Deepak Obhrai

[World Trade Organization, November 5th, 2001]

Mr. Chairman, this is not bashing CIDA. This is trying to look for lasting solutions and not the stop-gap measures that CIDA usually applies.

In answer to the hon. member's question, we still have the same goal that they will be able to access us but I feel that the WTO needs to be reformed so that these people do not have to rely on CIDA money to create their infrastructure but can rely upon their own resources. Until such time that they have their own resources I do not see why we would agree with capacity building.

[World Trade Organization, November 5th, 2001]

Mr. Chairman, while I share the member's concern, I would slightly differ from that point of view.

I grew up in Africa before I came to Canada. I have seen CIDA pour assistance money in there with good intentions at times, but I have seen that it has taken them nowhere. Right now we need this capacity building we are talking about, which CIDA is giving and what the member is alluding to, so that these people can be part of the global economy and can actively take part in dispute resolution. My problem is this is just a stop-gap measure right now.

Where we really need to spend our time is with the WTO. The dispute settlement mechanism must be made easier and simpler so that we do not need so much money in infrastructure to go over there. If we make it simpler and easier and these countries can sustain it for a longer period of time, they will be able to take it.

The focus should change to put pressure on WTO so that dispute resolution is a simpler system. The aim is the same, that they can access the same thing, but our giving and trying to build that thing in the longer term will be less effective than reforming the WTO dispute settlement mechanism.

[World Trade Organization, November 5th, 2001]

Mr. Chairman, the member raised some very good points.

As I said in my speech, I was at the WTO talks in Seattle. We could see the resistance coming from the developing countries because at that time they had not fully integrated into the global market. They form the majority in the WTO and as such they are very important players. It is absolutely crucial that all these countries are able to join the WTO and have equal access.

I was in Brussels for the least developed countries conference. I listened to most of them and they wanted access. On giving aid, my colleague across the way is the parliamentary secretary to the minister responsible for CIDA. One of the things I have been advocating about CIDA, is that giving them money is not going to be the issue. Give them access to the market so they can move ahead. Having market access will enable them to spread wealth more evenly among their populace which will bring up the living standard of the population.

I agree it is critically important that we do not ignore that aspect. Ignoring it is what cost us at WTO in Seattle. We cannot afford to do that in Doha. So yes, that is one of the key elements.

It is important for us to protect Canadian interests as well. We are going to open up and we need a rules based system where Canadian companies and others have equal market access to other economies of the world. It is on both sides.

[World Trade Organization, November 5th, 2001]

Mr. Chairman, it was illuminating to listen to the Minister for International Trade articulate his position on the forthcoming meeting in Doha. The minister worked very hard on the international trade file. We could see that the minister and his team had their chests puffed up this afternoon during question period. It is time to release some of that air and discuss the issues.

I was with the minister at the talks in Seattle in 1999. I was aware of many of the factors that led to the collapse of those talks. My colleague from Vancouver Island North and I will be with the minister in Doha as well. I would like to address the issues and what the Canadian Alliance believes should happen in Doha.

The key issue before the World Trade Organization is whether the fourth WTO ministerial conference in Doha will launch a new broad round of multilateral trade negotiations. The official opposition believes that the launch of a new round of negotiations is in the best economic and development interests of Canada and the world.

The launch of a new round at Doha is of even greater importance given the potential negative impact of an already slow global economy. A new round is the best way to encourage broad based economic growth and poverty reduction in developing countries while dealing effectively with the concerns that many developing countries have with the current WTO rules and procedures.

Many developing countries are concerned about the implementation of the Uruguay round and others are calling for the launch of a narrow round. The official opposition is strongly pressing the government for a satisfactory launch of a new broad round at Doha.

If the Doha round of talks fails then there would be more bilateral trade agreements as nations would try to take advantage of globalization. The failure of a multilateral round would create a bilateral round which in the long term would not be in the interests of Canada or any developing country.

Canada and the world would benefit from the launch of a new broad round of world trade negotiations. Employment and living standards depend more than ever on how well countries perform in the global market. Canadian exports now account for close to 46% of the nation's gross domestic product making trade liberalization essential for our quality of life.

However Canada and the world need a strong, rules based multilateral trading system provided by the WTO that guarantees access to foreign markets and provides a predictable and transparent international trading environment if we are to gain the most from international trade.

The launch of a new broad round must include agriculture, services and industrial goods, as well as intellectual property, investment and a competition policy. Canadian agriculture can benefit greatly from access to global markets. An end to the discrimination against agricultural trade should be a key priority of the government in the new round.

The trade minister spoke about this and many of my colleagues on the other side of the House expressed concern about the agricultural round in Doha. The government must commit to liberalize agricultural market access, domestic support and export competition including, most important, the elimination of all forms of export subsidies.

The Canadian services sector can benefit greatly from access to global markets. The government must push for improved market access for our exports in areas such as telecommunications, finance and professional services. Negotiations must include industrial products where there are still substantial barriers in key markets for Canadian products.

The government must ensure that intellectual property negotiations carefully balance various interests. It must recognize that some issues such as access to medicines to respond to complex humanitarian crises such as the AIDS situation in Africa obligate us to address these moral questions at Doha.

The government must press for negotiations on the issues of investment and competition policy to ensure preservation of Canada's existing foreign investment screening processes and domestic policies.

Expanding trade liberalization and ensuring market access to developed Canadian and world markets is crucial for our development efforts. Open economies accompanied by domestic reforms are conducive to growth. Overall economic growth is a necessary condition for raising the living standards of the poor in developing countries.

The portion of the world population living in poverty is on a decline despite a strong population growth in the developing world. The poorest countries now account for less than 8% of the world's population compared with 45% in 1970. The developing countries that embraced globalization in the 1990s saw annual per capita growth rates of 5% annually compared with 2% for rich countries.

Various studies have pointed out that globalization, international trade and access to world trade markets by countries that have embraced liberal policies has raised the living standards of those countries.

There is no question that despite what our NDP colleagues and many of the NGOs have been saying, the fact remains that it has now been proven that globalization has raised the standard of living of many of the poor in this world. What is interesting is that over two-thirds of the countries in the WTO are developing nations. They voluntarily joined the WTO. Nobody pushed them into joining the WTO. They did so because they recognized that liberal trade policies were necessary to raise the living standards of their citizens. This is one of the important facts.

I was at the Shanghai APEC conference and I listened to members from various countries one after the other say that this was the route they wanted to follow. These countries are choosing this route, yet NGOs from developed countries with their partners in the NDP are nitpicking on small issues trying to create a broader context of the situation and saying that globalization is anti development.

Globalization is not anti development. A rules based trade system is required so that smaller economies, the same economies that the NGOs want to protect, have a rules based system in which they can put their case forward against larger economies so they do not use their muscle to take over markets. This afternoon we heard what happened with the softwood lumber issue. The U.S.A. is trying to use its muscle to push around a smaller country like ours. What is our recourse? We heard that we push the U.S. This is a rules based trading system and the U.S. and Canada both have obligations.

It is crucial that we have a rules based system. It is absolutely crucial that the WTO round in Doha be a success. If it is not a success, as I said in my speech, countries will not stand still because they are under pressure from their citizens to improve their living standards. Very soon we will have bilateral trade agreements floating all over the place and this will not help anybody.

In conclusion, it is absolutely imperative that this round in Doha be successful. We understand the labour and environmental standards and the concerns that many have raised on these issues, but we feel there are bodies that can address these issues. We support the government's position in having the ILO and the UNEP be included in the WTO talks so that there is a broader picture and they can effectively address their concerns.

[Terrorism, November 2nd, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, the Middle East crisis calls for a balanced approach. Terrorism in any form should be condemned. While timely, the trip to the Middle East by the Minister of Foreign Affairs did not produce many results.

Israel has a right to protect its citizens but the same rights also apply to Palestine. Prime Minister Tony Blair of Great Britain said:

--no matter what the cause is, no matter how passionately people believe in a cause, nothing can justify killing thousands of people in cold blood in New York or anywhere else in the world.

We cannot justify through the Palestinian cause what happened in America. We must address the problems and the injustices in the Palestinian region. We must encourage the revival of peace talks and bolster support for the international coalition against terrorism.

The official opposition calls for a truce and for negotiations on both sides to end the unnecessary killing of civilians everywhere. All countries including Israel and the Palestinian authority have an obligation to their citizens to negotiate peace. Peace must prevail at this crucial time when the world is engaged in a war against terrorism.

[Air Canada Public Participation Act, October 31st, 2001]

Madam Speaker, I am bringing to the attention of government that its regulations have brought this mess to the airline industry. Let us talk about this. Members should talk to the public and the airline employees. We have unhappy customers and unhappy employees.

The government has to unshackle Air Canada and that is why we are supporting the bill. It is time that we have a real look at Air Canada and the airline operation. We cannot let it go and hope like the Minister of Transport does. With all his policies he hopes this will happen or that will happen. We do not need hopes. We need a concrete plan.

The minister hopes competition will come. Create the situation so competition will come. There are thousands of Canadian business people who would invest in small regional airlines that could feed into main feeder routes. We have an excellent infrastructure for the transportation industry. We just want to make effective use of it.

[Air Canada Public Participation Act, October 31st, 2001]

Madam Speaker, it is a privilege for me to speak on our transportation industry. This is the second time I will have spoken on this subject.

When my colleague who just spoke was the Alliance critic, I spoke to her about this. She is now the DRC critic and many of the points she mentioned today were what I was going to mention. Nevertheless, I will re-emphasize many of those points.

Before I go to that, I would like to set the record straight. The Bloc and NDP members who spoke alluded to the fact that the Canadian Alliance was opposed to bilingualism. I would like to make the record very clear for them, especially the Bloc member who brought the separatism issue into this.

My colleague, the transport critic, did not say that we opposed bilingualism. He said that only Air Canada was forced to speak in two languages while the other carriers were exempt from that. He said that the rules should be equal for everybody, which would mean that the other carriers should also speak in both languages. He was trying to say that this restriction tied the hands of Air Canada. Let us not twist the facts.

I listened to what the Minister of Transport had to say. I was extremely stunned when he said that parliament put the 15% per cent restriction of ownership on Air Canada . As my colleague from the DRC said, both she and I stood 18 months ago and said free up the ownership rule and let Air Canada fly on its own. At that time, he stood up and said that it was not possible and gave all the usual excuses. Eighteen months later he is proposing a bill removing that ownership.

This indicates that the mess the Canadian airline industry is in is partly the responsibility of inaction and not well thought out plans by the government. We also know that this mess was also created by Air Canada itself. Everybody knows Air Canada's management has been disastrous at times.

Some of the management decisions have made me shake head and wonder if they have been made by supposedly qualified managers. Many times I have asked questions about the operations of Air Canada.

Let me go back to mismanagement by the government. Regulations have tied Air Canada's hands. However the government is untying them slowly. It wants Air Canada to act as a private company. Then it does not want that. Then it wants to put in restrictions. Nobody has the foggiest idea where this is going. Who is aware of what is going on? I am sure even the management of Air Canada is at times wondering what it has to do.

Let us talk about restrictions the government wants to remove. We have the foreign ownership restriction but, as my friend said, that is immaterial.

We want Air Canada to be a viable institution. By removing the 15% restriction, it will be able to trade. It will be a private company.

Government has no ownership. If the government has no ownership, why is it poking its nose in Air Canada? It claims and says that the smaller communities do not have services and that we have to provide them with these services. My colleague from DRC articulated one point very well. WestJest provides services.

One of the reasons WestJet came into existence was simply because Air Canada was charging too much. It was ridiculous. Hence WestJet came out with a sound business plan and look where it is stands today. Even after the disaster of the September 11 attack, WestJet said it did not need much money.

Members of parliament, who have travelled over the last three and a half years or four years, know that Air Canada and Canadian Airlines were trying to kill each other. It was not good for the airline industry. We had planes departing at the same time. What were they trying to do? I do not understand. They were routed to the same place, which was absolute nonsense. These planes were half full.

We now have Air Canada doing the same thing with Tango airline. Their experts say Tango is a great name. I guess we will have to get used to it.

My colleagues just advised me that Air Canada picks them up and pushes them over to Tango. Air Canada is using its bigger monopoly for this discount airline in competition with the other regional airlines.

What is the intent of Air Canada? It has more than 70% of the market. It has all the international routes. If it concentrated on its core business to provide good service, it could do well. However, it is more interested in opening up Tango and trying to run other people out of the business, which has fallen off from since they were dealing with Air Canada. There is absolutely no change in the mentality of the management of Air Canada.

As a matter of fact, when I travel and talk to Air Canada and Canadian Airline employees at the Ottawa airport, the Calgary airport and in some other place, I do not see happy employees. They are, of course, worried about jobs, but in general their morale is down. As a former businessman, I do not know how people can run a company with unhappy employees. It will eventually translate into frustration and bad service. I have had bad service on many occasions. Who has not had this bad service?

We need to make Air Canada what it is supposed to be: a business that is an expert in transportation. That can only be done if we remove the regulations.

The NDP members said they liked competition but they wanted regulation. The Bloc wants to protect the employees. We all want to protect the employees. However, in the long run, if Air Canada's hands were untied and it had the ability to make sound management decisions with happier employees and a happier public, that would benefit Canadians.

Canadians would like to see that maple leaf flying all over the world. It is a great sight to see but not at the expense of Canadians.

After the September 11 attack, a statement made by the CEO of Air Canada stunned everybody. He said he wanted $3 billion to $4 billion of Canadian taxpayer money. This airline has a monopoly. It is an airline that, through its predatory practices, killed Canadian Airlines. It has all the international market, yet it wants money and blames it on September 11.

Everybody knows that previous to that it was having severe financial difficulties. Obviously, if we really looked at it, the restrictions put on Air Canada by the government has had an impact on it. It has not been able to work as an efficient business entity.

People keep saying they want Air Canada. Then they say they will let Air Canada go like they did to CN. Look what happened to CN. There are two railway lines, the CN and CP. That is all right. When CN was let go, CN's performance improved and now we have two viable railways.

What happened was people did not want to let Air Canada go. There was this fear, especially with the Bloc, the NDP and the Liberal government that services would not be delivered to small communities and to others. Canadians are very entrepreneurial. Canadians will seize the opportunity.

I can say that, if the opportunity is there, lots of regional airlines and other airlines will come in. Right now with all the restrictions, Air Canada is in a dominant position and will not let anybody come in. It is running these operations at a loss, but it still wants to maintain its market share.

The pricing structure of Air Canada right now makes me shake my heard. Air Canada charges $3,000 from Calgary to Ottawa. That is pretty expensive. I flew from Vancouver to Shanghai for $4,000. If a person flies last minute economy it is over $2,000. Is it going to let discount air carriers come and let them take the traffic?

It is obviously a stupid business decision as far as I am concerned. No wonder the other airlines woke up. Now Air Canada has Tango, the no frills service. The bottom line is simple, most people travelling on Air Canada are travelling at half the price.

There is a need to allow Air Canada management to be let go. There is a need for an infusion of capital, and it should get it. There is a need for sound management practices by Air Canada

[Cida, October 31st, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians trust their government to use CIDA funds for the poor countries of the world, not for pre-election communication work in the riding of the Minister for International Cooperation.

It is obvious that the minister tiptoed around treasury board guidelines to avoid public scrutiny. However the issue is an ethical one about who was involved, the timing, if work was actually done and what kind. It is morally wrong for political campaigners to replace public service PR staff in a minister's riding, particularly just before an election. These actions would surely benefit the minister's election campaign, not the poor countries.

This is an hypocritical abuse of public funds by a minister whose role is to promote good governance in poor countries, which is why I am calling for an immediate investigation by the ethics counsellor and for her immediate resignation.

[Supply, October 29th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I was with my colleague in Brussels for the least developed poor countries conference and both of us heard quite clearly the call of the developing countries for more access to being part of the world trade system. I have alluded to that in my speech. That is one of the most important routes to the long term sustainability of development in those countries. Yes, in the long term I think that is what has been proven to take so many people out of poverty, as the report in Australia has indicated. I agree very much that this would be the key route for this issue.

While the member says that it would be more concentrated, I think he means that it would not trickle down to the general populace. In my opinion the more we open the free trade market the more equal a distribution of money will take place because at the end of the day the money will not fall into the hands of the government or into the areas where it is misused but will hopefully trickle down to where it can be distributed among more regions of the populace, as has been proven in China and in India.

[Supply, October 29th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, yes, I am very well aware of that. What I find funny about this is that this was in response to a humanitarian crisis that was taking place. While the member very proudly talks about the Pakistan issue, it just happened and was a reflection of the Afghanistan issue. It was not a well thought out or well laid out plan. Of course maybe she is also aware that under the IMF there are certain conditions that countries have to meet for debt forgiveness. The conditions are laid out. The responsibility under those conditions has been thrown onto the governments that need to pay these debts. They have to come up and show responsibility. We cannot write blank cheques.

Therefore, yes, I am supportive of the programs that the IMF has come out with and that have laid down quite clearly the conditions. I must tell my colleague from the other side that there are very few countries that at this point have actually met those conditions, because they have to go through a structural change. The idea behind the structural change is that they take the responsibility for their nation of governing.

We know that in the past government to government aid has been very ineffective, especially in those countries, so we need to be very careful when we are throwing this money around. In reference to Pakistan, which I did not say, that is not a long thought out plan. That has just happened because of the Afghanistan war. We have been calling for a comprehensive package and that is one step forward in going in that direction.