Charlie Angus

[Business of Supply, April 26th, 2018]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my hon. colleague for sharing those profound words in the House today. I want to speak to him from his deep experience of having lived this.

When we look at my region in northern Ontario, which has the highest suicide rates among children today, they are places the abusers went. Whether it was Ralph Rowe, from the Anglican Church in northwestern Ontario, or in the community I represent, where the damage was done by St. Anne's and Bishop Horden School, the effects can be seen to this day. Even though we have a young generation coming up that is strong and proud, whenever we see a suicide epidemic, the elders say to me that the direct road to the deaths of these children leads back to the residential schools. I have seen it as a fact. I say to my colleagues that they have to be on the ground to see how direct that road is.

I would like to ask my hon. colleague, from his experience about that direct road to the suffering and issues that we are still dealing with, why this apology and this recognition by one of the perpetrators of this abuse is so important at this time in our history.

[Business of Supply, April 26th, 2018]

Mr. Speaker, I have a lot of respect for my colleague.

In my region, the survivors of the sad, infamous St. Anne's residential school were shocked to learn that the Pope had refused to apologize. It is difficult to understand, since Pope Francis has a reputation for being a leader on reconciliation around the world. We were also very surprised to hear the Catholic bishops say that they were unable to speak on behalf of the Catholic Church on the need for a formal apology. Today, the Parliament of Canada is giving the Pope and the Catholic Church a chance to do the right thing.

Does my colleague think it is possible for the Pope to respond to this invitation to work with us towards reconciliation?

[Business of Supply, April 26th, 2018]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my hon. colleague for his excellent speech, and also for telling us of the survivors who not only survived the trauma, but have become role models for our country.

The reason apologies matter is that we learn. That was what I was taught by the nuns, some of whom were my aunts. We learn. We have learned from each other today, because there are still parts of the story that have not been told, but when we tell the story, we understand where we have been and where we are going.

My hon. colleague read out the powerful apologies that have come from each of the various Christian denominations, and he expressed his disappointment that we do not yet have one from our present Pope. However, Pope Francis has a clear vision, which he has expressed time and again about justice, sometimes he even has not being worried about the Catholic Church's rules because justice overrides rules. Is my colleague confident that whatever comes out of today, if we ask His Holiness, that we have a Pope that is actually open and understands? I know the member wants him to come to the city of Saskatoon. I would love him to come to the city of Timmins, but I did not think I would get that in this motion, so I left it out. However, if the Pope came to Saskatoon or any other city, I would totally support it.

Does the member feel the Pope is a man who would work with us and walk with us and move forward with us as a nation?

[Business of Supply, April 26th, 2018]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my hon. colleague for her powerful words and representing Alberta.

I want to ask her about how the treaties affect this. In our region, we have Treaty No. 9. One of the reasons the Cree and the Oji-Cree signed Treaty No. 9 was they knew their way of life was under threat. They knew the resource industries were coming in and they thought the treaty would give them certainty.

The treaty commissioners promised them education, and they thought that was a good thing. They did not know that the education was going to be in places like St. Anne's residential school.

Treaty No. 9 transferred hydro, timber, gold, and copper wealth, almost the greatest in the world. It transformed Toronto into an industrial powerhouse. The people were put on what became internal displacement camps.

I would like to ask my hon. colleague, who has worked so closely with the indigenous communities in Alberta, about the need to go back to the original issues of what those treaties meant in terms of the sharing of the resources and the rights that are still not being recognized today. The first people were not destroyed in the residential schools; the first people are here and the first people will continue to be here. Maybe long after we are gone, we know the first people will be here. We have to maintain that treaty relationship with them at all levels.

[Business of Supply, April 26th, 2018]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my hon. colleague for thanking and recognizing me in his speech. I do not need to be thanked.

I am a little concerned that he would use a day like today to promote government budgets. To me, this is still not getting it. Governments, his government and previous governments, have all been part of this.

I would like to ask my hon. colleague a question, particularly about the fact that the government is spending money, in the B.C. Superior Court and in Ontario Superior Court, fighting survivors of residential schools over the basic legal principle of procedural fairness. What does procedural fairness mean? It means that government lawyers suppressed the evidence of the torture and rape of children, had cases thrown out, and then said that they were not entitled to have those hearings reopened. This is what is going on today with that member's government. It has gone on with previous government.

As a sign of good faith today, would the hon. member call upon his justice minister to call off the lawyers and explain to Canadians why indigenous people, who are survivors, do not have the same basic legal rights that everybody else in the country is afforded? The government cannot continue to fight survivors in court.

[Business of Supply, April 26th, 2018]

Madam Speaker, I want to thank my hon. colleague, for whom I have enormous respect. We worked so well together over the years.

I want to talk about this being bigger than parties. The minister alluded to it. This is a history of Canada, and everyone has had their part to play.

I want to go back to my remembrance of the apology in Parliament. Being of Scottish background, we have a policy of only crying over battles we lost 300 years ago, and the Leafs. However, I wept when I heard Prime Minister Stephen Harper give that apology. It was such a moving moment, because Parliament was changed that day. Prime Minister Harper thanked Jack Layton for working with the Conservatives to find a way to make this not just an official parliamentary thing but an act of respect for the elders and leaders who came right into Parliament, into the people's House, so he could give that apology directly.

Does my colleague feel we are carrying on that tradition today—that for all the wrong that was done, Parliament is trying now to find a way forward together?

[Business of Supply, April 26th, 2018]

Madam Speaker, I want to say this clearly and simply so we understand each other. Stella Chapman had her case taken all the way to the B.C. Superior Court to be told the rights to procedural fairness do not exist. Those are legal obstructions. Therefore, will the minister commit to a meeting with Edmund Metatawabin and the survivors of St. Anne's so that we can sit down and find a way through this?

We need to find a settlement. Edmund talks about this being about the children, about putting a plan in place. I am asking for a very clear and simple answer.

[Business of Supply, April 26th, 2018]

Madam Speaker, I have enormous respect for the minister and her work, and I was so pleased that she was talking about the construction of the Indian Residential Schools Settlement Agreement and the importance that this is more than legal liabilities or following the wording of an agreement.

We have unfinished business, as my hon. colleague knows, which is the need to address what happened with the St. Anne's residential school survivors. It was the decision of the justice department to suppress the evidence that upended the hearings which resulted in the hearings being thrown out. There was evidence of horrific crimes, yet our survivors continue to go to the Ontario Superior Court and to the B.C. Superior Court to face every possible legal roadblock one could imagine. Some of them did not even have bus fare to go to the hearings.

The issue today is I am asking the minister to meet with the survivors. I am asking that we put the goddamn lawyers to the side. We can reach out. The survivors are not here for anything more than just healing. I am asking the minister to sit down and meet with survivors like Angela Shisheesh and Evelyn Korkmaz, and all the survivors who come time and time again.

I want you to do the right thing. Would you do it?

[Business of Supply, April 26th, 2018]

Madam Speaker, obviously my colleague has seen it. She knows it.

This is about the grandchildren. This is not about yesterday and old history. This is about today.

Edmund Metatawabin, who has been such a teacher to me on this, said that money is like ice in the pockets. The St. Anne survivors have been calling for justice for their grandchildren. They want them to carry on, and the children have been so good. Not just parents and grandparents, but families were deliberately targeted and devastated by the policies. One survivor told me about her parents, and she said that the use of the electric chair was to destroy their ability to love. Who would do that? Looking at her and looking at her children, I can see that they are full of hope and love.

That is why what is said is so important. This is about the children. It is about us going forward. We can never repair the damage that was deliberately done, but we can start on this road.

[Business of Supply, April 26th, 2018]

Madam Speaker, I was thinking of Edmund Metatawabin. I read his words this morning. Edmund has been a leader in trying to get justice for St. Anne's for so long. He said, “Sometimes you have to say sorry many times for what was done.” There is nothing wrong with that. Our Catholic faith teaches us that. We are taught that we have to say sorry. Angela Shisheesh says, “You have to say sorry before you go to bed.” Saying sorry is not something onerous.

What it means, though, is that we have to send a clear message that the church understands. All of us were shocked when we read the Pope's comments that he was not going to apologize. There was a misunderstanding that he somehow did not respect the need. That is a result of the bishops not asking him. That is why it is important for us to reach out to the Pope directly. It would be a powerful moment for Canada if the Parliament of this country asked the Pope to listen and respond. That would be powerful, because apologies matter.