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Crucial Fact

  • His favourite word was fact.

Last in Parliament March 2011, as Liberal MP for Richmond Hill (Ontario)

Lost his last election, in 2011, with 35% of the vote.

Statements in the House

Federal-Provincial Fiscal Arrangements Act October 30th, 2003

Mr. Speaker, I realize that the Bloc is trying to demonstrate in its view why this federation does not work and its attempt to try and delay this legislation is a good example.

I really believe the member, who I thought would be much more thoughtful in her comments for someone who has negotiated for 15 years, has demonstrated a lack of understanding. The legislation is an insurance policy but that party over there does not believe that. I cannot believe the hypocrisy of that party. If on April 16 we do not, for whatever reason, have an agreement and the moneys do not flow, those members will be complaining bitterly. They will be raising the roof in here.

The member is right on one point. On April 10 the Minister of Finance had very useful and productive meetings with his counterparts, and the negotiations are going on.

I want the Bloc members to get one thing straight because I am tired of listening to them say that this has suddenly appeared. The fact is that negotiations are going on and they are going well. Nobody said there were no negotiations. What we are saying is that in the unlikely event we have an insurance policy.

This is not sinister. I realize that they think everything we do here is sinister but this is something that the provinces need. They want it and they expect it. There are no surprises. This is like the Holiday Inn. There are no surprises.

We assume, because the provinces are supportive and we are having good negotiations, that this is just an insurance policy. However the Bloc members, because that is their nature, think this is some sinister plot, and they bring all sorts of other things into this which are not germane to this debate.

If there is no agreement in place after March 31 and the first payments do not arrive in Quebec on April 16, I defy the member to stand up and say that it is okay because it was her party that opposed the legislation to have insurance.

Federal-Provincial Fiscal Arrangements Act October 30th, 2003

Mr. Speaker, this bill has four clauses and they are not very long. The problem is that the Bloc has failed again to read the bill.

The issue here is an insurance policy with regard to equalization. It is to ensure that in the unlikely event that we do not have an agreement by March 31 that the payments to the provinces, including Quebec, will continue to flow.

We talk about sincerity. If the Bloc members were really sincere, they would realize that the government did not cut equalization even during program review. This has been a cornerstone of the government.

We have had a successful meeting between the Minister of Finance and his provincial counterparts on October 10.

The member for Niagara Centre understands the bill completely which is why he supports it. He does not understand why there is a problem and I do not understand either.

The fact is that it is insurance. The discussions are ongoing and if Bloc members have any valid issues with regard to equalization, that is fine. However, this is not the bill dealing with that. It is simply dealing with insurance.

However, Bloc members will stand up on April 16 and scream if money is not flowing to Quebec because they did not support this insurance policy which is Bill C-54.

I know it is hard, but could we stick to the issue? If Bloc members want to talk about something else, they can do it at another time.

I would like to ask the member, if we do not have an insurance policy in place, is she going to say to the House that it is fine, no money to Quebec? Obviously not.

Federal-Provincial Fiscal Arrangements Act October 30th, 2003

Mr. Speaker, this debate would be wonderful if it were held at another time. The reality is the legislation before the House is an insurance policy to extend--

Federal-Provincial Fiscal Arrangements Act October 30th, 2003

Mr. Speaker, clearly that member and the Bloc have not read the bill. The bill has nothing to do with the issue he has raised. This is an insurance policy. Currently, the Minister of Finance is meeting with his counterparts. As members know, they met on October 10, they are continuing these discussions and they will meet again.

As far as what will happen in the future, that is something we are anxious to resolve. Obviously, by March 31 we want to have the agreement in place. However, in the unlikely event that we do not have an agreement, this insurance policy will ensure that moneys continue to flow to Quebec and the other seven provinces.

The fact is, without this legislation, there will be no money, and I am sure that member will have the audacity on April 16 to stand and say “Where is the money?” There is no money because his party is holding up Bill C-54. We need to have this in place as an insurance policy.

We have two tracks here. One track is negotiating with the provincial governments. The meetings have gone very well, and I again emphasize that.

If we do not have an agreement at the end of March, although unlikely, I assume that member would support insurance just as he would on his house or his car? He gets it not because he hopes he will have to cash it in, but for protection.

Federal-Provincial Fiscal Arrangements Act October 30th, 2003

Mr. Speaker, I listened to the member and I have to say that I am perplexed as to what the member is trying to suggest. She is suggesting on the one hand that the government should come up with a new equalization formula with the provinces, which is in fact what we are doing. We have had very good discussions with the provinces. The member mentioned that the Minister of Finance met with his counterparts on October 10. It was a very useful and fruitful discussion and it is an ongoing process. We want to get it right.

On the other hand, the member seems to think that there is something objectionable or mischievous about the government introducing legislation that essentially is an insurance policy to ensure that in the unlikely event that we do not conclude an agreement by March 31 the first payment would roll out on April 16. That member would stand up and complain on April 16 if in fact equalization payments did not go forward.

Even when we were looking at cutting costs during the mid-1990s, equalization payments were not affected at all. The government believes very strongly in equalization. It is the cornerstone of the government and we continue to support it. We have had, as I have said, very useful and fruitful negotiations and discussions with the provinces.

However it is prudent management to ensure we have a contingency where if in fact it did not happen on March 31, the payments would still flow up to a year. Nova Scotia wants that. British Columbia wants that. The provinces want that. We have been discussing in good faith and I think the member has been suggesting that we have not.

Would the member rather we not introduce this, that we continue to have negotiations and if for some unforeseen reason we do not get an agreement, that payments would end after March 31? If that is what she wants to tell the Canadian people, that she and her party do not want to have that extra bit of insurance, then she should say so.

I believe this is the right thing to do. I have not heard anyone suggest for a moment that we have not been discussing with our provincial counterparts in good faith.

Yes, the member is absolutely right. Every five years we do this. However for her to suggest that because we are in October and this ends in March we are doing it at the last minute, I do not think so. What we are trying to do is make sure we have the insurance.

How does she respond to the issue that if we do not introduce this and something unforeseen happens, the payments will not flow?

Federal-Provincial Fiscal Arrangements Act October 30th, 2003

Mr. Speaker, is that not typical of the NDP? Instead of praising the government for the removal of the ceiling, for having a floor there now, we are now hearing about this arbitrary ceiling.

We on this side of the House work with our partners. We responded by removing the ceiling. That was a problem. We did that, of course, because of the situation. The problem in this House is that hon. members like to ask questions but they do not want to hear the answers because of course they do not care about the answers. They are only interested in scoring cheap political points.

The point is that this government responded effectively by removing the ceiling and putting in the floor. We do not need any lessons from the NDP members. All they need to worry about is that we are going to move ahead, and if those members really are concerned then that member will stand up and get her party to support this legislation.

Federal-Provincial Fiscal Arrangements Act October 30th, 2003

First of all, Mr. Speaker, surely with all her years of experience the hon. member knows that the negotiations are between the Government of Canada and the provinces. These are negotiations. This is not a one way street.

How can that member stand in her place and have the audacity to say that we have not been listening when the Prime Minister responded in February with the removal of the ceiling, something the provinces wanted? The Prime Minister responded. She is now asking why it is taking so long. We are not going to make this agreement on the back of an envelope, which I know some of the parties over there are good at doing. We do not do that. What we do is sit down and make sure we do it right, and we are going to do it right with the provinces.

This is an insurance policy. Presumably the member has house insurance. I assume she hopes she never has a fire, but she has an insurance policy just in case. We do not expect to have a problem, but in the meantime it is prudent to have this.

I do not know when the House is going to adjourn, but I can say that in the meantime the onus is on all members in the House to make sure the legislation is passed so that the provinces will be assured of receiving continual revenues in the unlikely event. Again I will point out that the minister is working with his counterparts in good faith. I know, whether it is Nova Scotia or Manitoba, that they are very interested in making sure that we continue to have this in place. We are negotiating in good faith. I do not expect any difficulties, but again, this is a contingency. Again let me say that I pointed out in my speech a number of the areas the government has responded to, including the ceiling issue.

Federal-Provincial Fiscal Arrangements Act October 30th, 2003

Mr. Speaker, obviously the member's question is predicated on a false premise. The fact is that we are taking precautionary measures and making contingencies just in case. However, I am sure the hon. member would rise in her chair on April 16, 2004, and complain bitterly if in fact there were no insurance policy, no agreement and no money flowing to the Province of Quebec and every other entitled province.

The fact is that this is a prudent thing to do. The negotiations are continuing. Anyone who paid attention to the Minister of Finance's meetings with his counterparts on October 10 knows that they went very well. Those discussions are continuing.

We do not expect there to be a problem, but the fact is, of course, that it is only prudent to have this legislation in place in the unlikely event, and I would think that the member would in fact appreciate that and would realize that without this, if there were no agreement, there would be no moneys flowing after April 16. That is not something she wants to see and it is certainly not something the government wants to see.

Federal-Provincial Fiscal Arrangements Act October 30th, 2003

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to speak today at second reading of Bill C-54, which amends the Federal-Provincial Fiscal Arrangements Act with respect to the equalization program.

Briefly, the bill would provide the Minister of Finance with the authority to continue to make equalization payments according to the current formula for up to a year in the event that new legislation is not in place by April 1, 2004.

Let me stress “in the event”. The fact is that the minister has had very productive meetings with his provincial and territorial counterparts in October of this year and this is simply an insurance so that if in fact for some reason by April 1 we do not have in place a new agreement, when April 16 rolls around, we can continue to pay. Therefore, it is nothing more than an insurance policy.

I am sure all members of the House would want to ensure that this is in place so that on April 16 the payments can continue.

Before reviewing the measures in Bill C-54, I first want to set the legislation in context. No discussion of the equalization program can take place without a discussion of the overall federal transfer system and the role of equalization within that system.

As hon. members know, the federal government, in partnership with the provinces and territories, plays a key role in supporting the Canadian health system and other social programs. The provinces and the territories deliver their own health care, education and social services, while the federal government provides them with annual financial assistance through transfer payments.

In 2003-04 it is expected that provincial and territorial governments will receive $51.6 billion in federal transfers. Because of transfers, all Canadians can expect equal access to public health care, a safety net to support those most in need and the freedom to move throughout the country to seek work, higher education and training available to all who qualify and reasonably comparable services in whatever province one chooses to live.

The federal government provides the large majority of the transfers to the provinces and territories through four major transfer programs: the Canadian health and social transfer; equalization; territorial formula financing; and the new health reform transfer, which was created as a result of the February 2003 first ministers health care agreement.

I would like to briefly review each of these programs beginning with the Canada health and social transfer, the CHST. A block fund, the Canada health and social transfer is the largest federal transfer providing provinces and territories with cash payments and tax transfers in support of health care, post-secondary education, social assistance and social services, including early childhood development.

The CHST upholds the five medicare principles of the Canada Health Act: universality, comprehensiveness, accessibility, portability and public administration. It also ensures that no minimum residency period is required to receive social assistance. In 2003-04 the federal government will provide $37.9 billion to the provinces and territories through the CHST and the CHST supplement.

Hon. members will recall that the CHST will be restructured, as of April 1, 2004, into separate transfers: the Canada health transfer, the CHT, and a Canada social transfer, the CST, to increase transparency and accountability.

I want to speak for a moment about tax transfers because this is one of the least understood aspects of the CHST, despite the fact that tax transfers are absolutely fundamental as to how the program functions.

A tax transfer provides the same support as a cash transfer. The tax transfer component of the CHST occurred in 1977 when the federal government agreed with provincial and territorial governments to reduce its personal and corporate income tax rates, thus allowing them to raise their tax rates by the same amount.

As a result, revenue that would have flowed to the federal government began to flow directly to provincial and territorial governments. The net impact of the tax point transfers on taxpayers is zero, but the impact on the federal-provincial governments is real.

The second transfer is the health reform transfer through which the federal government will provide $16 billion over five years to assist the provinces and territories in accelerating health care reforms, which were identified in the 2003 first ministers accord. These reforms include primary health care, home care and catastrophic drug coverage.

The federal government will ensure that the level of funding provided through the health reform transfer is integrated into the new Canada health transfer starting in 2008-09.

I would also like to mention that federal government funding under the CHST and the new health reform transfer is provided on an equal per capita basis to ensure equal support to all Canadians regardless of their place of residence.

An equalization program, which I will discuss in more detail in a moment, is the third major federal transfer. This program ensures that the less prosperous provinces will have sufficient revenue to provide reasonably comparable levels of public services at reasonably comparable levels of taxation.

The fourth federal transfer is the territorial formula financing, the TFF, which recognizes unique challenges and costs of providing services in the north. The TFF ensures that the territorial governments can provide a range of public services to their residents comparable to those offered by provincial governments. In 2003-04 federal payments provided under the TFF will total almost $1.7 billion.

Hon. members may be interested to know that the federal cash transfers are forecast to grow at an average rate of 7.7% between 2000-01 and 2004-05, substantially higher than projected growth in federal revenues.

Let me turn now to a more detailed discussion of the subject of today's debate, equalization.

I hope my colleagues on the other side of the House will really understand that this is simply an insurance policy, and not anything else, to ensure that those revenues continue to go to provinces after April 16. In many ways equalization is a program that expresses the generous spirit of Canada.

Equalization has been in existence since 1957 and has played an important role in defining the Canadian federation. It is unique among federal transfers in that its objective was entrenched in the Canadian Constitution in 1982.

According to the Constitution, the program's purpose is to ensure that the less prosperous provinces can provide reasonably comparable public services without their taxes being out of line with those of the more affluent provinces.

At present eight provinces qualify for federal support under equalization: Newfoundland and Labrador, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Quebec, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and British Columbia. Ontario and Alberta are not eligible.

The fact that equalization was one of the few programs which was exempt from restraint measures during the mid-1990s illustrates the importance that this government attaches to this program. The government clearly understands what equalization means to receiving provinces.

I should also mention that equalization payments are unconditional. Receiving provinces are free to spend the funds on public services according to their own priorities. In 2003-04 provinces will receive approximately $10.1 billion in funding equalization payments from the federal government.

Hon. members may be interested to know how the program works.

Let me begin by pointing out that equalization is the most important federal program for reducing the differences in the abilities of provincial governments to raise revenues. Equalization payments are calculated according to a formula set out in federal legislation to respond to economic developments in the provinces.

When a province's economy is booming relative to the standard provinces, its equalization payments decline under the formula, reflecting the increase in wealth of that province. Conversely, when a qualifying province's fiscal capacity declines relative to the standard due to a slowdown in the economy, its equalization transfers increase. As well, equalization payments are subject to a floor provision. Until recently they were subject to a ceiling provision too.

The floor provision provides protection to provincial governments against unexpected large and sudden decreases in equalization payments. The floor limits the amount by which a province's entitlements can decline from one year to the next, according to a formula based on the equalization standard.

The ceiling provision was the other side of the coin. It provided protection to the federal government against unexpected increases in equalization payments. In order words, the ceiling permitted changing economic circumstances unaffordably driving equalization payments through the roof. The ceiling thus ensured that the program remained sustainable in the long run.

As part of the February 2003 first ministers accord and in light of improved federal fiscal circumstances, the Prime Minister announced that the government would permanently remove the equalization ceiling on an ongoing formula basis beginning with the fiscal year 2002-03. This provision was announced in the 2003 budget and legislation in Bill C-28, the Budget Implementation Act of 2003, received royal assent in June of this year.

Federal and provincial officials review the program on an ongoing basis to ensure that these differences are measured as accurately as possible. In addition, the legislation is renewed every five years to ensure that the integrity and fundamental objectives of the program are preserved, the last renewal being in 1999. As we know, new legislation must be in place by April 1, 2004.

The purpose of Bill C-54 is to ensure, and I underline this for all of my colleagues in the House, an uninterrupted stream of equalization payments following March 31, 2004, the date that the existing legislation is set to expire. As I said earlier, it is an insurance policy to ensure the continuation of payments for up to one year in the unlikely event, and I stress unlikely event, that renewal legislation does not obtain parliamentary approval before the expiration of the existing legislation.

As the Minister of Finance stated about the bill, the equalization program reflects the core values of our federation, and I believe it is important to give this matter the consideration that it deserves.

The minister went on to say that this measure was a precautionary one to ensure that the payments on which the provinces depended were not interrupted. As the minister has said, we are committed to tabling full renewal legislation in time for passage by March 31, 2004 deadline, but we must protect the public services that the provinces fund through the equalization program for the benefit of their citizens.

Without a doubt, passage of the bill will ensure uninterrupted equalization payments to the provinces in the unlikely event that new legislation is not in place by March 31, 2004. As well, in the event that the government continues payments under the current legislation, the proposed bill will ensure that the floor payments will continue to be made.

I suggest to hon. members that they view the measures in Bill C-54 as extra insurance, given that the impacts on receiving provinces could be very significant without the legislation. Of course, the renewal legislation, when passed, will supercede this extension. I want to emphasize that.

I will say a few words about the renewal legislation which would ensure, for my hon. friends across the way, and I know they will support this, that the program remains up to date and that the best possible calculations and data are used to determine equalization payments.

The government has identified three key principles in this renewal. First, the government is committed to a strong equalization program that allows provinces to provide reasonably comparable levels of public services at reasonably comparable levels of taxation. This is our constitutional commitment. I believe that the current program does that.

Second, the government is committed to improving the predictability and the stability of the equalization program. Equalization payments to the provinces should not destabilize provincial fiscal planning, something with which I am sure we all agree.

Third, the government is committed to maintaining the integrity of the equalization program. This principle is founded in the premise that payments have to be based on an objective formula, thereby ensuring equal treatment to all provinces. Maintaining the integrity of the program requires periodic revisions to reflect the most up to date figures and, obviously, current provincial taxation practices, while ensuring long term stability of the program.

As hon. members know, equalization is not static. Rather, it responds to the changing fortunes and circumstances of provinces over time. Indeed, since the program's inception, all provinces except Ontario have received payments to varying degrees, but always in accordance with objective calculations at the time.

In short, the government's commitment to equalization renewal is about making appropriate, fair and accurate changes. It is not about cutting or enriching the program.

Before closing, I want to take a moment to review the government's response to some of the provincial concerns. I am pleased to say that the federal government has listened, particularly with respect to their concerns about the ceiling, strengthening the equalization program, as well as further work to ensure the stability of payments.

As I indicated before, as part of the February 2003 first ministers accord, the Prime Minister announced that the government would permanently remove the equalization ceiling on a going forward basis from that time. This addressed a key provincial concern and, as I said, that was dealt with by the Prime Minister earlier this year.

We also know that in consultation with the provinces the federal government is working toward a new equalization legislation for the five year period beginning in April 2004. The program is being reviewed to ensure that it continues to accurately measure fiscal disparities and the capacity of provinces to raise revenue.

As well, with the provinces, the federal government is also working on how best to improve the stability of equalization payments. We agree with the provinces that it is important to improve the stability and the predictability of payments under this program. I am sure my colleagues across the way are delighted to hear that.

In closing, let me mention a few key points. We know that all parts of the country cannot generate the same revenues to finance public services. Federal transfers therefore help to ensure that important programs are adequately funded. Transfers also help to ensure that all Canadians receive reasonably comparable levels of public services no matter in which province they reside.

Canada's equalization program reflects the values of our federation, ensuring that all Canadians can have access to quality public services no matter which province they live in.

The bill underscores the priority the government places on equalization and will ensure that the receiving provinces continue to have resources to provide the services their people need and want, if necessary.

This is an insurance policy. This is not rocket science. It simply means that in regard to an unlikely event after April 1 payments would continue. I want to assure all members that the discussions the minister had earlier this month went very well, but the fact is that it is always prudent to have an insurance policy. I would hate to be in a position where payments did not flow on April 16, so I would urge all members of the House to give quick passage to the legislation.

Interparliamentary Delegations October 28th, 2003

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 34(1) I have the honour to present to the House, in both official languages, the report of the 24th General Assembly of the ASEAN Interparliamentary Organization meetings held in Jakarta, Indonesia in September 2003.