Dan McTeague

[Remote Sensing Space Systems Act, September 30th, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, I realize the hon. member is quite willing to pursue the argument which suggests that as long as the NDP has proposed it, it must mean that there is a problem and that unless it is addressed, the sky will literally fall.

We have to be serious about this legislation. We have the support from the opposition. However, we also want to take into account the real and variable concerns that the committee had heard, and we did so in a very painstaking way. We took the time to listen to every witness provided by the hon. members.

Both hon. members from the Bloc and the NDP really believed the bill had something to do with directing missiles that might be launched or might be used to defend. The record is very clear. The NDP believed that this kind of satellite had something to do with tracking missiles as they went through the sky at 10,000 kilometres an hour. However, that is fantasy and it is the kind of Buck Rogers response to what is a very serious issue. They got the technology wrong. They got it wrong on the question of privacy because there are plenty of safeguards there. They got it wrong in terms of saying that somehow this was a deviation from previous policy when Parliament already had pronounced itself on this.

While I understand the hon. member's concern and lament, the safeguard about reviewing any of the deficiencies already is in the act. The debate between myself and the member is really one of perspective. However, I want the hon. member to understand that we are basing this on a prima facia case of fact, not fantasy, not what this might do. There are safeguards in the act to prevent the kind of occurrences to which the hon. member believes this might lead.

The hon. member has an obligation in the House to understand that the technology being used not only respects Canada's international obligations, it also respects the very bills that have been passed in the House in previous times.

Therefore, short of the concerns which she has raised, which are really not founded in any basis of fact, short of what we have done to exhaust the witness list of people who have come before us and recognizing the satellite has to come in 2006 because RADARSAT-1 already is five years long in the tooth, I do not want it falling from the sky, nor does the hon. member.

What does the hon. member believe we could do right now that would help her party understand that this technology is important for Canada and for Canada's development internationally? It is also important for Canada's contribution to the kinds of sciences that will continue to make a cutting edge and that will create the kinds of jobs the member and I want in our constituencies.

[Remote Sensing Space Systems Act, September 30th, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, I understand and have listened very attentively to the list of concerns that the House leader for the New Democratic Part has raised.

I am rather thankful that the NDP has now recognized that this particular type of technology has absolutely nothing to do with ballistic missile defence. It was a very hard nut to crack over there, but we have been able to do that.

I want to address some of the questions that she has raised because I know there will be opportunities for rejoinders at some point.

On the subject of privatization, I know the New Democratic Party has a problem with this, in general. This is a reality however that was passed by this House several years ago on the subject of satellites. There was a debate in this House and the House pronounced itself on this issue.

The subject of how this may be privatized in terms of RADARSAT-2 is a debate of a bygone era but nevertheless an important debate, not because the hon. member has expressed it but because it will be an ongoing concern. Provisions are made in this act, including the amendment which has been accepted by the government that we review this act periodically and that Parliament have the opportunity to do this. On that question, obviously, the hon. member may want to brush up.

On the question of privacy, the member raises a good point as far as understanding that we have very effective privacy laws. The hon. member will know that the government did meet with the Office of the Privacy Commissioner prior to the tabling of this and it had no recommendation for provisions dealing with privacy.

There are of course other safeguards which I want the hon. member to address, not only with respect to the Privacy Act itself. The protection of personal Information and electronic documentations act provides further assistance when we need to be concerned as it relates to who the licence is given to and when the licence is issued. The other one of course is the charter of rights itself. It would be important for us to recognize the importance of the Privacy Act in that the act is not defined in a way that would make the Privacy Act lesser or subordinate to the importance of that act in and of itself.

Does the hon. member believe that in this particular act we should have created a super privacy act? Or is she prepared to rely on the very effectiveness and wisdom of the Privacy Commissioner and the Privacy Act?

Finally, on the question of other nations and priorities, those are established priorities. We want to ensure that when it comes to these cameras, this particular device being used, that they also take into consideration the priorities as established by the government, that they are not inconsistent both with international law and the international obligations as well as the international priorities of this government and of this Parliament.

[Remote Sensing Space Systems Act, September 30th, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, the amendments the member just talked about would have had the same effect as the amendment that was adopted not only by the government but by all members of the committee, including the official opposition.

The most important question here does not refer only to satellites. The member opposite knows very well what happened in the past with the satellites as far as the sharing of data and the capacity to provide the required information is concerned. You cannot say that the provinces have not been consulted. This is quite simply a constitutional matter. Unless the member can propose a way to change the Constitution, I cannot do anything about it.

I can only assure him that the government has accepted what his party has proposed. I will read again, for the benefit of the member, the amendment that was accepted, in subparagraph 4(3)(c): “the interests of the provinces are protected”. I do not know what else the member is looking for.

I know that other elements have been associated with this bill, including the missile defence shield and the fact that the American government is monitoring business and private companies. This relates to Canadian interests. The member should answer to that.

[Remote Sensing Space Systems Act, September 30th, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, when the member spoke earlier, he minimized the impact of the amendment, which, beyond the Constitution, takes into account the need for provinces to be protected.

It seems that the member forgot or did not understand the wording of the changes made by the committee. I know that, for the member and his party, this all pertains to the broad issue of the impact on the provinces.

Nevertheless, beyond the Constitution, will he not agree that, with this amendment to the bill, the government has obviously taken steps to protect further the interests of the provinces. As far as jurisdictions are concerned, we have seen, in the past, that RADARSAT-1 has always provided the ability to share information with the provinces.

I know that the member has concerns. However, it seems to me that we even respect some overlapping, in accordance with the position of the provincial governments.

Perhaps we could also respond to another point, which was the subject of a debate initiated by the Bloc in November 2004. The Bloc was concerned that this bill would have an impact on the missile defence shield. Does that party still believe that the missile defence shield is related to this bill? Have our witnesses provided enough clarifications to the Bloc?

[Remote Sensing Space Systems Act, September 30th, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, indeed, the hon. member did not change his position on the provinces' jurisdiction. On the other hand, the other night, all parties in the House with the exception of the Bloc voted against Bill C-260 which related to provinces' jurisdiction over treaties.

In fact, our Constitution says clearly that space is a federal jurisdiction, not a provincial one. The hon. member knows that. I am not here to give him a lecture on the Constitution and I do not intend to do so either. However, will he recognize that in committee his party proposed an amendment to clause 4.3(c) and that we accepted it? He should say that the interests of the provinces are protected, which would simply reflect reality. Is the hon. member not aware of that amendment that takes into account the interests of the provinces in spite of the Constitution?

[Remote Sensing Space Systems Act, September 30th, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate the member who has worked very hard on this bill and shown a lot of interest in this regard.

However, he knows full well that the government has never had any problem with previous satellites and that there were no incidents related to the authority or the need for information further to a request by a province. No request has ever been rejected or denied.

We do not anticipate any problems. There will obviously be consequences because if this satellite is ever used, it will be to further municipal, provincial and national interests. Canada has a lot at stake, of course. In this context, satellite images have always been used in the best interests of our country prior to RADARSAT-2. Provinces have also had access to these images occasionally, on simple request.

I fully understand the member's concerns. We are dealing with a private company with other clients. However, at the government's request, and in the best interest of the government, there should be no problems. If they ever occur, we will deal with them.

In five years, Canada's Parliament, hopefully represented by the member's party, will be in a position to investigate. However, I believe that in five years the member will be able to tell me that there were no problems and that provincial governments requests were not denied.

[Remote Sensing Space Systems Act, September 30th, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, I realize the hon. member has not had the benefit of being on the committee and that much of the information she has received of course has come from her colleagues who have done a very good job on that committee, in particular the member for Halifax.

I want to assure the hon. member that this is really about satellite imagery not for defence purposes, although it would have the effect of protecting Canada's interests certainly when Canadian soldiers are involved around the world. The implications that somehow this would then be used for other purposes is clearly inconsistent with the Minister of Foreign Affairs and other ministers who are accountable to the House and who are responsible for this legislation. There is much accountability for how this will be forwarded in the days to come, but it is not, as the hon. member's party was suggesting earlier, somehow connected to the issue of ballistic missiles.

The hon. member may not know that her party was also given an opportunity to look at very confidential information. Of course all of us saw this. They may have had more questions after the fact but the reality is that the provisions within the act were given in very abundant and very clear terminology. Once the party had disposed of the concern it had about ballistic missile defence it then went on to another potential.

Of course we need to do this. This is why the government chose to make sure that the bill is subject to review by the House and obviously by the other place every five years. It is an accommodation which I think befits the strength of the bill.

I want to make it abundantly clear to the hon. member that the imaging that we are referring to and the shutter control is for very specific reasons where there is a national interest. I repeated this five times in my speech. Where there are interests that deal with the Canadian government's concerns, whether it be the deployment of troops, whether it be to deal with assets or interests that we may have as a country, as we saw with the case of the tsunami or as we would see in the case of New Orleans, such a satellite would be extremely helpful. Those kinds of circumstances would allow the government to basically use it for its own purposes.

Although there is an understanding of a substantial commitment by the Canadian taxpayer to the creation of this satellite, which we hope will be launched in 2006, the bill has been before the House for almost a year now. We also know that it will be used for purposes from which all of us as Canadians can benefit.

[Remote Sensing Space Systems Act, September 30th, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, on November 23, 2004, the Government of Canada introduced a bill to regulate the operation of remote sensing space systems. This is a bill concerning satellites capable of taking detailed pictures of the earth and objects on its surface.

On December 7, 2004, Bill C-25 was approved in principle by all parties in the House at second reading, subject to a clause by clause study by the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade.

Very recently, the committee tabled in the House a slightly amended bill for us to consider. Today, I will explain once again why this bill on remote sensing space systems is important for Canadians, for the Canadian industry and for our friends in other countries, and why this amended bill should be passed.

However, before I begin, I must express my gratitude to my colleagues who thoroughly examined this bill during its study in committee. Many expert witnesses provided important testimony during the study of the bill. Their testimony led to a number of proposed amendments. Four of these amendments are found in the bill submitted today to the House for approval.

The important point is a new section requiring the minister to cause an independent review of the provisions and the operation of the act to be conducted at least once every five years, and for these reviews to be laid before each House of Parliament. This section ensures that the legislation will be reviewed every five years, so that it can keep abreast of technological developments.

I want to add, however, that three trends in space activity are converging and making this bill imperative.

The first is the increasing availability of this technology to the private sector. Once upon a time, only government labs were able to create amazing technologies such as man-made satellites. Such a monopoly on space technology no longer exists. Today, private sector know-how allows us to create inventions at a rate that challenges the government to promote and regulate these new services in a timely manner. So, we must anticipate our needs and act accordingly.

The second trend is this: like the communication satellite industry before it, the remote sensing satellite industry is developing in Canada. Increasingly, the private sector is entering into partnerships with the public sector, as a prelude to purely private enterprises.

At one time, satellite communications were the sole domain of crown corporations. Telesat Canada is an excellent example of this. Today, Telesat operates as a dynamic private sector corporation, regulated by government and serving all Canadians from coast to coast to coast.

During the transition period, satellite communications rapidly evolved from the simple delivery of communications between two fixed points using the first regional communication satellite in Canada, Anik A , in 1972.

Now, satellite communications also allow mobile communications via cell phones and direct broadcast satellite service, or DBS, so residences can receive high definition television. More recently, high speed Internet and other broadband communications have been added to this mix of signals.

Remote sensing systems by satellite might be as successful if operators and investors in this sector could rely on intelligent regulation by the government.

Bill C-25 makes such intelligent regulation possible and does not intervene in the market except to ensure Canada's security, defence and foreign policy interests.

It also ensures secure data access for the states in question. Consequently, this bill protects both the public interest and the private interests of Canadians in a new use of space.

Third, the confluence of private financial capital and private access to high technology has resulted in remote sensing space system capabilities that could harm our national security, defence and conduct of international relations were they to go unregulated. Earlier civil remote sensing space systems were limited in their performance by underlying technological and financial constraints. Security interests of government owners also set performance restrictions on the capabilities of the remote sensing space systems.

Research and development activities meanwhile have proceeded apace for military systems, aided by the inventiveness of private contractors. This developed technological base can now produce imagery with resolution sufficient to benefit a 21st century defence force. When sensitive data is distributed on a wide basis, undesirable entities could be emboldened to exploit this new-found information availability as an asymmetric threat for our nation. This could be done without ever making the hitherto necessary space investments themselves.

Were the distribution of satellite remote sensing products and raw data to remain unregulated, timely non-discriminatory access to sensitive data could harm the national security, national defence and foreign policy interests of Canada. On the flip side of these concerns, there is the incredible benefit that timely access to imagery by the government could have for coordinating humanitarian and disaster relief operations.

When disaster strikes, as it did with hurricanes Katrina and Rita recently, or as with the Indian Ocean tsunami before them, it is important that the first responders and humanitarian relief workers can quickly survey the extent of the disaster, decide where best to set up the relief operations and of course aid in the rescue of persons in distress. And over the past couple of months I can say plenty about that. Thankfully, those were all done in a very efficient way.

While there is every expectation that satellite operators in Canada will service this market on their own, Bill C-25, which is before the House today at third reading, provides a power for the government to order imagery on a priority basis, enabling us to help coordinate relief efforts and operations for Canadians and others in need at home or abroad.

Parliament must therefore act to secure these vital interests of Canada while at the same time promoting wide access to satellite remote sensing products and raw data for beneficial uses which are consistent with the peaceful use of outer space. Parliament must also regulate these systems regardless of whether public or private or private-public finances assembled the necessary funds to undertake these promising ventures. Bill C-25 does exactly that by establishing a single licensing regime for the operation of remote sensing space systems in Canada and by Canadians.

This bill is also concerned with the distribution of the data products generated by the operation of remote sensing satellite systems. Much of the benefit of Canada's remote sensing satellites accrues to Canadians, but foreign entities also stand to gain by cooperating with Canada and with Canadians. Under Canada's Export and Import Permits Act, the export of satellite technology, goods and services is controlled by the government. Controlling intangible technology such as remote sensing products and raw data under that act, however, would have generated significant efficiency and effectiveness concerns within the government and, of course, the private sector alike.

Rather than require every Canadian national to secure an export permit for each and every purchase of imagery or data by foreign customers under an amended EIPA, the government wisely chose instead to obtain the same underlying security guarantees by developing this bill with its primary focus on the control of access to such products and data at the source of that information, that is to say, the licensee's operations.

Given that a licensee's satellite operations can be located both at home and offshore and also that such licensees work with international partners to increase global market penetration, these foreign partners must also be able to derive benefit from their Canadian investments. This bill is purposefully designed to enable foreign participation in Canadian systems and distribution of remote sensing products and raw data internationally, provided that Canada's security, defence and foreign policy interests are protected.

By piggybacking these security requirements onto a clean licensee's business model, we can obtain an example of smart regulation that is efficient and effective for Canadians and their foreign business partners.

I am also sponsoring this bill in order to fulfill Canada's bilateral and international obligations. By virtue of the 1967 Outer Space Treaty, Canada is responsible for the outer space activities of its nationals. Today satellites belonging to, and operated by, private interests are governed by the Telecommunications Act, the Radiocommunication Act and the Broadcasting Act, in order to protect the public interest in a variety of respects.

Passage of Bill C-25 will achieve a similar regulation of remote sensing systems, primarily from the points of view of security, defence and foreign policy. The bill also focuses on protection of the environment, of public health and safety and of private property.

This minimal intervention into the market responds to the concerns raised by this area of economic activity and respects Canada's international obligations.

The bill is also important from the point of view of Canada—U.S. relations. The government's decision to control its own remote sensing satellites, announced in June 1999, paved the way for an agreement between Canada and the United States which was signed in the June 2000, the Canada-United States Agreement Concerning the Operation of Commercial Remote Sensing Satellite Systems. This treaty was aimed at ensuring that private remote sensing satellite systems would be controlled in each country in such a manner as to protect shared national security and foreign policy interests, while promoting the commercial benefits to be derived from these systems.

Today we can meet the commitments contracted in that treaty. The statement of policy on controlling access that was announced in June of 1999 has become the bill you now have before you.

The launch of RADARSAT-2 from Canada is scheduled for 2006. I urge my colleagues to pass this bill so that we can show that Canada is walking the walk, not just talking the talk.

Before I conclude, I would like to mention that there was a lot of discussion, both in the House and in committee, about the private ownership of Canada's next remote sensing satellite, RADARSAT-2, its excellent performance and the need for foreign technology and launching facilities for these Canadian missions. RADARSAT-2 is indeed a good example of the need for this type of legislation. However, the bill must also apply to all future remote sensing space systems. Therefore, this bill covers all existing and future remote sensing space systems, which is exactly what Canadians want and expect from us.

Let me go back to the purpose of this bill to conclude my remarks.

The House should pass this bill that deals with remote sensing space systems because it is much better to create a smart regulatory framework for these high technology satellite systems than to risk compromising our national security, our defence and, most of all, our foreign policy.

We must pass this bill so that Canada can meet its bilateral and multilateral obligations in terms of regulating the space activities of its nationals.

We must pass this bill to ensure that Canadian businesses remain world leaders in the area of remote sensing and related services by setting a clear regulatory framework that can attract technological investments and help our businesses in terms of finding markets.

And we must pass this bill to ensure that every Canadian continues to draw maximum social and economic benefits from the use of space for peaceful purposes.

If we do not do it, other jurisdictions will take the lead and Canada will be the loser.

[Foreign Affairs, September 29th, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member knows full well that, if the Bloc Québécois wants a debate on this issue, it can always use its opposition days for that purpose.

I must say and point out to the hon. member that things have changed. We acknowledge the fact that India is expanding and becoming a major political and economic player on the international scene. This is a reality that has obviously eluded Bloc members.

[Foreign Affairs, September 29th, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, Canada recognizes that India recently undertook to take a number of measures to adhere, so to speak, to long-standing nuclear non-proliferation standards and applauds this commitment. This is where matters stand.