House of Commons photo

Crucial Fact

  • His favourite word was tax.

Last in Parliament April 2025, as Liberal MP for Vaughan—Woodbridge (Ontario)

Lost his last election, in 2025, with 38% of the vote.

Statements in the House

Business of Supply March 21st, 2022

Madam Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise and speak on the NDP opposition motion today. It is also a pleasure to see you in the Chair this afternoon. It is great to be back in Parliament and doing the work our constituents sent us here to do. It is always a privilege and honour to represent the wonderful residents of Vaughan—Woodbridge. The great folks in my riding are entrepreneurial, hard-working and quite passionate.

I would like to add that I will be sharing my time with my wonderful friend and colleague for the amazing riding of Davenport in downtown Toronto.

We speak about affordability, strengthening our middle class and helping those who are working very hard to join the middle class. Our government, since 2015, has put forward a number of measures that continue to pay dividends today. The first thing we did when we assumed power in 2015 was cut taxes for middle-class Canadians. It was literally billions of dollars a year, and in over six years we have probably returned over $20 billion in tax savings to hard-working middle-class Canadians from coast to coast to coast. We also increased taxes on those Canadians who are in the top 1%. This is something that was the right thing to do, and it showed our efforts to make sure that everyone paid their fair share. We also closed tax loopholes. As a finance committee member for my first five years in Parliament, I was very proud to work in that area.

The Liberal government has continued to cut taxes for Canadians. I put forward an idea in our 2019 platform that called for the lifting of the basic personal exemption amount, to expeditiously keep it for middle-class Canadians and not give it to the wealthiest Canadians. That is exactly what we did. It is a great policy, with literally billions of dollars in tax cuts. When it is fully phased in, the first $15,000 of what every Canadian makes would not be taxed at the federal level. I believe that would be fully phased in next year, in 2023.

Again, we are taking necessary steps to help put more money in the pockets of hard-working Canadians. This is something I believe in and something that our government believes in. At the same time, we are investing in Canadians. We have the Canada child benefit, which in my riding of Vaughan—Woodbridge benefits nearly 20,000 kids. It is over $60 million a year, from the last estimate we got, that goes directly into the pockets of hard-working families. It is tax-free and monthly. It is not sent to millionaires. It is sent to hard-working Canadians in my riding and from coast to coast to coast.

We enhanced the Canada pension plan. This is something we worked together with the provinces on, and rightly so, to help Canadians so they could ensure their retirement. We know defined benefit pension plans are fading in the private sector quite quickly. We know that Canadians need to have a secure and dignified retirement. That is why we have undertaken a plethora of measures to help Canadians in their retirement. We made some commitments in our 2021 platform that we will be fulfilling. It is great to see our government continuing to aid seniors.

One thing I am very excited about, and I know that over three million seniors are very excited about in Canada, including many thousands in my riding, is that effective this July, old age security will be increasing by 10%. That is nearly $800 a year in the pockets of seniors. That is something that would assist them, especially with affordability.

With regard to today's opposition motion, we know affordability is of paramount concern to all families. I have three children at home. We go grocery shopping literally almost every day. We know what the cost of formula is, and we know what the costs of cereal and other necessities are for our kids and what they like to eat. Prices are elevated. Prices are higher. We all know that. We know it is having a real impact on the lives of many people in Canada.

We know high inflation is also a global phenomenon. Rising prices are the result of unprecedented challenges in reopening the global economy. We have talked about the supply chain and its impacts. We could look at what the shortage of chips, which are used in almost every product in the world, has limited. It has limited vehicle production, and it is impacting used vehicle prices. It is something we need to be very aware of.

That is why, as a government, we are not standing idly by. We are focused on supporting families and, again, growing and strengthening the middle class, which is the heart of the Canadian economy, and on improving the standard of living for Canadians.

We are taking real action to support Canadian families and making life more affordable for them. This includes historic investments in early learning and child care. Because I am an economist, early learning and child care excites me. It increases the productive capacity of our economy. It is a supply side measure. That improves the standard of living for Canadians and makes our economy more productive. I am very happy to see that nine out of 10 provinces, and all of the territories if I am not mistaken, have signed on to agreements.

I look forward to seeing, fingers crossed, an announcement between the federal government and the Province of Ontario on a child care deal sooner rather than later. My wife and I are putting our young daughter Leia in child care in September or October, so hopefully we will have that child care agreement in place. We know that it is the right thing to do. The $10-a-day regulated child care spaces for children under six years old are a nearly $30-billion investment over five years to help reduce child care costs across Canada. We have signed agreements with all of the provinces except Ontario, and we are working hard to help Ontario families like the ones in my region of Vaughan—Woodbridge.

For those of my colleagues who may not know, child care costs in York Region are among the highest, if not the highest, in the country. I am one of 10 members from that area. We need this deal. This will literally save families thousands of dollars a year in after-tax money. This is not before tax, but after tax. Finance folks should think about the before-tax costs of child care when paying $1,500 to $2,000 a month for a child. It is quite expensive.

The Canadian and Quebec governments have also signed an asymmetrical agreement to strengthen the early learning and child care system in that province, a system that already provides affordable services. Access to quality, affordable child care is not only an important economic policy, it is also a major social policy. It makes life more affordable for families with children. It enables mothers and fathers to work, increasing the workforce.

It creates more labour force participation. That is a great thing for the economy.

It also creates good, well-paying jobs for educators. It will give kids the best possible start in life.

The Canada child benefit is another key part of our efforts to make life more affordable for Canadian families. This program helps 3.5 million families with children every year and puts more money into the pockets of nine in 10 Canadian families, compared to previous child benefit programs. The Canada child benefit has already lifted 435,000 children out of poverty. Payments are indexed yearly to keep up with the rising cost of living.

We realize that COVID‑19 has made life harder for Canadian families, which is why, in 2021, the families that are eligible for the Canada child benefit received up to $1,200 extra during the pandemic for each child under the age of six. This was our way of directly giving more money back to Canadian families to help them deal with pandemic pressures.

The government has also introduced a number of measures to help those who need it the most, some of which complement existing protection. Seniors, as I said at the beginning, will get a 10% increase in old age security payments starting in July for those aged 75 and older. That is almost $800 more for pensioners over the first year. We have to remember that old age security is indexed. That is wonderful. It is great to see, and it will help the 3.3 million seniors who will receive this 10% increase. This is the first permanent increase in old age security since 1973.

I want to mention housing. The city of Vaughan in my riding, which is where I live, has the largest housing developers in the country. We are home to housing and infrastructure. There are so many builders in my riding that I think they control nearly the entire housing market in Ontario. I interact with them all the time. We need to get housing supply built. We need more homes for Canadians. These participants, the developers, builders or however we refer to them, are ready. They have the resources. They want to get the zoning bylaws passed more quickly and get the regulations reduced so that they can build more housing for Ontarians and all Canadians.

Automotive Industry March 21st, 2022

Mr. Speaker, as chair of the Liberal auto caucus, I am well aware that Canada has long been considered a global leader in the auto sector. As this sector transitions toward a greener and zero-emissions future, we know that Canada has every tool needed to be a world leader in EVs and electric batteries: skilled workers, critical minerals, clean and renewable energy, a strong innovation ecosystem and an integrated North American supply chain.

Could the Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry kindly update the House on how the government is securing good, well-paying jobs in the auto sector by making major investments to support the transformation of Canada's automotive manufacturing sector toward electrification?

Economic and Fiscal Update Implementation Act, 2021 March 4th, 2022

Mr. Speaker, on housing affordability we must table measures. One of them will be the $1 billion-plus national accelerator fund. We need to encourage municipalities to speed up the process of approving projects and get shovels in the ground faster. I always hear the comparison that in the United States it can take eight to 12 months to start putting shovels in the ground, but in Canada it is much longer. We must break down the red tape and get more housing built across this country. In my area, the prices that things are selling for are remarkable. We need to get supply out there. This is multi-jurisdictional, and we will work together with all jurisdictions and all levels of government to get it done.

Economic and Fiscal Update Implementation Act, 2021 March 4th, 2022

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question.

I would like to say to him that our government worked very hard with all the provinces in Canada.

During the pandemic, we were there to support the provinces of Quebec and Ontario in long-term care homes.

On measures with regard to housing, obviously there are taxation measures that are very relevant to the federal government that we need to look at and we need to use. There are tools available for us. Our goal is to help with housing affordability and affordable housing. We have done that with the national affordability housing program. We will be bringing out a suite of measures that the minister has been working on. I look forward to seeing them. They were in our platform and Canadians voted for them. We are going to see them in the coming weeks and months.

Economic and Fiscal Update Implementation Act, 2021 March 4th, 2022

Mr. Speaker, obviously I was not at the finance committee and do not know whether an amendment was put forward or not by the opposition or the government. What I will say is that in Bill C-8 there are a number of measures that continue to help businesses, employers and Canadians on an individual basis. There is an improved tax credit for educators. There is the ventilation tax credit, as the member mentioned.

In terms of the start date, whether it was September or another date, I am not privy to the rationale there. However, I know that the measures we brought in have helped Canadian businesses and have assisted them weather the storm. For any changes on ventilation, which is very important for businesses, we will continue to be there to assist them.

Economic and Fiscal Update Implementation Act, 2021 March 4th, 2022

Mr. Speaker, good afternoon and happy Friday to everyone as I begin to speak on Bill C-8. Before I begin, I did have a chance to do a Standing Order 31 statement on Ukraine. I want to speak about Olena, who was the intern in my office as part of the number of Ukrainian youth who come to Parliament. They have not come for a couple years now because of COVID. My thoughts, my prayers and the prayers of all Canadians are with her and the people of Ukraine at this very difficult period they are going through.

Rest assured that Canada, our government, is there for them and we are with them, not only today or tomorrow but for all the days ahead so that the Ukrainian people can live in a free and democratic society. We want to ensure that Liberal democracies throughout the world have a path for freedom and democracy for their individuals. Liberal democracies are under attack because of Russian aggression. We must go to the wall, as I say, in helping the people of Ukraine and make sure that they are able to have a free, democratic and prosperous future. I want to say to Olena that she is in my prayers. Keep sending me messages on Instagram. I will keep responding and we will keep being there as best as we can for her.

It is a pleasure to rise today and chat about Bill C-8 being debated again. This is another measure that our government has brought forward to ensure that we recover, we continue to grow and we come out of this pandemic even stronger, not only for our economy but as a nation, as a people. Despite what is happening in Ukraine, which has received a lot of attention, and rightly so, we are still fighting a pandemic here at home and globally. Our focus is multi-faceted, but we still need to get that job done. We will, and Bill C-8 is part and parcel of that. It is obviously part of our fiscal update that was tabled in Parliament on December 14, 2021.

I know much reference has been made to affordability here in the House. What I can say, as a father of three children and as someone who lives in York Region, is that our government is aware of this. The empathy is there. We have cut taxes several times for middle-class Canadians. We have raised them on the wealthiest 1%. We will always be there for middle-class Canadians and hard-working Canadians. We will make sure that they can get ahead and that they have a better future for their families.

We will be there today and tomorrow. I look forward to whenever budget 2022 comes out, because I know the focus of the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance is ensuring that middle-class Canadians and their families have a great future. That is why I am part of the Liberal team. I have been a Liberal for many decades, and I will continue to fight for middle-class Canadians to ensure they have a bright and prosperous future.

In December, the government released the economic and fiscal update. The update provided important information about the government's continued support for Canadians and Canadian businesses during the COVID-19 pandemic. Today, I would like to speak about one aspect of Bill C-8 that would implement measures in the update that build on steps already taken to keep Canadians safe and help the economy recover.

The government has made the health and safety of Canadians its top priority since the beginning of the pandemic.

While the government has been focusing on a strong economic recovery, it has also been investing in vaccines and booster shots and taking other important measures.

Vaccination is one of the most effective ways to protect our families, communities and ourselves from COVID-19. Vaccines are effective in preventing severe illness, hospitalization and death from COVID-19, including the omicron variant. We must say that Canadians, unfortunately even today, are still passing away from COVID-19 and the variant, so we must remain vigilant as a society and as a country.

Today, Canada's immunization campaign has been highly successful thanks to an effective procurement strategy, a strong and agile regulatory system and clear and consistent work by public health workers and governments across the country. We are protecting children by making sure that Canada has the pediatric vaccines needed for children five and over to get their shots. We are also ensuring that booster shots are free for all Canadians, just as first and second doses have been.

Manufacturers have also run clinical trials of their vaccines for children in all age ranges, including children under five. They are expected to seek regulatory approval next month. The fact that children are able to be vaccinated will help prevent outbreaks in schools and help keep kids, teachers, school staff and parents safe.

As we know, millions of Canadians have been doing their part by getting vaccinated. As of mid-January, 81% of Canadians age five years and older have received their first two doses, and 41% of those 18 years and over having received their third, or booster shots, as well. In fact, Canada has the fourth-highest vaccination rate in the G20 and the second-highest in the G7.

Canada's existing agreements with Pfizer and Moderna provide for enough vaccine doses for all eligible Canadians to receive first, second, third and even fourth doses if necessary. The agreements also include options to procure vaccine adaptations such as those to protect against mutations or variants of concern. The government has also made investments to secure millions of booster doses for the years to come.

Our government, the federal government, is also committed to a national proof-of-vaccination standard. All provinces and territories have already implemented proof-of-vaccination requirements, including standardized pan-Canadian proof-of-vaccine credentials.

The requirement to show proof of vaccination to travel within and outside Canada and to enter businesses and public spaces helps protect Canadians from COVID‑19.

To implement such a requirement, it is essential to have reliable, standardized proof of vaccination status that works from coast to coast to coast and internationally.

The federal government is also working with international partners to ensure that the standardized Canadian proof of vaccination is widely recognized abroad, allowing fully vaccinated Canadians to travel anywhere in the world.

In order to support proof of vaccination, the government worked with the provinces and territories on developing a pan-Canadian proof-of-vaccination standard, which helps fully vaccinated Canadians travel within the country and abroad.

The government is currently setting aside the necessary funds to help the provinces and territories cover the cost of implementing new proof-of-vaccination programs.

As indicated in the economic and fiscal update, the government is committed to supporting the provinces and territories in implementing proof of vaccination by introducing the COVID-19 proof of vaccination fund.

Bill C-8 contains many measures to help Canadians on an individual basis and with their businesses. One of the measures in Bill C-8 is on extending the time period for CEBA so that individuals who have received payments from CEBA will be able to pay them back. If we look back over the pandemic, sometimes we think about how it has been two years and that time has passed. The CEBA helped nearly a million businesses across this country from coast to coast to coast. It was a vital lifeline to many of our small businesses. It kept them afloat. It helped them pay expenses. It helped them pay salaries, heating bills and so forth. It allowed them to weather the storm that was COVID-19 and that COVID-19 continues to be, although less so, thank God, as we move forward.

Also, with regard to Bill C-8, our government has stressed the need for more affordable housing and measures to help with housing affordability, including a vacancy tax. There are very simple measures we can do. I hope to see the elimination of blind bidding, which I know in the area I live in, from the feedback I have received, is a big problem for many individuals. Bringing more certainty and transparency, much like the Australian model and the U.K. model, to purchasing a home would be a big step for middle-class Canadians and many of the middle-class Canadians who live in my riding of Vaughan—Woodbridge.

It has been great to speak about Bill C-8. I look forward to answering questions and comments from colleagues.

Ukraine March 4th, 2022

Mr. Speaker, in 2018, Olena Yurchyshyn, a young Ukrainian student, passionate about learning and contributing to a democratic society, shadowed me here in Parliament as she completed her internship in my office. Since then, Olena would usually reach out to share her extraordinary accomplishments or to talk about her most recent travels. After four years, Olena's message has a different tone, one filled with fear and despair.

Today Olena pleads that parliamentarians and Canadians do everything we can to support a free and democratic Ukraine. Canada stands with Olena and all the people of Ukraine who deserve a future filled with hope and optimism.

The solidarity and generosity shown by Canada and its allies are strengthening the courage and spirit of the Ukrainian people.

I want all young Ukrainians to know that the world stands with Ukraine in this battle for their future.

Canada stands firm against terror and tyranny.

We will continue to take strong action to support Ukraine in the name of democracy, freedom and human rights.

Slava Ukraini.

Permanent Residency for Temporary Foreign Workers February 28th, 2022

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to see my colleagues this morning, albeit virtually, and I do wish everyone safe travels as a majority of MPs return for the first sitting week of March.

Today, I will be providing remarks in support of Motion No. 44 on permanent residency for temporary foreign workers. I wish to sincerely congratulate a great colleague, but more importantly a close friend, the member of Parliament for Surrey Centre, for his tireless work in pushing forward this motion and for his advocacy in strengthening all facets of our immigration system. I have had the opportunity to work with the member on immigration, and his interventions are always timely and substantive.

Motion No. 44 develops a plan that is good for the economy and allows us to build a more inclusive and diverse country by attracting and retaining individuals from all over the world with diverse and, I would argue, in-demand skill sets and work experiences. When we speak about skill sets, as demonstrated by the pandemic and over the course of our history as a country, those so-called low-skilled jobs are, in fact, some of the most important in our labour force. Motion No. 44 would provide accessible pathways to permanent residency status to workers who have traditionally been considered as lower skilled. This is the right thing to do economically and morally.

I am the son of immigrants who came and contributed much to this country. My grandparents and their seven children left an impoverished southern Italy in the late 1950s with literally only a suitcase and limited skills, but also with a can-do work attitude, a drive to create a better future for their children and a desire to help build and contribute to this country we call home. Today, they would be viewed low-skilled newcomers, but, frankly, I completely beg to differ.

Before I provide further remarks on Motion Mo. 44, I would like to take a moment to comment on the situation in Ukraine. We are all Ukrainian at this moment in our global history. Our very fundamental belief in liberal democracy and our western values of democracy and self-determination are under attack. They are under attack by a corrupt despot, a corrupt dictator, someone who is dangerous not only to the Ukrainian people, but to his own people. He must be stopped.

Liberal democracies will win and the Ukrainian people will themselves and only themselves determine their future. It is their right of self-determination. This battle is not only about the Ukraine, but about the future of liberal democracies themselves. As stated by a TV commentator last night, “The Ukrainian people have lit a spark that is uniting the world against tyranny.”

Returning to Motion No. 44, the motion asks the House to develop and publicly release, within 120 days, a plan that ultimately helps to address the persistent labour shortages seen by employers across Canada. These labour shortages in many sectors of our economy are only anticipated to get worse as literally millions of Canadians exit the labour market for retirement and our birth rate continues to decline. Immigration is imperative not only for building a better and more inclusive country, but also for our economic well-being.

The member for Surrey Centre is correct in identifying a plan to expand pathways to permanent residency for temporary foreign workers, including international students with significant work experience in this country. This is the correct pathway to take. Immigration, for me, should be looked at as a nation-building exercise and not simply as a plug for economic growth. This motion, combined with a number of policy measures we have introduced over the last six years as a government, takes us in that direction.

We know that our government, since 2015, has significantly expanded the absolute levels of newcomers to Canada to now over 400,000 per year and increased the number of pathways, including through the Atlantic immigration pilot, the northern immigration pilot, the agri-food pilot and others. However, we must do more, and Motion No. 44 takes us in that direction.

We are allowing newcomers to come to Canada and bring their entrepreneurial spirit and diverse set of skills, which are in demand. When we look at the components of the motion, which I will spend the rest of my time talking about, I wish to focus on part (a) of the motion. It states:

(a) amending eligibility criteria under economic immigration programs to give more weight to significant in-Canada work experience and expand the eligible occupational categories and work experience at various skills levels

Frankly, I have advocated for this for many years since becoming a parliamentarian. Having Canadian work experience, to me, is the best indicator of success and the best indicator of future success. On language requirements, let us think about this. How many of our Ukrainian, Portuguese, Italian and Spanish people, and those educated in non-English, non-Commonwealth countries, would be able to come to Canada today? There would not be very many at all.

We know that under express entry, for example, the pathway for individuals who have very high levels of English and, say, a Ph.D. or commensurate academic credentials is easier. However, the fact is that many of the jobs that are unfulfilled and in demand are in skilled trades, hospitality, health care, the agricultural sector, the engineering sector and our manufacturing facilities. All of these sectors are vital to the Canadian economy and our future economic well-being.

For instance, if a temporary foreign worker comes to Canada for a two-year period under an LMIA, as we can imagine, they begin their employment, start putting down roots in their community and begin their integration period in this country. After a two-year period, in the normal course, individuals in a career path or with a NOC code, with an average English skill set, would not be able to remain in Canada because they do not have enough points, maybe because they are a little older or because they have not received higher-level education. This is wrong and it needs to change. Motion No. 44 takes us down this route, and I congratulate the member for Surrey Centre for bringing the motion forward.

For example, a concrete finisher, a carpenter or whatever skilled trades individual who comes to Canada could work here for two years but could not stay here permanently. The individual would be under an LMIA for two years but with no clear pathway to remain in this country. That is wrong. This serves as a large disincentive for someone wanting to come to Canada. Uprooting themselves and their families and then being forced to go back is not an investment I or anyone would want to take. We need to re-examine this and give more weight to those working here in Canada, contributing, paying their taxes and, frankly, being awesome citizens. These people are our friends and neighbours and they want to become part of the permanent Canadian landscape.

This pathway would also save employers literally thousands of dollars a year to renew their LMIA and save workers the same. Some applications for LMIAs cost several thousands of dollars. I am not just talking $2,000 or $3,000, but $5,000 or $6,000. This is an inefficient and bureaucratic process. We must look at ways to streamline our system, and Motion No. 44 would take a large step in that direction.

Another part of the motion that I am very supportive of is part (c):

incorporating data on labour market and skills shortages to align policy on immigrant-selection with persistent labour gaps

As I was reading through Motion No. 44 this morning and over the weekend, I noted part (c) on data. We are a government that since 2015 has been driven by data and science. We know that when we make good policy decisions that incorporate the most relevant and up-to-date data, we make the right decisions. We know that in our immigration system, we need to make sure we are identifying sectors of the economy that require labour.

I will give an example in my remaining time. I received a phone call several weeks ago from the owner of one of the largest employers in the city of Vaughan. He is in need of approximately 250 to 300 people to work at his factories. His orders from the United States are overflowing. At the same time, it is very difficult for this individual to find local labour, which is non-existent, to be honest, here in the GTA, and to bring in temporary foreign workers to work in his plant. Why? It is because they are what are called medium-skilled jobs in light manufacturing. However, they create economic success in our country to serve our export markets. My answer to this entrepreneur was that he would have to sponsor each individual through an LMIA process, a very laborious process, so we also need to look at that process.

What Motion No. 44 means is that when we look at the manufacturing sector, the agriculture sector or health services, we need the most up-to-date and relevant data so we can make the best decisions. On the language requirements, which I know the member for Surrey Centre flagged at the beginning, a building could not be put up in downtown Toronto right now if we asked that all the individuals involved had the language requirements to become Canadian citizens. I will leave that thought for all 337 of my colleagues. A building could not be built in downtown Toronto or across the GTA if we asked all the individuals working on the sites to have the English requirements to immigrate to this country today.

I again congratulate the member for Surrey Centre for a job well done.

Father Vito Marziliano February 21st, 2022

Madam Speaker, it is with a heavy heart that I rise as the Catholic community grieves the sudden passing of a beloved friend, mentor and humble servant of the Lord, Father Vito Marziliano. Father Vito was larger than life: kind, caring and joyful. He was an inspirational leader and servant, and his thought-provoking homilies and the wisdom he shared will live forever in our hearts and minds.

When I think of Father Vito, I am reminded of the prayer of St. Francis:

Lord make me an instrument of Your peace.
Where there is hatred, let me sow love.
Where there is injury, pardon.
Where there is doubt, faith.
Where there is despair, hope.
Where there is darkness, light.
Where there is sadness, joy.

Father Vito embodied this prayer. He was truly a gift from God. He had a profound ability to connect with others, and everyone felt his kindness. The unprecedented outpouring of grief and love by those who treasured Father Vito is a testament to the depth of his connection with our community.

Rest in peace, Father Vito.

Prega per noi.

Emergencies Act February 21st, 2022

Madam Speaker, I just wish to say to the member for Parry Sound—Muskoka that I really liked his speech today and I liked the tone and the call for unity. To be frank, I would have expected nothing less from having, in the last few months, gotten to know this member of Parliament, who I know represented his constituents not only at the federal level and but also at the municipal level, and whom I count as a friend, both today as a parliamentarian and in the future, when I may not be in the House, hopefully about 10 or 15 years from now.

He quoted Lincoln and that gives me utmost respect for him, as it would for anybody who knows about history, but I will ask the member about the fact that we are having a debate on the Emergencies Act. It is time-limited and it is proportionate. It has gotten the job done.

I wanted to get this member's view on that.