It sounds like his imaginary friend.
House of Commons photoWon his last election, in 2008, with 64% of the vote.
Committee Of The Whole October 29th, 1996
It sounds like his imaginary friend.
Committee Of The Whole October 29th, 1996
Mr. Speaker, my point of order is the same. My understanding was that the hon. member for North Vancouver still had some time remaining on questions and comments.
Committee Of The Whole October 28th, 1996
Mr. Speaker, during the presentation of my hon. colleague from Swift Current-Maple Creek-Assiniboia, the hon. minister made an intervention which called for the extension of this debate at the next sitting of the House. This intervention is quite interesting in that there are no Liberal members presently debating the issue.
It is interesting because we on this side of the House view this as a matter of principle, that the Liberal government would bring forward an appointment at this time after three years in office without even paying any attention to its own promise. Then it turns around and tries to convince the Canadian electorate that it has done everything humanly possible to live up to the expectations of the Canadian public, the expectations that the Canadian public had following the Liberal government's election in October 1993.
It is very disturbing to me that the Liberals consider this issue to have no importance, that they will not even rise in this place to debate this issue with Reformers. It is very disturbing. One of my hon. colleagues points out, probably correctly, that it is simply because there are no arguments. There is nothing they can say to defend their position which runs so contrary to their own red book promise.
My hon. colleague put forward as an alternative a proposal that should our amendment to this motion for an appointment to the deputy chair's position be defeated, as I am quite sure it will be, perhaps the government would look beyond the partisanship of appointing someone from the official opposition, from the Bloc Quebecois, or from the Reform Party of Canada, and look at the option of appointing one of the independent members.
It is certainly a very generous gesture on the part of my colleague to call for that consideration. However would the member consider the suggestion, in light of what the hon. member for Calgary Centre suggested earlier, that if our amendment were to fail, the government's first option be to have an open, honest and clear election for that position with the only candidates coming from the opposition ranks? Of course that would include the independents as well. They could submit names and have an election for that position rather than an appointment. Would he consider that as the first option, with a fall back position of the government appointing someone from the ranks of the independents?
Committee Of The Whole October 28th, 1996
Madam Speaker, I know time is short for questions and comments but I have a question for the hon. member.
Earlier the hon. member for Waterloo accused Reformers of supporting the Bloc Quebecois and I endeavoured to point out that the Liberals have been supportive of the separatists over the past three years in this place. We can clearly show that on a number of fronts.
Could the member elaborate further on his comment that in the interests of non-partisanship he is prepared to support a member from the Bloc Quebecois over a Liberal to the position of deputy chair? The member for Calgary Centre suggested that there be a full election. He suggested that there be one name put forward by the Bloc, one name put forward by the Reform Party and that the House be allowed to decide who the new deputy chair would be.
Committee Of The Whole October 28th, 1996
Madam Speaker, I found my hon. colleague's comments very enlightening; suggestions for the Liberal government that make a lot of sense.
The Minister of National Defence is agreeing with me that his comments made a lot of good sense. I am sure he is referring specifically to the comments made about himself. I wonder if he would comment further on the intervention that was made earlier today on this very important subject. The debate we are having, as impromptu as it is, cuts to the very essence of why we are in this place.
If we cannot have an independent Chair in this place it begs the question why are we here. What is the purpose if we cannot assure that it is a fair and honest debate and we have Chairs with integrity? Certainly that has been the case in the past, we expect that in the future and we do not question that with regard to the hon. member for Kingston and the Islands.
The hon. member for Calgary Centre put forward a very strong case that perhaps the hon. member for Kingston and the Islands should review his decision to let his name stand for this position in light of being a co-signer and co-author of this report.
As a citizen of this country I have seen too often in the past MPs of the old traditional parties in this country, the Liberal Party of Canada, the Progressive Conservatives and the New Democrats, try as hard as they can to bring about systemic, substantive change to the system of government in Canada. We are all aware of them. What we see time and time again is that at some point when their party becomes government those reforms fall by the wayside. They become mere voices in the wilderness crying out for change. Time and time again substantive change simply does not happen.
Contrary to what the hon. member for Fundy-Royal said earlier when he chastised our whip for wasting the time of the House, for wasting taxpayer money, if the government would have elected to consult with opposition members prior to springing this motion on us we would not be in this debate today. It is the government that decided to foist this on us rather than consulting the opposition members. This runs contrary to red book promises of more consultation between all parties in the House of Commons.
Would the hon. member for Calgary Centre take a moment to give us his opinion on whether this is truly a waste of money to be debating this issue in the House today? I feel so strongly about this as a matter of principle. I do not see that we are wasting time. If we cannot debate this type of issue in this place, then anything else we debate is really pointless.
Committee Of The Whole October 28th, 1996
Madam Speaker, for the hon. member to suggest that the Reform Party is aiding and abetting the separatists in the House is absolutely ridiculous.
Surely to goodness after three years Canadians understand which party it is in this place that is assisting the separatists, the Bloc Quebecois, to break up the country. It is certainly not the Reform Party of Canada. It is the Liberal Party of Canada.
Every time we turn around in the House, it is supporting the motions of the Bloc. It allows the Bloc to be not only the official opposition-it supports its cause that way-but on every single standing committee in this place, including the standing committee on national defence of Canada.
The Liberals support the separatists to be the alternate chair positions on committees. It is absolutely astounding that the member for Waterloo would stand up and accuse us of aiding and abetting the separatists. It is his party that continues to do this on an ongoing basis day after day.
Committee Of The Whole October 28th, 1996
Madam Speaker, I noted that the hon. member for Waterloo declined to answer the question from my colleague from Macleod. He did not make any attempt to actually answer the question, which does not surprise me.
This member referred several times to remarks about intellectual honesty in referring to the Reform Party of Canada. Somehow he feels that because we put forward the name of one of our members to occupy the position it means that we are dishonest and that we should put forward a name of a member from the Bloc Quebecois.
If he had taken the opportunity to actually read the appendix to his own Liberal red book at some time over the last four years, he would have found that this proposal put forward by four members of the Liberal caucus, one of whom is the hon. member for Kingston and the Islands, states: "In order to enhance the independence of the Chair and in an effort to reduce the level of partisanship, when the Speaker is from the government party two of the junior chair officers should be from the opposition so that the four presiding officer positions are shared equally by government and opposition". That is the promise, the recommendation, the proposal.
We note that it does not say official opposition. It says opposition. The last time I checked we remain an opposition party, perhaps for another year. However, at the whim of the Prime Minister we will be the government.
The hon. member also said that he was appalled that the Reform Party said it was going to do things differently when it ran for Parliament. He obviously does not feel that opting out of the MP pension plan is different. I would ask the hon. member for Waterloo if he opted out of the pension plan. That is where he could have shown some leadership to his constituents of Waterloo on an important issue. However, he has declined to do so.
We could go on like this all evening. I would argue quite strongly that we have kept our commitment and we are doing things differently. One thing we are doing differently is standing on principle, which is something unknown to Liberal members of the House.
Committee Of The Whole October 28th, 1996
My hon. colleague referred to the actual committee report.
The hon. member is insistent on heckling still. We are going to try to figure out at some point if she actually does know what is contained in the red book which she ran on but perhaps that will have to be on another day.
At this point it is very clear from the intervention made by my hon. colleague what we were referring to. It actually is a promise, much to the consternation of Liberal members, another broken promise.
I also refer to a comment made by the hon. member for Mississauga South. The only defence he could come up with for this appointment was that somehow the Liberal members who put forward the report that suggested the two deputy speaker positions should be from the opposition, that somehow that was done before the election. There were such astounding results in the election with the election of Bloc Quebecois members as well as Reform Party of Canada members that somehow it negates the commitment made in the red book to have the two deputy speaker positions actually filled from the opposition. He was looking for some little avenue that he could use to get out of the commitment made in the red book.
I wonder if my hon. colleague would like to comment on that. The only excuse the government can use is so pathetically weak: that we simply cannot allow a separatist member to be a deputy speaker. It is pretty pathetic to have to use that as an excuse for breaking a promise.
Committee Of The Whole October 28th, 1996
Mr. Speaker, I listened to my hon. colleague's intervention and he certainly put his points across in a very clear manner. My comments deal with some comments that were made during this debate.
Earlier the hon. member for Etobicoke-Lakeshore was heckling our hon. whip when he was trying to speak. She was asking which page of the red book we were referring to. Obviously for someone who ran on that red book and the promises contained therein, I would have expected that she would have known that we were actually referring to an appendix to the red book, a report that was appended to the red book.
Committee Of The Whole October 28th, 1996
Squeezed.