Garry Breitkreuz

[Supply, November 30th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, I had a question for the previous speaker from the Liberal side but the question, in a little different form, is just as valid for the Bloc.

One of the problems we have in Canada is the severe cutbacks to the RCMP. Some detachments are short 40 members and money is a problem. At the same time, one of the initiatives the government claims it has taken to combat crime is the national gun registry with in the neighbourhood of $300 million already being put in up front.

Hopefully the member for the Bloc has informed himself as to the usefulness of the gun registry. In fact, the papers in Quebec today had some excellent articles on the national gun registry and its ineffectiveness. I recommend that he reads some of those papers. They are in French so it is difficult for me to get all of the different nuances. However, it becomes clear that there are some huge problems.

Would he agree with the solicitor general of Ontario who two weeks ago said that the government should scrap the national gun registry and put more police on the street to fight organized crime and some of these other things? Would he agree that should be the tact of the government, to save those hundreds of millions of dollars, put it into fighting organized crime and putting more police on the street?

[Canadian Institutes Of Health Research Act, November 29th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. Because of the subject matter, and I think you will find it of great interest, could I get unanimous consent to have about seven or eight minutes?

[Canadian Institutes Of Health Research Act, November 29th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to address Bill C-13 as well. I am sure you cannot remember back 100 years ago. My memory is quite limited when it comes to that as well, but it is very interesting to read about what happened back in 1899. One hundred years ago there were all kinds of predictions that would—

[Canadian Wheat Board, November 29th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, last Monday 27 farmers were found guilty of illegally exporting grain by a Regina court. These farmers received thousands of dollars in fines.

In September an aboriginal farmer from Lethbridge, Alberta was found guilty of illegally exporting grain, but instead of receiving fines he was given an absolute discharge because the justice presiding over the case said that he only did it to challenge the Canadian Wheat Board's marketing authority.

We have two different standards in this country. This group of 27 farmers was also challenging the Canadian Wheat Board's marketing authority, yet it received huge fines. Even Provincial Court Judge Bruce Henning said the farmers were only testing the law. He said “I accept that they were sincere in believing they were not breaking the law because they believed it was invalid”.

The courts are playing favourites. In the meantime our government does nothing. It is time the government ended this unfair treatment of the people who feed this country.

When will the government end its autocratic rule over western Canadian farmers?

[Canadian Institutes Of Health Research Act, November 25th, 1999]

Madam Speaker, it is indeed a pleasure to raise some issues that relate to this bill. I must say at the beginning that the government has been slow off the mark. This is something that should have been done years and years ago.

One of the concerns we have in agriculture on the prairies is the lack of research that has been done in relation to GMOs. Madam Speaker, I can see you are a bit puzzled when I use the term GMOs. Let me explain that.

A GMO is a genetically modified organism. It is something that scientists are able to do with an organism through the use of gamma rays or some such technique. They are able to bombard the essential ingredients of life and in some way mutate them and develop organisms that are resistant to certain diseases and which have certain characteristics that might take a much longer time to develop naturally.

There have been genetically modified organisms all throughout history because they occur naturally. The rays of the sun will create these kinds of things. Farmers have been growing genetically modified plants for years and years.

One of the problems that is developing is the fear campaign that is being spread by certain organizations. We have seen it in Europe. It is creating the concern that these are going to somehow impact our life and cause a lot of problems. We need research in that area and it needs to be done now.

I realize that most members who have spoken so far have supported this and by and large we need this. My concern with what the government has put forward is that if the guidelines are not implemented properly, the committee that is selected may just be another patronage haven for the Prime Minister. We have to make sure there is a complete balance in the membership of the committee that selects the particular members and that selects the various projects.

Consideration must be given to some of the concerns in rural Canada, for example, research that would address the whole area of GMOs. If the question of whether or not GMOs are harmful is not answered quite soon, it will hurt the economy of our country. That is why I say this is something that should have been done a long time ago. I am glad the government is doing it now and my hope is that the type of research that needs to be done will get done.

Bloc members have been arguing that this is an area of provincial jurisdiction. Research in some areas, such as the one I have just described which pertains to agriculture and the growing of certain crops and whether those crops have a harmful or helpful effect on us as human beings needs to be done. That kind of research would transcend provincial boundaries. That is a concern in more areas and possibly one could get around the concern the Bloc has by having provinces co-operate in this.

I also have concerns, as I mentioned previously on another bill, that this could develop a huge bureaucracy that would suck a lot of funds out of the system that could have gone to research. There has to be some check, some balance in the bill to ensure that does not happen.

I agree that research is very important and we need to have public input into research. Is the government willing to make some of the amendments that Reform is suggesting in regard to this? We have to work more co-operatively even in this House.

I realize that in this bill the government has broken some new ground. There is more public accountability. It is providing for this kind of thing. Why does the government not do that in other areas?

The Prime Minister makes 5,000 patronage appointments every year. We do not just need reform in the health care research area. We need reform in many other areas where there is more public accountability and input. I hope this bill will break new ground and the government will see this is absolutely necessary in many other areas. For the Prime Minister to have that much power to control that many organizations and to have that much input is not healthy in a democratic society. That is something which I hope will be raised more and more as we go along.

I bring up the topic of gun control. Madam Speaker, you may be a bit shocked as to why I would raise this issue in the context of this bill, but I have said on many occasions that the hundreds of millions of dollars that are now being spent laying a piece of paper beside every gun in the country, referring to the gun registry, is a complete waste of time. If we want to save lives, we should begin to divert funds from some of these ridiculous, useless projects implemented by the government and put them into health research. It is a no brainer as to what would save more lives. A gun registry does not save a life. It cannot. If we put funds into the health research area, it would genuinely do something to enhance our quality of life. I hope this issue will be raised. I hope the government is listening and will address that.

My concern in relation to this bill is that the government may lay down the rules for the various projects. If it is able to make some of these appointments, there may not be a fair hearing. The people who make the rules generally call the shots. If the government gets too involved in making the rules that these various projects have to follow, that could manipulate the process and some of the best projects may never be realized. The research that needs to be done may not be done. I hope that all segments of society will be well respected.

One of the concerns raised by my constituents over and over again is that much of the research is funded by private drug companies and in doing that, they determine the outcome of the research. The person who pays the piper calls the tune. I know the government says that it will collaborate with private industry and so on but the concern is that therefore if it does that, a lot of the research that would be very helpful to Canadians will not be done. Research into health food products, organic foods and the use of herbs in enhancing the health of people may never be done.

I want to make the point forcefully that we should be looking at alternatives to the medicines being used at the present time. The emphasis on drug research is not what we need in Canada. We need to look at many other areas. People in my constituency feel very strongly that the government is not doing enough research in that area.

We talked about the brain drain today. The government has been draining the brains of this country for a long time and it is going to take a lot to reverse that. I hope something like this will improve that concern people have. I cannot emphasize enough that we have to keep our young people at home. We have to get them researching these areas and making sure some of the benefits of organic foods, health food products, herbs and so on are recognized.

I come back to what I was saying at the beginning, that these genetically modified organisms and foods people are scared about will be properly researched. I am not aware of a whole lot of research that has been done. That will take a long time to do.

I am going to watch this bill with interest. A lot of things still need to be ironed out. People have concerns about health care research. I am glad the government is addressing it, but we have to make sure that we keep on track and ensure that all Canadians have a voice in the research being done here and that it is equal and does not favour certain segments of society.

[Municipal Grants Act, November 25th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to make a few brief comments before the debate on this bill is over.

I have looked at this bill and have done some studies on my own. I asked some questions of the lawyers who do research for us in this esteemed place. I asked them to examine some of the recent legislation in the House to find out which of those pieces of legislation take powers away from parliament and give them to the bureaucracy. They had never been asked a question like that. They were absolutely astounded when they finished examining the first six pieces of legislation and found that in every single instance it was taking power away from parliament and giving it to the bureaucracy. This bill is not any different.

One of the real problems the Reform Party has with what is sometimes called a housekeeping bill or legislation that is very innocuous is that it maintains or increases the power of the bureaucracy. That is the biggest problem we have with this bill.

One Reform Party policy states very clearly under the topic of parliamentary reform that we believe and insist that all laws pertaining to individuals and the private sector apply equally to the Government of Canada, its personnel, its agencies and parliament. That is one of the things the Reform Party stands for.

Bill C-10 still provides for ministerial discretion as to whether the payments in lieu of taxes will be paid by the government. There is still no binding means of recourse in the event of a dispute over payment. The power still lies with the federal government. This is not the case for the private sector where the payment of property and business occupancy taxes are mandatory and the decisions on appeals are binding on both parties.

The Government of Canada and its crown agencies maintain privileged positions. They are not relinquishing that in any way, no matter what the appearances are in this bill. That is a concern to us. That should be fixed with the proper amendments.

There are some good things in the bill. The interest may now be paid on late payments. Payments may be made on federal properties leased to third parties, if at the end of the taxation year they are still in a state of delinquency. Some types of structures, for example, outdoor swimming pools, golf courses and outdoor theatres have been added to the definition of federal property. There is an advisory panel that serves as a committee of appeal regarding payment disputes with crown corporations.

However, there are problems that need to be fixed. One of the things we have a problem with is that the minister and the crown agencies still maintain too much discretionary power. In other words, they can still do as they wish. Why not fix that? People should know what the rules are. Everyone in the country should follow them.

The recommendations of the dispute advisory panel are non-binding. Why not? It merely maintains the status quo and entrenches some common practices into legislation that were put in place 16 years ago. If something is broken and there is an opportunity to fix it, why not fix it? That is what should happen in this legislation.

As my hon. colleague for Kelowna has mentioned, the Royal Canadian Mint, Canada Post Corporation and Canadian Mortgage and Housing Corporation should be added to schedule IV in order that they would be eligible to pay business occupancy payments in lieu of taxes.

We recommend that these problems with the bill be addressed.

I would like to review the purpose of the bill. The purpose of the legislation is to provide for fair and equitable administration of payments in lieu of taxes. It addresses the issues of compensation for untimely payments, defaults and tax obligations by certain tenants of the crown and the bi-jural nature of the Canadian legal system.

Additionally, it establishes an advisory panel to advise the minister on disputes concerning payment amounts. It also amends the title of the act to payments in lieu of taxes act. That is the essential purpose. Anybody watching this should know what is going on here.

I will mention one of the things I mentioned previously when I rose to ask some questions because it is of great concern to my constituents. When it comes to administration of some of the things within government, and it is not strictly tied to this bill, the services should be delivered by the agencies closest to the people. They should have more control over the tax burden that those people experience. At the present time the federal government has a tremendous power to tax.

One of the legitimate concerns that my colleagues in the Bloc have is that the federal government overrides the jurisdiction of the provinces. I do not sympathize very much with what the Bloc members have to say, but in this respect they make a good point that we have a federal government that intrudes into many areas.

For example, one area I am very familiar with is gun control. I know my reputation precedes me, but I think this is an opportunity for me to raise the issue when we are talking about municipal and provincial levels of government in relation to the federal government. This is an area where the federal government clearly intrudes into areas of provincial jurisdiction and it does it in devious ways. By going through the Criminal Code of Canada it can override the jurisdiction of the provinces in regard to regulation of property.

Bill C-10 is another example of that. We have to put some restraint on the bureaucracy in Ottawa so it cannot ride roughshod and arbitrarily over the rights of some of the municipalities in relation to some of these things. Mr. Speaker, I gather by the way you are listening very carefully, that probably nobody has made that point in the debate so far.

I have a concern that the federal government collects huge amounts of taxes. It collects them through some of its crown agencies, three of which I have previously mentioned. We have a concern that the government is collecting taxes when it should not be. It charges a huge handling fee for this kind of thing. The people purportedly to whom the service is given do not reap the full benefit they could, judging by the tax burden that they are under.

I want to raise one other issue which does not tie in directly, but many farmers in my area are very concerned with the municipal property tax and the way it is administered. Much of this is a provincial matter, but it gives me an opportunity to say that there is an unfair tax put on farmers. It is the education tax that is tied in with the property taxes. Perhaps that is something we should urge the federal government to speak up on.

I am pleased to have had the opportunity to make a few comments in regard to this bill. While I would like to share my time with my colleague from Wild Rose, I understand I cannot do that. I will therefore end my speech and hopefully there will be some time for him to make a few remarks as well.

[Municipal Grants Act, November 25th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, I found it very interesting to listen to some of the criticism by the Bloc of the bill. I have a few questions that I would like to ask in this regard.

It becomes abundantly clear, when one has been in the position I have been in for a number of years, that when funds are collected by the federal government the handling fee, so to speak, becomes very great. I know the Bloc is pushing for a lot of the money to be transferred back to the provinces and so on, but we are talking about municipalities.

Would the Bloc agree that it would be better not to have the money sent to the federal government? Would the Bloc agree that we should leave the money in the municipalities, leave it in the constituencies, and let the people decide the level of tax they want?

We in the Reform Party firmly believe, if we want effective government services, that the closer those services can be delivered to the people the better off they will be. I wonder if the member would agree with that. He talked about the federal surplus. What is wrong with reducing taxes? Why not leave the money in the pockets of the people?

Anyone who has studied this point has come to the conclusion that if we want to create real jobs we have to reduce the tax burden. The biggest tax burden is imposed by the federal government. That would do more to stimulate the economy in local constituencies than anything else.

Would the member agree that the money should be left with the people? We should let the people of Quebec, the people of the local municipalities, decide. A tremendous bureaucracy is developed in the federal government when it is allowed to tax at the level it has taxed, and there is a huge handling fee.

Property taxes in Saskatchewan are a huge problem because two-thirds of the component of property taxes go toward education. This puts an unfair burden on certain groups of people such as farmers who are trying to make a living from the land. Would the member not agree that if a certain level of government such as a provincial government handles education in a province it should be the one to equitably fund it?

[Gun Registration, November 24th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, the minister continues to defend something that is indefensible. If the gun registry is working so well, why did the Minister of Justice receive a letter two weeks ago from the solicitor general of Ontario calling on her to scrap the gun registry system?

When will the minister follow this advice, cut her losses, save taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars and scrap the registry?

[Gun Registration, November 24th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, the justice minister commissioned an auditing firm to review the entire gun registry system.

Through access to information, I find out that this secret report concludes that, after taking more than three years and $300 million to design, this system is inflexible, inefficient and inoperable and tinkering will not fix it.

How much more money are we going to throw at a system that her own study says is just plain not working?

[Supply, November 22nd, 1999]

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The member did not hear my question. He said that the Liberals do not vote by rote.