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Track Hedy

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  • Her favourite word is please.

Liberal MP for Vancouver Centre (B.C.)

Won her last election, in 2025, with 55% of the vote.

Statements in the House

Controlled Drugs And Substances Act October 30th, 1995

Mr. Speaker, I rise to speak in support of Bill C-7.

The revisions to the bill, the changes made since it passed second reading in the House, combine two quite different approaches to the control of drugs. The approaches are different but they are actually complementary.

The first enshrines an attitude of tolerance, compassion and concern for the drug addicted person. The government believes that someone convicted of a drug offence, a user who shows genuine desire to recover from his or her addiction deserves the chance and opportunity to rebuild and renew their lives on a healthy, law-abiding basis.

This component speaks therefore of rehabilitation and speaks to the health aspect of drug use.

The second approach is to reinforce our longstanding condemnation of violent behaviour or any drug dealing that harms our youth and other vulnerable citizens.

The government believes drug offences and the negative social impact of drug offences escalate directly in proportion to the age of the person, which means the younger the person, the greater the social and physical harm that occurs as a result of the use of drugs.

These approaches to the control of drugs reflect the spirit of the red book "Creating Opportunity". A principal objective of this book is to strengthen Canadian society by protecting individuals from crime and violence on the streets and in the playgrounds.

Bill C-7 works to achieve this end. It clearly identifies a need for extra protection against crimes around schools where young people are involved. However, it goes further in creating opportunity. It creates opportunity for offenders to get treatment. It creates opportunity for enforcement to be more effective. It creates opportunity for the justice system to deal more even handedly with the various substances and offences that are the subject of the bill.

Bill C-7 is more than a housekeeping bill. It achieves a balance between the need for compassionate health and social components of drug use and the need to punish and deal with the criminal and violent aspects of drug use.

True to this purpose, we have brought the Narcotic Control Act and parts of the Food and Drugs Act together to deal with controlled substances and narcotic preparations. It modernizes procedure to a certain extent. It expands control over a wider range of substances, but it is more comprehensive than that.

In the case of one substance that has caused major concern for policy makers and the public over many years, it incorporates a revised and more current understanding of how Canadians want to deal with marijuana. Cannabis and its derivatives from now on will have a distinct schedule in the bill, schedule I(i). Cannabis has been set apart from other hard drugs. It is being treated separately.

As we will see from this amended bill, government has taken very seriously the concerns expressed by witnesses of committee hearings and also by members of the House who have come together to tell us what they think of the bill. I am therefore pleased to say changes and measures have been instituted in order to reflect a more Liberal policy with regard to harm reduction, rehabilitation and the societal aspects of drug use.

Hon. members know the consultative process is inherent and very important in the parliamentary committee system. Committees collect the views of people on the street. One of the strengths of the process is that it brings forward a range of opinions and perspectives not necessarily obvious to those who prepare the original drafts of legislation. On this note I congratulate all members of the subcommittee from all parties and thank all witnesses who provided testimony on this legislation.

When we start talking about illicit substances such as marijuana and cocaine people want to broaden the horizons. Many of the witnesses who came to the subcommittee on health were not really addressing Bill C-7 specifically. They wanted to put broader issues on the agenda such as a more socially responsible approach to dealing with cannabis. It is argued there may be times when people are guilty of simple possession by aberration. They have been to a party, accepted a gift and have been caught. In such a circumstance the criminal mark should not be on record for the rest of their lives.

It cannot be denied that a large number of Canadians are at least tolerant of soft drug use. They have heard a former Prime Minister and the President of the United States admit to experimenting with

marijuana. They see courts routinely granting absolute or conditional discharges for simple possession charges while imposing fines for simple traffic violations.

Some people in subcommittee were even saying we should decriminalize marijuana. However, by international law we cannot decriminalize it. We have to consider it a criminal offence but we can deal with the consequences associated with marijuana. That is one of the changes that has come through in this newly amended bill.

Specifically for possession of marijuana, 30 grams or less, we have reduced the seriousness of the offence. The negative impact on someone charged with this offence will be changed. No fingerprints or photographs will be taken by police officers. No traceable record will appear in national criminal databases. The law has been modified.

This does not mean that the penalties have been reduced. They have not. The penalty for possession of 30 grams or less of cannabis continues to be a $1,000 fine or six months or both. It is the ancillary impacts that will change. A conviction on this charge will not curb one's ability to travel internationally, for instance. It will not interfere with getting a job.

Another concern raised in subcommittee was to put something in the bill to ask the courts to move toward rehabilitation and treatment instead of automatically treating all users as hardened criminals. Therefore, the introduction of section 11, which deals with sentencing, addresses this concern. Judges are encouraged to order rehabilitation and treatment in appropriate circumstances.

This said, it was not the government's intention that the bill would alter or review existing drug policy. It was meant to bring aspects of administration up to date from existing legislation that dates back to the 1960s, and it gives effect to Canada's commitments on the various international agreements dealing with narcotics and psychotropic substances.

There is a change in penalties for trafficking in three kilograms of cannabis or less. Here the maximum penalty is lowered from 14 years down to five years less a day. The reason for this is not because the gravity of the offence has been diminished. In fact, the subcommittee wanted to deal with trafficking as harshly. However, the lesser sentence achieves another goal: it leads to a streamlining of the judicial process. It hastens cases through the courts by eliminating requirements for preliminary hearings and trials by jury. It is not expected to change actual sentencing patterns. Even though the courts have been able to go to 14 years, they have not really been giving sentences anywhere near that length.

From now on drug charges will represent the true offences. Until now, when trafficking has been the issue prosecutors would often reduce it to a possession charge, rather than proceed through a full pre-trial and trial by jury. Now prosecutors will be more likely to lay the charges they should have been laying. In fact there is no intention to give any signal that the penalties that are currently being given for the offence are not appropriate. This is not getting soft on traffickers. Streamlining the prosecution of these offences would be a net gain for the criminal justice process but would not mean an actual reduction in sentences, given current practice.

I alluded to the approach this bill takes to discouraging violence and any drug dealings involving youth. The approach is simply the following. Offences under Bill C-7 have penalties attached to them, including imprisonment. Judges have discretion in sentencing and may choose not to impose a prison sentence in any particular case. However, if an offence is accompanied by violence or the threat of violence, or if it takes place in or near the grounds of a school, or if it involves dealing with someone under the age of 18, the court is to consider any of these circumstances an aggravating factor. If it decides in such a case not to impose a prison sentence, then the bill requires that the court give reasons for such a decision.

There are very substantive changes between the current Bill C-7 we are discussing and its original version. I have mentioned the instructions to the court to consider rehabilitation and treatment at sentencing and the reduction in the impact of a conviction for simple possession of cannabis. The following is a representative sample of a dozen or more other changes to the bill.

The previous subsection 3(1), which dealt with controlling unlisted substances that have an effect similar to scheduled drugs, has been completely removed. It has been deleted. It had been objected that the conduct subject to criminal sanction in this subsection had not been specified enough and that herbs or natural extracts might be captured. Removing this subsection should remove all doubts on that score to those who sell herbs and have been concerned about this. It is no longer going to affect an individual even if they thought it might have. Now they need not worry on that count.

Subsection 30(1) has been amended to ensure that inspectors have reasonable grounds to believe that a place is used for an illicit purpose mentioned in the bill before entering the place.

Paragraph 30(1)(c) is amended to exclude the possibility that inspectors can examine a person's medical record and therefore infringe on the confidentiality between physician and patient.

Paragraph 54(1)(h) is amended to eliminate any risk that regulations made under the act could apply to medical practitioners or other professionals who are not targeted. That was a concern from those professionals who under the act were licensed to give prescription drugs. However, the definition of trafficking has been

broadened to include the sale by a licensed practitioner of a prescription to obtain drugs.

Every one of the concerns raised in subcommittee has been carefully examined in the reconstruction of this bill. This is not to say that every concern that was expressed has led to an amendment. Some were felt to be without foundation, such as the fear that the bill would threaten the viability of the existing needle exchange program. It was decided after examination that there was no such threat and there needed to be no amendment.

Other observations or criticisms will be more properly addressed in a general drug policy review rather than in Bill C-7. In fact that was a recommendation from the committee.

It has been suggested by some that this is not a health bill. Many of the issues that have come up deal with justice and enforcement. It should be made abundantly clear that controlled substances are not all bad substances. Many of them indeed are very good when used as prescribed. They are important to the health of the nation. They are major tools in the medical kit. Drugs and drug abuse are basically social and health problems. They find their way, however, into the criminal justice system not because they naturally and necessarily belong there, but because we have yet to devise a better method of control.

Prohibition has had very limited success and very high cost. Many believe that programs to increase awareness, education, and treatment would be more successful for less money and less violence in drug enforcement. In fact the main thrust of Bill C-7 is that it allows for these controlled substances to be used for medical and scientific purposes. We need codeine and morphine and similar drugs to treat patients. Unfortunately, they are also subject to abuse. Therefore, we need to build into the law how we deal with their diversion to non-medical purposes and their abuse potential. That is where most of the justice issues come into play in this bill.

The bill facilitates the placing of safeguards at all levels of production and distribution of high-risk drugs and allows them to be used as prescription drugs. This reduces the risk that drugs produced for legitimate purposes would be diverted into the illegal street market.

Canadians will have access, as before, to physicians, dentists, pharmacists, and other licensed health care providers for whatever drug they need to treat their illnesses. They need not be concerned about that. Bill C-7 is not a catch-all for pharmaceutical preparations. It does not affect antibiotics, for example. It names clearly the drugs it would control, which are generally those used to treat pain and many psychotrophic or mood-modifying drugs.

By including the concepts of treatment and rehabilitation, this bill also acknowledges the important health dimensions of drug abuse. It begins to rebalance that emphasis on substance over user and coercion over persuasion. It is not a new policy and it is not even a big change, but it is an important shift in perspective. It opens the way to alternate approaches and choices in addressing a disease that afflicts hundreds of thousands of Canadians and the social well-being of Canada.

Bill C-7 is meant to control dangerous substances. We want to control these substances because in the wrong hands and used in the wrong way they can cause great harm to Canadians and to the social fabric of this country.

I say this even though I recognize that drug use is not a major concern for Canadians in general. In fact an Environics poll that focused on justice and crime issues last year found that only two per cent of respondents said that illicit drug use personally troubled them far more than other crimes. This was far behind phenomena such as domestic violence, youth gangs, breaking and entering, and crimes against children.

There is another reason to control these drugs, and I believe it is a far more important reason. Many substances we are dealing with here have strong medical components. This bill aims to make them available to health professionals and their patients for legitimate medical purposes. These substances, as I said before, are an essential part of our armaments against human suffering. We need painkillers, tranquillizers, and similar drugs to treat patients suffering from pain, anxiety, stress, depression, and other illnesses that in fact are born of our age of worry and anxiety. These are substances for medical use.

Because Bill C-7 sharpens the tools we use to control the production and distribution of high-risk preparations that can be made available safely for prescription drugs does not mean that we are condemning those drugs. Patients will continue to have access to prescriptions through their doctors and pharmacists. Patients will always have what they need to treat illness and the medical records of patients will not be violated.

Health Canada's goals and priorities have repeatedly found support from the Canadian public, who rate the performance of health care in the current system at the very top of government activities. This is from Ekos Research.

Side by side with medicare on Health Canada's priority list is the protection against risks to Canadians' health. Therefore, illegally obtained and unsafe drugs are among those risks. Drug dependence is not only a criminal issue, it is very much a health and social issue. With some of these amendments we have tried to bring a positive approach to treatment programs for those who are afflicted by drug addictions. We support the help and appropriate treatment

for those who want to get back their health and resume a normal life. We will continue to authorize methadone treatment for those who have a drug dependence. Methadone, as members will know, is a controlled substance that assists many opiate users to re-establish a constructive life. I want to assure the House that is not changing.

The department is also responsible for the national program to reduce the spread of HIV and AIDS. We will not be affecting the needle exchange programs, which in many communities have had massive positive results and have been so successful in curbing the spread of HIV among intravenous drug users. Medical devices such as needles were deliberately excluded from criminal sanctions in Bill C-7. So this effective public health program in fact will continue its good work.

The bill protects the rational use of some controlled substances as medicines while acting against the illicit distribution of these same substances. It recognizes that controlled drugs are indispensable and that their availability should not be restricted or compromised. It promotes the judicious use of medications by indicating ways in which controlled drugs can be handled, distributed, and used. These substances are included in the legislation, as I said, to protect the health and safety of the public.

For example, Bill C-7 makes it possible for cancer patients and those who are terminally ill to obtain pain relief from prescribed medications such as morphine. In a hospital setting or for out-patients under strict medical supervision, even heroin is available for the treatment of pain and suffering. This legislation ensures that cocaine can be safely used in examination and in surgical procedures. Other medications aimed at treating less severe but still incapacitating conditions such as migraines are contained in the schedule of substances we are dealing with here. These will continue to be made accessible under this bill.

Some of these drugs are also used on the street and therefore are subject to trafficking. While these substances all have the opportunity to create good and help patients who are ill, they have a strong potential for abuse. It is not surprising that the enforcement aspect of Bill C-7 has therefore attracted attention. But we must not forget that access to these substances must be preserved for the benefit of all those who are afflicted, which may include a majority of Canadians at some time in their lives. These substances are powerful. They have the power to do good, but also the power to do harm. If a drug is prescribed by a physician and if you use it more than is prescribed by a physician, the addictive properties of these drugs could be forgotten. We do not want that harm to occur to patients.

As legislators, our task is to find a balance that will maximize good and minimize harm. I believe we have struck the appropriate balance in this legislation. I urge hon. members of the House to support it, as I will.

Controlled Drugs And Substances Act October 30th, 1995

Mr. Speaker, I rise to speak to the third party amendment to clause 60 of Bill C-7.

I agree with the hon. member the bill is a complex and at times controversial bill. All parties were eventually unanimous in the substantive changes and amendments to the bill that improve the bill a great deal.

However I speak to the specific amendment of the hon. member to clause 60 that would read:

"portion of an item, after the governor in council has consulted with those persons who will be directly affected by the amendment".

The purpose of the amendment is to get the governor in council to consult with those who would be directly affected by a change in schedule made by the governor in council.

There is already in place a democratic process within the machinery of government that answers the particular concern the hon. member for Macleod brought forward. Government is required to consult with those who will be affected by the proposal and the public at large before making any changes.

The only exception to this requirement is where public safety is concerned and where on an urgent and emergency basis one needs to make a change to the schedule within 24 hours. Even then there

is a process wherein an emergency scheduling provision in the interests of safety of the public would allow it to happen.

Turning to the broader process the member is speaking about, the process provides for the machinery of government. Government is required to prepublish for a minimum period of 30 days in The Canada Gazette , part I, any proposal to change scheduling. The prepublication period may vary, depending on the nature of the proposal.

For example, if the proposal was to have international implications and would therefore have impact on GATT, there is an agreement in GATT that there would be a minimum of 75 days of prepublication to allow other countries to respond.

Not only would interested parties respond if this were done a national level. Any citizen at all could provide comments or suggestions about the content of the proposal and about their concerns on the proposal. Then the government is obliged to report to the governor in council on those consultations, the feedback or input from parties directly affected, from concerned citizens or from the public at large. Also it is to report on the proposed remedies to be brought forth to address concerns. If this amendment represents a major shift in the original proposal, and if the concerned parties that have had input want another shift, there is a requirement to prepublish once again to discuss the new shift.

All the bells, whistles and hoops have been jumped through in the process already so I fail to see what the hon. member's amendment would do to improve the process in any way, shape or form. It is already public. It is already open to disclosure. If disclosure requires change there is a requirement for further disclosure and for a further period of 30 days to discuss it. As I said before, internationally there is a requirement to prepublish for 75 days.

There is a fail safe mechanism already there to answer the hon. member's concerns about the issue.

Canada Health Act October 30th, 1995

Mr. Speaker, I rise to speak on Private Members' Bill C-284, an act to amend the Canada Health Act.

Let me say at the outset that I am extremely sympathetic and supportive of the plight and concerns of emergency response workers. Their devotion to preserving and protecting the lives of others often puts them unwittingly at risk of injury or exposure to disease. They are not aware of what the patient is carrying.

I understand and support the motive behind Bill C-284. Unfortunately, the Canada Health Act is the wrong instrument. The amendment is not within the scope of the act. The Canada Health Act sets out the broad principles under which the provinces are expected to operate medicare. An amendment dealing with the disclosure of infectious diseases is inconsistent with this purpose.

While the protection of health care workers from contagious diseases is an extremely worthwhile public health objective, the Canada Health Act is not the proper vehicle by which to achieve this. Let me explain.

Our health care insurance system is composed of 12 interlocking plans which are managed at the provincial and territorial levels. The federal health insurance legislation, which is what the Canada Health Act of 1984 is, establishes the criteria provincial plans must meet in order to qualify for a full share of federal health care transfers. Federal transfer payments may be reduced or withheld if a province contravenes the conditions of the act.

I will discuss these criteria, the cornerstones of Canada's health care system.

There is accessibility, which means access to medically required services regardless of ability to pay. That translates into no charges at point of service. There is comprehensiveness, which means a comprehensive range of medically required services. Universality means the coverage of all provincial residents must be given equally regardless of pre-existing conditions or diseases. Portability ensures that benefits go from province to province and abroad. Finally, public administration of medicare means that the plan must operate on a non-profit basis.

In addition to those five principles, the Canada Health Act requires that provinces provide medicare information to the federal minister when she needs it. In order to qualify for federal cash contributions, provinces also need to give recognition to the fact that the federal government does transfer payments.

The Canada Health Act also discourages extra billing or user fees. If this is broken, there will be automatic dollar for dollar reductions or withholdings of federal cash contributions to that province or territory. The threat that user charges and extra billing would erode accessibility to medicare was a major reason for the development of the Canada Health Act in the first place. It was enacted to protect those five fundamental principles of medicare I just spoke about. Nearly all provinces have committed themselves to upholding these principles even while making needed reforms to the system.

Canadians support the five principles and feel that medicare is a defining Canadian value. Results of a recent poll indicate that support for these national principles is higher than ever.

The Canada Health Act which defines medicare is close to the hearts of Canadians. It is something too risky to tamper with. The amendments to change the Canada Health Act as proposed in Bill C-284 by my hon. colleague cannot be supported.

The amendments ask that the name and nature of an infectious or contagious disease be disclosed to emergency response workers who may have been unknowingly exposed to that disease. While I support this objective, the amendments themselves affect the definition of hospital services. This will change the Canada Health Act criteria which deal only with the principles and funding of medicare. Rules are are set out concerning the non-compliance with the Canada Health Act and are part of the act.

In short, Bill C-284 asks that provincial and territorial plans impose a responsibility on hospitals to disclose to emergency response employees whether a patient to whom they are providing service has an infectious or contagious disease which is fine. However, it seeks to do this by making it a criteria of the Canada Health Act.

The disclosure of infectious or contagious diseases is a public health issue. It is not of the same nature as the principles and funding issues in the Canada Health Act. The protection of emergency response personnel is not even close to the purpose of the Canada Health Act.

Moreover, the act deals with the organization and delivery of health care services at the provincial and territorial levels and not with the regulation of internal operations of hospitals which falls under provincial and territorial jurisdiction. It would be intrusive to ask the federal government to impose on or intrude into the federal-provincial primary responsibility for hospital management which is a constitutionally protected right.

Moreover, Bill C-284 raises issues with regard to civil laws and rights and privacy laws in the provinces and territories. The federal government cannot really interfere in these issues.

What I am trying to say is that worthwhile though the member's intent may be, the Canada Health Act is not the proper place to regulate such matters which constitutionally fall under provincial jurisdiction and should be better handled at that level. The federal government cannot dictate to a province or territory how to run its health care plan, much less tell it how to run institutions. All it can do under the Canada Health Act is to place conditions on transfer payments to the provinces and territories.

At a meeting of health ministers in Victoria recently, provincial and territorial ministers reaffirmed their support for the principles of the act and agree to continue to collaborate in interpreting and applying its provisions. Provincial and territorial ministers agreed with the federal Minister of Health to work together to develop a vision for the future of medicare.

Contrary to the misunderstanding of certain parties, the Canada Health Act is not an impediment to the management changes which are needed to meet medicare's challenges. In fact, the flexibility inherent in the act has always been one of its strengths.

Since the enactment of the act in 1984, the federal government has attempted to work with the provinces in order to make the act a viable piece of legislation. The federal government recognizes that provinces and territories have primary responsibility for the management, organization and the delivery of health care services, including institutions and health care providers. Sufficient flexibility to operate and administer their health care insurance plans is obviously necessary if they are to meet the regional and local needs and conditions.

At the August conference, provincial premiers and territorial leaders were unanimous in their support of the publicly funded national health care system and reaffirmed their commitment to the principles of the Canada Health Act. It would be dangerous therefore, to tamper with those principles when they have received such wholehearted support. If we want medicare to survive, we must be vigilant against seemingly innocuous tampering as against more blatant threats such as user charges which as we know arise now and then.

I come back to the point that while the protection of health care workers is a serious concern and one which I share with the hon. member, the Canada Health Act is not the vehicle with which to address it. At the same time, the department has been involved with the prevention of infectious diseases and the protection of emergency response personnel for a very long time and is continuing to work with them on issues of concern. Let me give a few examples of our recent achievements in this area.

In 1994 a national symposium on risk and prevention of infectious diseases for emergency response personnel was held to explore the same question the member is talking about and to look at implementing where possible preventive and protective actions for those workers.

In June of this year a consensus conference was held with the objective of establishing guidelines the provinces and territories could use to develop and implement an infectious disease notification protocol for emergency responders. These guidelines are good examples of how the provinces and territories look to the federal government to provide a leadership and co-ordinating role in discussing issues related to health protection.

I have confidence in the ability of emergency response workers as the ones who are best qualified to seek solutions in conjunction with their provincial and territorial governments, health professionals and experts in infectious diseases. They have our support.

The Canada Health Act which protects our universal and comprehensive health care system agrees with that commitment. However, facing the challenges and finding solutions to problems which arise over the years took commitment as well and the commitment is still there today.

Today we can look back with pride on our past accomplishments, but we cannot be satisfied to rest on our laurels. The systems and the federal provincial relationships face many challenges and the issue raised by Bill C-284 is such a challenge. To this end, we as a federal Ministry of Health have taken the appropriate steps to support the concerns and efforts of the emergency response workers. At the same time the federal government cannot support an amendment which has no place in the Canada Health Act.

I encourage all hon. members to participate in the discussion of this issue with emergency response workers at the constituency level and to take appropriate steps to assist them in this important and worthy objective.

Quebec Referendum October 26th, 1995

Mr. Speaker, last night, two very important messages were delivered to the people of Canada. On the one hand, they heard the Prime Minister of Canada calmly but seriously describe the country's situation as the referendum date approaches and what major impact a Yes victory would have.

On the other hand, they saw the separatist leader of the Bloc Quebecois revile another Quebecer, one who stands up for a strong Quebec within a united Canada. The Prime Minister talked about understanding, openness and positive changes, while all his opponent talked about was resentment, bitterness and revenge.

On October 30, Quebecers will dismiss this message of destruction and vote No.

Grandparents Day October 25th, 1995

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to support the motion of my colleague, the hon. member for Don Valley North, to designate the second Sunday in September grandparents day.

I have spoken out on the significance of grandparents in the House on a number of occasions. Grandparents play an irreplaceable role in the life of Canadian families. They form a stable link in a rapidly changing world. Where there is fragmentation because of divorce or separation they bring continuity. Today many families are headed by single parents and where there are two parents they are often found both working outside the home.

The significance and value of grandparents have increased beyond belief. I do not hold grandparents to be glorified babysitters but rather as parents' surrogates who bring love, a continuance of generational values and a sense of the child's worth to the integrity of the family.

I speak from personal knowledge and with emotion about the importance of grandparents because I was brought up by a grandparent. My parents both worked outside the home for most of my life with them. They needed to for economic reasons. It was my grandmother who nurtured me, gave me a sense of worth and moulded in many ways the course my life was to take.

My grandmother was my role model, my mentor and my confidant. As a strong feminist woman long before the term was invented, she taught me to be bold and confident, to stand up for my beliefs, to change things when I did not like them, to be an active participant in changing my society and my world.

Mr. Speaker, I would be so bold as to say I stand before you today because of my grandmother. Yet I have never been able to

celebrate her contribution to my life. We all celebrate Mother's Day, Father's Day, Remembrance Day. We have dedicated weeks to promote breast cancer awareness, AIDS, violence against women, but we have never celebrated the worth of our grandparents to the family, to society and to future generations.

Grandparents have enriched our lives by their presence. They represent the past, our history to us in their stories, in their lifestyles and in their values. Through them we gain a sense of the continuity of humankind and through us they live forever.

I once remarked that if grandparents did not exist in nature we would have invented them because they are the embodiment of the concept of family. Because of the reverence and love I feel for my grandmother I cannot wait to be a grandparent so I can completely emulate her as my role model. Unfortunately my sons do not seem willing to comply at this time.

You do not need children of your own to be a grandparent. In British Columbia there is a volunteer grandparent's association whose members adopt, figuratively speaking, children who are not fortunate enough to know or who do not have a biological grandparent close at hand. As we all know, in this vast land of ours families can live far away from each other and many families do not have an extended family or a grandparent close by. My children did not. These volunteer grandparents bridge that gap and bring to hundreds of B.C. children the warmth and experience of having a grandparent.

Grandparents bring a sense of trust. They help us to feel safe because no matter what happens they are our refuge against often cranky parents.

In many cultures grandparents are historians. In others they are the heads of households. They bring wisdom and warmth, joy and stability, and the list of their worth goes on and on.

I will finish today by quoting the words of one young constituent who has expressed so simply the importance of her grandmother:

The first day I was brought into this world I met my grandmother. I have come to know her very well. These past 17 years she has been there for me almost as much as my parents. My grandmother is a very special part of my life. She was the one who took care of me when I was sick or cheered me up when I was down. I get to see her almost once a week.

My grandmother is the most interesting lady I know. She is an artist, a chef and a seamstress. This lady has a good eye for fashion and style and she always knows just what to buy me. I heard all grandmothers are good cooks but my grandmother is one of the finest. She supplies the birthday dinners and cakes for the whole family. No matter how much her grandchildren whine and complain she always keeps her cool and has great patience with us all. I am extremely lucky to have such a wonderful grandmother. Not everyone is so fortunate.

She is the type of lady who is always doing special things for you and is always trying to please. My grandmother means the world to me. I hope she remains with me for many years to come.

By passing this bill we will make that wish come true.

British Columbia Treaty Commission October 20th, 1995

Mr. Speaker, the last speaker was concerned about the word ignorance. I would not use that word but would use the term misunderstanding and misinformation.

I have heard members of the third party mention a few things which I perceive to be a complete misunderstanding of what this commission is being set up to do. The question was asked about whether the commission had any role to play in making sure that the parties were ready to negotiate. There was no understanding that that was a role.

I will read very quickly the role of the commission: "The duties of the commission are assessing the readiness of the parties, Canada, B.C. and First Nations, to negotiate". A clearly stated duty is to encourage timely negotiations. Therefore, with respect to the concern over stalling, that is something the commission is set up to ensure does not happen.

Another comment from members of the third party was that everything was being done in secret, nothing was being done in the open. The role of the commission is to prepare and maintain a public record of the status of negotiations.

I have another comment with regard to constant references to being Canadian together rather than apart because of race. This is a clear denial of the cultural heritage of people who do not belong to a majority group.

One of the things I clearly saw as a physician when we discussed aboriginal health issues was that the aboriginal people had a great deal of health problems. This was because their culture had been denied for so long. The lack of spirituality which is an inherent part of their culture has led to loss of self-esteem and hopelessness. This has led to the large number of suicides and abuse we now see in the aboriginal community which have clearly been traced back to loss of cultural identity. These things are important to a people. It does not mean that people are different because they are given their cultural heritage. Cultural heritage is inherently what people are; it is what makes them the way they are.

I am really concerned about those statements. They show a lack of understanding of basic human dignity and human rights.

British Columbia Treaty Commission Act October 20th, 1995

Mr. Speaker, I really thought I had answered that question. However it is obvious I have to repeat it so it is understood.

Getting three groups together to come to an agreement to write a piece of legislation takes time and agreement on every single part of the legislation before it can be brought to the table. This is a very technical and difficult process. We need to ensure when the legislation is done and on the table that everyone can agree to sign and can believe and trust it. It takes time to work that ground to ensure there is trust and there is agreement on the process.

British Columbia Treaty Commission Act October 20th, 1995

The hon. member claimed that she understands negotiations. I would think the member would know that setting up the intent in an opening position is not what one ends up deciding on. Realistic agreements do not come until the process has taken place, until people have come to the table and have talked. Then they come with a settlement.

I do not think the hon. member understands negotiations at all.

British Columbia Treaty Commission Act October 20th, 1995

Mr. Speaker, obviously three parties participate in the process: the Government of British Columbia, the Government of Canada and the summit. These three parties have to agree on what the framework will be to set up the whole treaty organization process. That takes a long time.

If the hon. member knows anything about negotiations, and she just said she did, you would understand also because you talked about-

British Columbia Treaty Commission Act October 20th, 1995

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise in my place today to join the debate on second reading of Bill C-107. The Government of Canada has maintained that providing justice and equity for aboriginal peoples requires two ingredients, self-government and the process of making modern day treaties through comprehensive claims.

Canadians have been wrestling with these issues for years. The Reform Party, for its part, has used the self-government issue to fan the flames of fear and apprehension during the debates over the Charlottetown accord and now it continues to stir up controversy in British Columbia through its misrepresentation of the treaty process.

I have heard hon. members opposite make a great deal of the media reports of the total First Nations' claims adding up to 110 per cent of the province. That total should not surprise us. Why should not the claims overlap one another? The First Nations have shared the land and its resources for centuries. They have migrated and tapped the resources of different locales at different times.

They have been asked as part of the treaty making process to describe the geographic area of the First Nations' traditional territory in British Columbia. They provided a map of the traditional areas of their ancestors which depicts a territory that a nation occupied historically. These maps are used to provide negotiators with a general idea of what area of land is under question, which is part of stage one of the process, the statement of intent.

A statement of intent is not a settlement. A claim is not a treaty. A treaty is a result of negotiations and the negotiations are just beginning. The claims are but the start of the bargaining position. No first nation would expect to receive the entire region described in its statement of intent. The First Nations do not expect fee simple title to the entire province.

When two First Nations have overlapping traditional claims they will settle the matter as the negotiations proceed. The federal and provincial governments do not participate in negotiating an overlapping settlement. However, several of the members across the floor, members who ought to know better, have been using the claims to instil fear among British Columbians.

They infer that these opening positions will lead to lost property for third parties across the province. They ask: "What will become of your cottages? What will happen to the jobs in the mining and forestry sectors? What will happen to the fisheries?" They raise these fears without adding that the treaty process provides for all sectors of British Columbia from cottage owners to the broad spectrum of industries to have a voice in the process.

They neglect to tell the people at the town hall meetings and on the radio talk shows that the Government of Canada consults with a treaty negotiations advisory committee representing many of their interests. They do not tell people that no negotiation can proceed until a regional advisory committee has been created to provide the views of British Columbians from that particular part of the province who are not at the negotiating table. They do not say any of these things.

This pattern of misinformation and fear mongering is typical of the tactics some members on the other side of the House have used to score cheap political points. They have often criticized the government for its dedication to the inherent right of self-government as a cornerstone of the Government of Canada's aboriginal policy.

We have said since the beginning, since the red book that provided our election platform, that we believe the inherent right to self-government to be an existing right within Canada's Constitution.

Hon. members of the third party have often made the case that no one has defined what self-government means. The argument that self-government has not been defined has been erected as an obstacle to prevent justice from getting through to the aboriginal communities across Canada. That argument speaks to the kind of meanspirited and narrow minded approach that has thwarted efforts to bring justice to aboriginal issues for years. It speaks for the tyranny of the status quo. It speaks for the preservation of the paternalism of the Indian Act.

Is that what Reform members want to uphold? Do they really want to impede progress, to impede righting past wrongs, to impede certainty, to impede economic stability, to impede job creation?

We want to make progress. One way we are doing it is by acknowledging that the inherent right to self-government is an existing right. We are now negotiating with First Nations on how that right is to be implemented.

No one wants to return to the constitutional debates to implement self-government. Self-government arrangements can be negotiated with individual communities based upon local culture, traditions and needs. That is exactly what we have been doing. That is how we are going about the process in British Columbia.

I remind the House, especially members of the third party who seem to specialize in misinformation and misunderstanding, of the

six stages that a claim must go through before a treaty comes into effect. Hon. members will observe that it is a very thorough process.

In the first step a first nation files a statement of intent with the B.C. Treaty Commission. The commission makes sure that the statement is complete and forwards it to the federal and provincial governments. It is at this stage that the First Nations describe the geographic area in British Columbia that they consider to be their traditional territory. Forty-seven statements of intent have been filed. They represent over 70 per cent of the aboriginal people of British Columbia.

The second stage is the commission convenes a meeting to prepare for negotiations. All three parties exchange information, consider the criteria, discuss the research they will do to prepare for negotiations and identify issues of concern. Each party appoints a negotiator with a clear mandate. Each party establishes a ratification procedure and the parties agree upon the substantive and procedural matters that will be negotiated.

This is the stage at which the Canadian and British Columbia governments establish their own mechanisms for consultation with non-aboriginal interests. One of the requirements the B.C. Treaty Commission imposes on the two governments is the establishment of a regional consultative mechanism to represent third party interests. It imposes that.

When a commission determines that all three parties have met the criteria for readiness it confirms that they can proceed to stage three. This is where all three parties negotiate a framework agreement, a negotiated agenda, and identify the issues to be negotiated, the goals of the negotiation process, special procedural arrangements and a timetable for negotiations. So far four framework agreements have been signed and another three initialled by negotiators.

It is in the fourth stage of the treaty process that the parties negotiate an agreement in principle. These are the substantive negotiations. The parties examine the framework in detail.

Then the fifth stage is that the principals negotiate to finalize the treaty and remaining technical and legal issues are then resolved at this stage.

The sixth and final stage is the implementation of the treaty. Long term implementation plans need to be tailored to specific agreements.

All commissioners have agreed that significant progress has been made in the treaty process. The BCTC process is working. The process is fair. It is equitable and it is open. No one denies the negotiations ahead will be tough. Negotiations are tough. All

negotiations are tough. There are some very complex issues that must be brought to the table.

It is time we settled these land claims so that all British Columbians, aboriginals and non-aboriginals, can get on with the job of building a prosperous society in our province, a society where all groups can enjoy the wealth, the resources that the province has to offer. This will benefit all British Columbians and all Canadians.

I hope I have said it slowly enough so that the third party across the House can understand. It is time.