates the social inequalities between the sexes. The government wants to protect men with guns, but is doing very little to assist women and their families. If it is not right for our daughters, mothers or our wives, it is not right for any woman.

[Witness Protection Program Act, June 8th, 2006]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the member for his speech and all of the thoughts he expressed.

In the domain of justice, there are resources that probably need to be applied to such a program, if it were expanded. Has done any consultation with the various providers of these services, I think particularly of provincial governments and the like, to see if resources would be needed for this? If that is the case, does he think his bill inferentially calls for an expenditure of money or will there be an increased transfer in the fiscal imbalance talks to provinces to take care of his bill should it be successful?

[Business of Supply, June 8th, 2006]

Mr. Speaker, I want to ask my colleague and neighbour two questions on perhaps gaps in his commentary.

Since we now know that the tax credit for buses was really designed as an economic development plan to send Atlantic Canadians to Fort McMurray, would he comment on that?

Perhaps he would also comment on something that dovetails with his support of post-secondary education and that is the growing gap between provinces on literacy. He knows well that regions of our province are suffering with 50% to 60% literacy rates when the national average is 73%. It obviously ties into economic development. I would be interested in his comments.

[Criminal Code, June 6th, 2006]

Mr. Speaker, first I would like to thank the member for his comments. I am a lawyer as well and I am proud of my profession. It is good to hear the opinions of lawyers in this House. In my view, this government has been battling the judiciary for some time.

For example, there was the attack against the chief justice and rejection by the government of the recommendation of the Judicial Salary and Benefits Commission. Now there are two bills against justices and their discretionary power.

I completely agree with the member's comments. However, he omitted one thing on which I would like to hear his opinion: the failure to provide resources to the community after adoption of these bills. We must recognize that a much greater burden will be placed on communities. This requires probation supervisors in prisons.

The budgets provide $200 million for prisons, but only $20 million for community resources. This is not enough. I would like to hear the member's views on this.

[Criminal Code, June 2nd, 2006]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member's comments tell me that he has first-hand knowledge of the effects of how the Criminal Code is an organic concept and has to grow with the times and the conditions of our community.

It also appears to me that he is right on the money when he says that legislation is a blunt instrument. In this case, this blunt instrument, written on the back of a napkin, with the government attempting to railroad it through the commons, has many gaps, as he so rightly pointed out.

I have a question for the member. Does he agree with me that at committee, or somewhere else, this bill can be fixed by looking at the types of offences and removing those for which conditional sentences, with proper supervision, will work?

As a secondary part of my point, does he think, in his first-hand experience and the experience of his years as an MP, that one of the problems with conditional sentences, which has led to the impression of many on the other side that they do not work, is that the supervisory aspect inherent in conditional sentencing has fallen down because of a lack of resources committed to those supervisors? Frankly, they are swamped.

[Criminal Code, June 2nd, 2006]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the hon. member for her insight. Obviously there are many problems with the bill.

In previous questioning on the bill, some Conservative members seem to have understood that the bill only applies to violent crimes. Clearly it has a much wider application than that. In light of that and all of the comments we have heard from professors and people in the field of criminology and in this House through a very good debate, does the member think this bill can be saved at committee? Does she think the government took the time necessary to go through all of the applications? Obviously it is clear that the government's own members, some of them big spokesmen on crime and justice, do not even understand it. Can the bill be saved?

[Criminal Code, June 2nd, 2006]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his comments.

I have a few questions about financial crimes. Unfortunately, people have stolen money from trust and pension funds. Under Canada's current system, the judge can choose to apply conditional sentencing. This allows the conditionally sentenced thief to work to pay back the money stolen. With Bill C-9, the government would completely eliminate this option.

Would the member agree to a conditional sentencing system for those convicted of financial crimes?