Deepak Obhrai

[Supply, April 24th, 2001]

Madam Speaker, it is a pleasure for me to rise to speak to this bill.

I would like to tell the member from the opposite side who just got up that if he had some intelligence he could read the blues and everything and he would probably find out what our position was, which we articulated very well in the last session.

On rising here I do not know who to take to task, the government or the NDP. However, I will make my points and try to debate this issue more intelligently than has been done here with the rhetoric that has been going on.

Globalization is here to stay. It does not have to be a case of winners and losers. I believe it can make winners of all of us, but for that to happen, our government, all the groups and all the international agencies must recognize their responsibility to educate and inform the public.

While the motion talks about free trade of the Americas, the protests and the issues raised in Quebec City touched on the broader issue of globalization. A lot of people were protesting and, I must say, protesting peacefully. I will address my remarks to the issues of those who were protesting peacefully. They brought forth the concerns of globalization, which are part and parcel of the creation of a free trade zone. They tried to lump everything under a trade agreement. They felt all the concerns they had, created by globalization, should be addressed under a trade issue. That is where we differ and that is where we feel the approach they have taken is not the right approach.

Globalization is here to stay. Groups and governments must recognize their responsibility to educate and inform the public. This world of information left by our governments, international organizations and business leaders have given footholds to non-governmental organizations and other organizations.

These groups have banded together and have called themselves the civil society. They have gained tremendous influence in the last decade. The problem is that these are unelected, unaccountable and self-interest groups that have successfully tapped into the fields brought about by the uncertainty of global trade or globalization.

An example of the power of the so-called civil society is the government's $300,000 donation to the people's summit, the gathering of civil society to protest negotiations in Quebec City. Similarly, the publicity given to protesters in Seattle, which I witnessed firsthand, demonstrates the powers of this organization. I feel many of these organizations have legitimate concerns. I would even agree that the NDP may at times have some legitimate concerns. However, in general, where they are trying to address this issue under trade agreements is not the right approach.

I attended the WTO summit in Seattle in December and recently, with the Canadian parliamentary delegation, I spent many hours with international organizations in Geneva. I met with officials from the ILO, the WTO, the United Nations Commission on Human Rights and the United Nations Commission for Refugees.

At this time I must say that I was a little disappointed with our representative in Geneva, Ambassador Sergio Marchi, who, in obtaining the position of ambassador, is supposed to be non-partisan. I found him to be the most partisan ambassador I have ever encountered in my meetings with officials. I feel it is disgraceful to be partisan when one is in that position.

Nevertheless, in my meetings with the United Nations' officials, and especially the international labour organizations, I came back with a very disturbing observation. These are international organizations that have been mandated to address the issues of labour, environment and human rights and, in talking with them, my conclusion was that these organizations were 10 years behind what is going on in the streets of Seattle, Quebec City and anywhere. They are not even addressing the issues of labour standards, the issues of environment or any other issues.

Because the government has failed to hold these international agencies accountable, it has led to the rise of groups, which want to address these issues, taking these issues to trade tribunals and clouding the importance of the issue of free trade. Free trade has been in the world for a long time. We have been trading with everyone and we will continue trading. Nothing will stop us.

We keep hearing our colleagues in the NDP say that they do not mind trade but then they suddenly do mind all the other issues. I say that they do not go hand in hand. The labour issue needs to be addressed but they should campaign other bodies that will address those issues. Instead they try to put the burden onto one body, which has become a successful body. If they do have questions they should hold the United Nations and those types of organizations accountable. They should ask them to address the issues that need to be addressed and that they have been talking about.

I want to talk for a second about the FTAA and the failure of the government to communicate what the FTAA is all about. The debate we have had in the House has been nothing but huffs and puffs, where we stand up, we talk about it and the parliamentary secretary listens to it but no one cares. The chairman of the foreign affairs committee, under whom I work, has held FTAA hearings and even WTO hearings. We have listened to the groups. The Minister for International Trade said that he has listened. However we know on this side who has been talking about these issues. The Liberals have not listened. They only allow others to huff and puff to let off steam. The protests we have had are a message that something is seriously wrong.

Before the government signs the FTAA agreement will it bring the agreement into the House so parliamentarians can discuss it and ratify it, and not just sign it and say that the deal is done? It should bring the agreement into parliament and let the elected officials, those who are the actual voices of Canadians, talk about it, debate the issues that are important and then say that we agree or do not agree with the agreement. That is the commitment we want from the government.

If the government believes in transparency, it will bring the agreement to parliament and allow parliamentarians to discuss it before it is ratified.

[Income Tax Amendments Act, 2000, April 5th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, finally the government side has asked me a question. I have been up on three bills and this is the first time the government has asked a question. Obviously something is bringing them to this point.

The member across the way has brought up the same point I just mentioned when I said the government is claiming $100.5 billion in tax cuts while in reality the cuts are only $47.1 billion. Whether it is a CPP increase or whether it is the other indirect increases the government has put in, the examples the member cites are examples of ideal conditions, which impact a very small number of families.

I am sure that when the member goes back to his riding constituents will phone us and find out that contrary to what government members have been saying, that is not what the tax on their take home pay is. As a matter of fact they are taking advantage of provincial governments such as the governments of Alberta and Ontario that are reducing taxes. The take home pay increase is coming from the provincial governments and they want to take credit for it.

At the end of the day we should ask all Canadians what their take home pay is and they will say it is contrary to what government members are saying. That is not the reality out there. It is similar to the home heating fuel program they brought in which resulted in criminals getting the cheques. At the same time they were saying they were helping the poor.

[Income Tax Amendments Act, 2000, April 5th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I am sure people will be surprised to see me get up for the third time within two hours. This is a unique happening in the House. I would like to remind people that this is happening because the governing party is refusing to debate these issues and is refusing to defend its bills. As such, the bills are going through more rapidly because only the opposition is pointing out what is wrong with the legislation. The government is refusing to defend itself.

It is a pleasure to rise on behalf of the constituents of Calgary East to speak today to Bill C-22, an act to amend the Income Tax Act, the Canada Pension Plan, the Customs Act, the Excise Tax Act and the Modernization of Benefits and Obligations Act. This bill, like many dealing with the tax code, is an omnibus bill, meaning that it deals with a number of issues at once.

As mentioned in the title of this bill, acts included are the Income Tax Act, the Canada Pension Plan and the Excise Tax Act. While each of these acts deserves attention and has important consequences for Canadians, I would like to address my thoughts to how this act impacts on Canada's competitiveness.

I have been appointed chair of the advisory committee on globalization and competitiveness by the Leader of the Opposition. The mandate of this advisory committee is to advise and to get input from business leaders, academics, non-governmental organizations and Canadians from all across the country on the possibilities and pitfalls of globalization for Canada.

There are countless ideas about how to make Canada more competitive in a more interconnected world. These ideas need a voice in parliament and the public sector. It is hoped that the Canadian Alliance will be that voice.

For years the Liberal government has ignored the reality that Canada is losing valuable ground to our neighbours to the south and to our major international competitors. We know that the new U.S. administration won a mandate based on the promise of substantial tax relief and a targeted plan of debt reduction.

We know that income taxes are not the sole indicator of the tax divide between Canada and the U.S. Canadians face other taxes that push the total tax burden higher. The total tax burden includes sales taxes, payroll taxes and other levies by all levels of government, which create a Canadian tax burden that is up to one-third higher than that of the U.S. It is clear that if Canada does not follow U.S. tax reductions, the country will fall further behind.

Mexico, our NAFTA partner, also has vigorous plans to become a major centre for North American investment. Canada will face increasingly tough competition from Mexico in our plans to attract foreign investment. Mexico enjoys a unique position as a member of NAFTA. It is the only North American country that has a free trade agreement with the European Union as well as with Mercosur, the free trade bloc with Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile.

The challenges presented by Mexico and the U.S. are just two examples of why Canada cannot afford to continue making negative public policy decisions that impact our competitiveness.

When the current foreign affairs minister was the Minister of Industry, while he was curtailed because he was representing the government, he did at times manage to raise warning signs about our country's tax bracket and competitiveness.

A survey of the world's most competitive economies by the Swiss-based International Institute for Management Development has placed Canada at number 11, a drop of one place from last year. The institute praised Canada for its infrastructure, legal framework and human resources, but gave poor marks for its record in science and technology and for uncompetitive taxes. Just before speaking on this bill, I spoke on another bill in reference to welcoming the government's initiative in helping science and technology.

For years many of Canada's most successful companies and business people have argued that high taxation impacts Canada's ability to be competitive in a more interconnected world. High taxation discourages investment and innovation and it is a major cause of the brain drain. These issues have been pointed out time after time to the government.

John Cleghorn, former chairman and CEO of the Royal Bank, said that higher taxation has diverted savings into the government sector that would earn higher productivity returns for companies and societies at large in free markets. He went on to say that higher taxation also hits living standards more immediately by cutting off what is left in our pockets at the end of the day to spend on our families and ourselves.

Canadian business leaders and academics will agree that for Canada the challenge is to build a more innovative economy that is well positioned for competitive success in the new global market. To succeed, Canadian firms must take full advantage of the opportunities created by greater economic integration and increased cross border flows of goods, services, technology, ideas and knowledge.

The responsibility for building a more innovative and competitive economy falls primarily on Canadian managers and entrepreneurs. However, government has a role to play as well. Government can reduce taxes. It can ensure that Canadian students are some of the most highly educated in the world. It can provide the conditions necessary to make Canada the final destination of foreign direct investment from all regions of the world. The government can and must do all those things, but sadly the government does not.

The government claims in the bill that it has cut taxes by $100.5 billion over five years. This is what it is saying based on its list.

However, let us look at reality. The reality is that we must subtract $3.2 billion over five years for social spending. The child benefit is a spending program delivered through the tax system and it is an increase. It is not a tax decrease, it is a spending increase. However, the government says it is a tax decrease. It does not recognize that it is a tax increase. As well, indexation is accounted for separately.

Next we must subtract $29.5 billion over the five years for increased CPP premium hikes. We all know that CPP premiums have been increased, yet the government refuses to say that is part of its tax cuts and puts it separately. In reality, when we look at the competitiveness for everything, it is a burden. The burden comes out of the government's mismanagement of the CPP. I was part of the debate on CPP premiums. What is interesting is that when CPP was first introduced the government was saying the same thing that it is now saying after 20 years of CPP premium increases. Nothing has changed over that time.

As well, indexing personal income taxes is meant to hold the tax burden constant over time, so it should not be counted as a tax reduction.

Therefore, when we take out all these things, there is only $47.1 billion in net tax reduction provided over five years. Let me repeat that: it is only $47.1 billion over five years, not the $100.5 billion that the government is claiming. We can see innovative accounting here, with the government giving the illusion to Canadians that they are facing major tax relief over the next five years when in reality that is not happening.

I received a call from one constituent who was a little puzzled because he had heard about the government reducing taxes and he could not understand why his net take home pay had suddenly decreased. I asked him to take a closer look to see if his CPP premiums had increased. Sure enough, CPP had increased. That is why he is taking home a smaller cheque.

The government's current policy does not create the competitive environment that we need to position ourselves for taking advantage of the global economy. The Canadian Alliance has proposed further reductions in taxes, which would create an environment that businesses are looking for on behalf of Canadians in order to poise themselves to take advantage of the 21st century.

[Budget Implementation Act, 1997, April 5th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise on behalf of the constituents of Calgary East to speak to Bill C-17. My colleague from the NDP quite rightly pointed out that a lot of things are wrong with the bill. We agree with many of the issues she raised today.

She said the bill was anti-democratic. I will make this observation. My colleague from Elk Island spoke prior to her. He addressed his concerns about the bill. Due to a mix up he thought he had 20 minutes to speak but he did not. As he did not have time to make all his points he asked for unanimous consent to be allowed to do so. Members from the government side refused.

What is the government afraid of? This is the house of democracy. The Liberals should let people speak. They are the governing party. They should show by example what is democracy. For the Liberals to deny my colleague his right to speak indicates they are afraid of something. They are afraid we will be able to show what is glaringly wrong. They are afraid of this coming out.

As my colleague from the NDP stated very clearly, the bill is anti-democratic because it has two parts, the Budget Implementation Act and the Financial Administration Act. She rightly pointed that it creates a problem for the opposition as to what it should support.

In reference to the Canada foundation for innovation, let me quote the Canadian Alliance policy of the last election. It stated:

We will appoint a Senior Advisor on Technology with private sector technology experience to report directly to the Prime Minister...We will bring the best ideas in business, government, and universities together to facilitate the transition to the new economy and position Canada as a global leader...We will increase support to Canada's research granting councils, and appoint a Chief Scientist of Canada to co-ordinate science activities in all government departments and ensure that science, not politics, prevails...We will increase Research and Development funding by $500 million.

As far as the Canadian Alliance and its members are concerned, we recognize the importance of technology and of supporting research with public dollars. Our nation has a proud history of producing excellent scientists. Our record shows we are quite capable of being the best in the world.

Everyone in Canada is extremely proud of Drs. Banting and Best who invented insulin for the treatment of diabetes and changed thousands of lives around the world. That is highly commendable and Canada is quite rightly proud of it.

We do not lack brains. We do not lack men of distinction in our nation. We agree with the government that it should support technology and research.

The world is becoming smaller. Borders are disappearing. We are moving into an era of globalization and fewer borders. As borders diminish competition increases. As competition increases, nations that are poised to take advantage of innovation and new ideas are the nations that will progress.

Canada should position itself to take advantage of globalization in the coming years. If we do not, someone else will and at the end of the day we will be the losers. It would be a tragedy not to support it when we have such an intelligent workforce and such illustrious persons in our universities and research councils.

We have no problem supporting the first part of the bill, although we have some questions as to the amount. We say $500 million. The government says $750 million. There is a slight difference there but the objectives are the same. We feel that our overall policy of lower taxation, freer markets and less government interference would eventually see more dollars put into research facilities across the country.

As my colleague from the NDP stated, the second part of the bill, the Financial Administration Act, is where we have difficulty and why we will not support the bill. If the bill had been broken into two sections we would have supported the Budget Implementation Act with reference to the Canada foundation for innovation. However we have a problem with the Financial Administration Act.

Our difficulty arises with a lot of issues. First, the bill was brought forth to correct a legislative error. It is amazing that with all the bureaucrats, research staff and huge departments at the government's disposal it still makes legislative errors. It spends billions of dollars and cannot even make a bill that is right. It then must bring in another bill to correct the mistakes. When opposition members have the opportunity to show what is wrong, the government cuts debate short and does not allow us to speak.

Another reason we are opposing the bill is that the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board would be exempt from the Financial Administration Act. However, we do like the fact that there will be less ministerial intervention. We have been asking for less government and ministerial intervention. When there is government intervention, it spoils the good intention of a bill because it is packed with patronage. Good programs usually develop implementation problems due to unnecessary ministerial or government intervention. We are happy when we see less ministerial intervention.

We also have difficulty with the fact that the board would not be subject to the auditor general's review. The auditor general should have every right to do an audit when public funds are being used. Public funds have been sent to the government, in trust, to be used wisely and the only person who can advise the Canadian public that the money has been used wisely is the auditor general.

We look forward to the auditor general's report because he has shown time after time where the government has failed to use taxpayer money wisely. We are concerned that the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board would be exempt from the Financial Administration Act. The bill would also take away the auditor general's right to audit the board and that is unacceptable.

Similar to what was said by my colleague from the NDP, we have difficulty supporting the bill because it has two parts.

[Budget Implementation Act, 1997, April 5th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I was listening with quite an interest to what my colleague from Elk Island was saying. Since members on the governing side would not give him any time to continue with his speech, and I do not know what they are afraid of, I would like to hear what he has to say in the remaining five minutes.

[Canada Elections Act, April 5th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure for me to speak on behalf of the constituents of Calgary East. I had no intention of speaking to the bill, but as the debate carried on and the points of view were put forward I thought it would be appropriate to join the debate.

The points that were raised have strong ramifications. There is a plea from members on this side of the House for the government to look at the way parliament is functioning, at the way elected officials are functioning and at the way power is concentrated in the PMO.

I have two points to make. Before I speak about the Senate and the way our democracy works, I would like to make a small point about elections. When I was signing my final returns the returning officer brought to my attention complaints that she and other returning officers had received when the chief electoral officer had made comments regarding his consultation process during the last general election.

The chief electoral officer said that he had met with DROs and key players to prepare his report. Unfortunately he made comments in his statement concerning DROs whom he had not consulted. He did not explain why he had not consulted them. It raised unhappiness with the DROs who were not consulted. By addressing the issue here I would hope that the chief electoral officer would address it with the DROs who were not consulted and who were not very happy with those comments.

I would like to talk about democracy in our country. In 1999 I had the privilege of being asked by the former Governor General of Canada to join him on a state visit to five countries in Africa. I was informed that the purpose of the state visit was to promote democracy in these countries where democracy was slowing taking root.

When I looked at who was going on the state visit I found out that we would be accompanied by two senators. The comments that I am about to make have no bearing on the two senators or their characters. I am sure they are very fine gentlemen. I know them very well and I have great respect for them.

It is the institution we are talking about and not the individuals. I was puzzled and disturbed to be going on a state visit to other countries to talk about democracy accompanied by the symbols of what is not a democracy in this country. These are people who sit in a chamber. They are not elected by the people of Canada but are appointed by one individual at his whim. How can we call that a democracy? That institution represents a power that is in one office.

Here we were going to another part of the world to tell it about democracy and how democracy works in our country. I found that very contradictory, so I wrote back to the Governor General and told her that. I asked if she would perhaps allow me the opportunity, when meeting with parliamentarians in other countries, to tell them that there was a problem with democracy even in our country and that reforms were needed. After some pause I was given permission by the Governor General to bring up this point.

Henceforth, everywhere we met with parliamentarians, I made sure they understood that there was not a full-fledged functioning democracy in Canada, that Canada also had problems and that Canadians were demanding reforms to make it a truly functioning democracy.

When I brought up this subject, it was amazing that parliamentarians in other countries stopped, looked and listened. They could not believe we had an upper house in Canada that was not elected, that it was appointed and appointed by one person. They could not believe that was possible, and that we call that a parliament of Canada. The more I talked about it the more they shook their heads. I told them they should not do this. I told them that as they were laying the foundations of democracy not to import to their countries the mistakes, those cracks in democracy.

When I meet with foreign delegates who come to Canada, the first thing they ask is how can we have a chamber that is not elected. Democracy means the voice of the people, not the voice of the elite. The people can only be heard through elections, not through appointments.

What we have is a fundamental flaw in our democracy. That is why the voices of Canadians across this nation are demanding that this parliament be reformed so that it can truly represent the voice of the Canadian people.

Our provinces have asked that their voices be heard. That is why the province of Alberta went through an election and elected two senators. This is the choice of the people of Canada.

At this stage I would like to commend the former senator, Mr. Ghitter, who resigned from the Senate because he felt it did not reflect the will of the Canadian people. I hope that is the reason he quit.

Senator St. Germain is still in the Senate but has publicly stated that he would like to be an elected senator. I am sure those senators would. I have met nice senators. There are good senators and hard working senators. I am sure if all senators ran for election and got the legitimacy of the people, they would be far happier to sit in that chamber than they are right now.

Those are the comments I wanted to make. I hope the words spoken by the members in this place will have some impact on the government to see that there is a reform of parliament and that there is a voice of the people in this parliament.

[Summit Of The Americas, March 27th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, it was quite interesting listening to the Minister for International Trade talk about trade. He stated that the FTAA was all about a rules based system that we needed. It was his government that unilaterally created bad relations with Brazil when it retaliated and stopped importation of meat without much evidence. We all know that it was retaliation against Brazil for not following the WTO.

Now there is a danger that countries like Brazil will ignore WTO rulings and will not follow the rules based system. What is the point of having all these things signed when there is a danger of countries not following the rules?

[Judges Act, March 22nd, 2001]

Madam Speaker, what the member is saying is that the general public pay raises are correspondingly much less than those of privileged positions in society. Lawyers and judges have access to people in power. Therefore they can articulate the need for higher wages for themselves.

As I stated, they are saying that higher wages are needed so that they are not under undue pressure. One could have used the same argument for the police, the ones upholding the law. They should be getting higher salaries so that they are not under pressure as well. That also applies to prison guards and others. The argument could be applied to ordinary Canadians working on the frontlines. I agree with my colleagues. That is why we are debating these issues and that is why the Alliance and many of us are raising them. We are not judge bashing, let me be very clear about that.

[Judges Act, March 22nd, 2001]

Madam Speaker, in my speech I asked members to talk about what their constituents want. I am happy someone took the bait.

On the issue of the member's experience in Alberta, one can relate to the fact that it was a provincial code and therefore the requirement of the province, and we are federal.

I will not speak to that issue but I will speak to the very important issue the member raised about transparency and accountability. The whole point of my speech was accountability and transparency in the bill in reference to our federal jurisdiction, which is judges and the appointment of judges.

The question that he asked was about transcripts being made available for free. That is an issue that should be visited. I agree with him that transparency is very important. In our code system transparency is something that will bring confidence. That is what we need to retain in our court system. That is something that needs to be discussed, and I am glad the member raised the point.

[Judges Act, March 22nd, 2001]

Madam Speaker, I think that was just a ploy so that I could lose a couple of minutes. I hope you will allow me to add the couple of minutes that were wasted so I can tell the member that we are discussing serious issues in this place which are absolutely relevant to what we are talking about.

What we are saying is that we need to discuss important issues. Yes, yesterday's debate was an attempt to bring forward important issues because, under this government, important issues seem to have gone out of the window.

The government does not listen to members in committee. This bill does not even deal with the issue of bringing judges before a committee. It is all patronage and it starts from the PMO's office, which appoints the judges, the senators, the heads of corporations and many board members. This then creates a concentration of power in one place. We just have to look at the situation this afternoon in the House of Commons with respect to the Prime Minister's role in the golf club. This concentration of power can give rise to abuse of power.

I would like to talk for a moment on another subject. My name was selected to present a private member's bill that would address a very important issue that the government has totally neglected. It is the issue of break and enter or home invasion, a crime that has been rising across the country, according to statistics, and a violation of personal privacy.

If anyone wants to know what is happening with break and enter offenders, they need only ask any law enforcement officer or look at the records. Repeat break and enter offenders are receiving conditional or suspended sentences, which creates a cycle of break and enter offences. Why? The simple reason is that they know that if they are caught they will be brought up in front of a court and will probably be on the streets within three weeks to a month committing the same crime. Those who do not believe that should ask any law enforcement officer in their ridings. I request that all 301 members of parliament here talk to their law enforcement officers.

The Canadian Police Association and the Calgary Police Association have endorsed my private member's bill which calls for a minimum sentence of two years for repeat break and enter offenders. The idea is to take these people off the street and put them into a system where they can be rehabilitated. With my break and enter bill, we would be looking at assisting people and, at the same time, removing these habitual offenders off the streets.

Does anyone know what the current sentence is for break and enter? It is life imprisonment. However, we can forget about a life sentence because that is too far out. Most of these offenders get off with suspended or light sentences. That is the reason for the rise in crime. It also raises the concern that there will be more violence. It leads to home invasions, which have the potential of getting violent.

We need to address this issue. We cannot brush it under the carpet. We cannot say that our current legislation is going to meet this rising threat. I do not see the government addressing this issue in any way; hence, I brought in my private member's bill.

One issue that comes out of this bill is the appointment of judges, which I alluded to when I was making my remarks. I have mentioned the concentration of powers in the Prime Minister's Office. One of my colleagues asked this question as well. There is a need for serious consideration in regard to the appointment of judges. The question is whether the appointment of judges should be under one individual's hand, as it is now, or whether it should be under a committee, a committee made up of members of parliament. We can discuss the issues. We can discuss who can be on the committee. We can discuss who can look at the judges who are appointed and make recommendations for appointments and so on.

This brings transparency to the judiciary system and leads to more respect for the judiciary. It is extremely important that we have an independent judiciary system. There is no question about it. We have seen what happens around the world to the populaces of countries where independent judiciary systems do not exist. The populace pays the ultimate price.

No one will ever argue in a democracy that we need separation of powers between the legislation and the independence of the judiciary.

Where the problem arises is with the appointment of judges being done by the PMO, by one individual. What is so difficult about moving this to a committee to make it more transparent? I am sure the judges who are on the benches today would probably all be appointed again. That is fine. That is not the issue I am talking about. I am not talking about the competency of judges. I am talking about a process that should bring transparency. Why can we not have that? I fail to understand why we do not address that issue. We can. Maybe we should. Hopefully it will be on the agenda. This is a bill about judges.

There is a need for change in parliament. There is a need for us to address this and to talk about our constituents. It is true. Yesterday we had a debate on these issues. It is true that a lot of points came out, but are we going anywhere? The answer is no.

The throne speech talked about electronic voting. Great. Electronic voting is the great reform that will take place in this parliament. Give me a break. Is electronic voting why we come here? No. We come here to debate and to stand on votes so that our constituents can see what we are doing.

I have read reports saying that the government is backtracking on electronic voting now, after the hue and cry. I had the pleasure of meeting members of the German parliament who were visiting us and I asked them a question. As we all know, with the unification of Germany a new parliament has been built in Berlin. I asked the visitors for their views on electronic voting. They said no way to electronic voting. The committee that they set up to look at it has totally disregarded it. I asked them why. They said they want their ministers, the people who are in power, not to get it into their heads that they are above ordinary citizens. They said their ministers are part and parcel of the process and they want to see them stand up with them in their parliament. They felt that with electronic voting they would have less access to those in power. I thought about it and I agreed.

Of course a lot of my colleagues from the other side are now joining in the debate and are opposing the electronic voting notion. My friend on the other side is part of this thing and I am sure will join in the debate when he gets time to address this issue.

What is the relevance of what I am talking about? It is accountability. We are asking for transparency and accountability.

Here is an opportunity under Bill C-12 which could have addressed transparency and accountability of judges. However, I have been in committees and I have heard time after time from that side, from parliamentary secretaries and ministers, a reluctance to change. They have a total reluctance to change the system, to better it. We have all heard that change is for the better. We are now in the 21st century, yet this system is what was here 30 or 35 years ago. It is the same system with the same rules. There has been no change. Can we not move forward? Can we not learn? Can we not build on what we have learned?

However, there is this reluctance. Time after time, in the committees and everywhere, I have heard from that side that this is the way the system is and it is fine. Yet there are people asking questions.

This afternoon my colleague from the Conservative Party brought up a fantastic example of what is wrong with the system. It was a fantastic example of a job posting under the federal government, from someone supposedly representing Canada and the unity of Canada, the residence of the Governor General. At this point I must say that I have the highest respect for the Governor General and the comments I will make have absolutely nothing to do with Her Excellency, whom I hold in very high esteem. I am just talking about the process of the government.

Here is the Government of Canada advertising a job situation that is applicable only to a few Canadians. It bars everyone else. If that is not discrimination, what is? Why are we paying with the tax dollars of all Canadians for a job that is restricted for certain Canadians? If people inside this region want to apply and it is convenient for them, so be it. The job should be open to anyone. However, How can a job with a salary paid by taxpayer dollars be restricted to only certain Canadians? It boggles my mind.

We are in the 21st century. These are the issues that we need to debate and to talk about. This imbalance that keeps taking place eventually may become—and I hope never—the threat to our unity. We are all working hard to maintain our nation. As we all know, when we travel abroad we are all proud of the maple leaf. We are proud of what we have achieved and of what other people have achieved, including the immigrants who have come into the country, those who were born here and the first nations. We are proud of everything that has been built here, but there also comes a time to build better, and if we have seen errors, we should learn from them.

All I get from the other side is a total reluctance to change the procedure or change anything, even if it is glaringly in front of our eyes that it is wrong. That advertisement I mentioned was in front of everybody's eyes and was glaringly wrong, but who has the guts to stand up and admit it is wrong? The minister of the treasury today could not admit it was wrong or that she would look at it. She threw the blame on some other government out there in question period, but at no time did she say that she was going to address the issue, that here is a glaring example of what is wrong. When are we going to learn? When are we going to say that we need change? When can we adapt? When can we heal?

Perhaps these members sitting over there can start pondering it and talking about it. If the people over there do not listen, members can stand up in the House of Commons and talk about it. They can talk about what their constituents are saying and represent them properly. It is not only east or west in here. I do not represent only the west. I am here as a Canadian standing in the Canadian House of Commons. I am standing here as a Canadian. Issues of Canadians are being discussed here which are applicable to all Canadians across the nation.

When we see something like that, it makes us angry. When we see the government refusing to address the issues, then we are not proud. How is it possible that the ruling party, supposedly considered one of the most successful ruling parties of our time, as its members say themselves, had to set up a task force and send it to that region of the country to see what is wrong? There was a government that did not even know why people in one half of the country were upset. Why? Because that region has a smaller population, that is why. Those government members are supposed to represent Canada and the government sets up a task force and sends it out there to figure out what is wrong.

There is something amiss. Those individuals are supposed to be in government. Do we know why there is this problem? Because it is the reluctance to change the system that has been entrenched instead of the demand for change. The government members are reluctant to change, so they cannot pick up on the currents taking place in the other regions of the country. They cannot. Their ears are closed because the system allows their ears to be closed.

They sent that committee out there, and lo and behold, it was a joke. Even the members of the committee were not from that part of the region. I do not know what happened. What happened to the committee's report? I do not have a clue as to what happened to that committee. They are still talking about it.

Of course our nation has its great potential, but its great challenges is regionalism. There are challenges and regional challenges and aspirations and regional aspirations. That does not mean that we can stand in the way here.

In conclusion, when I am talking about the Judges Act, I am talking about transparency and I am talking about accountability.