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Crucial Fact

  • His favourite word was money.

Last in Parliament March 2011, as Liberal MP for Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca (B.C.)

Won his last election, in 2008, with 34% of the vote.

Statements in the House

Workplace Safety April 23rd, 1999

Madam Speaker, it is a pleasure today to speak to Motion No. 455. The potential exists in terms of corporate responsibility.

One of the most dramatic examples of negligence on the part of corporate Canada was the 1992 Westray explosion which killed 26 miners. It was a disaster that did not need to happen, but it did. My hon. colleague from the Conservative Party should be commended for putting this motion forward.

Motion No. 455 deals with some very hard questions. It states very clearly that corporate executives cannot hide behind their titles when they engage in behaviour that has proven to be negligent or harmful to the people working under them.

We must also ensure that Motion No. 455 is not used as a cudgel to slam on the head of the executive world when it is not negligent and not responsible. In other words, we cannot use it as an action to make the corporate world responsible for things when it is not. We want to ensure that individuals, inside and outside corporate Canada, are dealt with equally and fairly under the law. Executives will not be able to hide behind their job titles in the commission of their duties.

We are also looking at a larger paradigm shift. We should look at the issue of corporate responsibility and the opportunities that exist. Historically, we have not examined the enormous opportunities the corporate world has for social good.

Some companies have done an incredible job, such as Ben & Jerry's in the United States. It is a great giver and has an enormous amount of social concern and responsibility. Through its company, it has managed to improve the health and welfare of those people who are less privileged than most of us. There are many examples of companies in Canada that have used their powers as corporations to help individuals in our country.

Corporate Canada has two roles: to make a profit, which is extremely important, and to provide jobs and such that makes our country run. Profit is a good thing but a balance has to be struck between making a profit and the cost that is sometimes incurred by the behaviour of those companies.

We have not looked at the balance between making a profit and ensuring that a company is ethical and is not engaging in activities which could hurt the collective good and the people. We must have a balance between making a profit and the actions of the company and the costs.

Southwest Airlines in the United States is thriving and making a huge profit, but it is also very socially responsible. It treats its employees fairly and does an incredible social job within its region. This company has managed to strike the balance between profit making and corporate responsibility.

Rather than sacrificing profits, Southwest Airlines is one of the healthiest airlines in the United States. It is healthy because it managed to marry corporate responsibility with profit and managed to ensure that its employees bought into this exciting paradigm shift.

Profit sharing on the part of the employees and the owners is a very good thing. It actually ensures that their employees will derive benefits from their actions. This tends to make employees work harder and more effectively, which would benefit the company.

This change or paradigm shift in our thinking of corporate responsibility does need to be applied just to the private sector. It can be applied to government. Why not have public service employees deriving financial benefits from doing their jobs. If a department was able to meet or cut its budget then a percentage of that could be shared by the employees of that department. Right now we do not have that.

Today, when a government department sees it is going to have a surplus at the end of the year, it tries to spend the surplus so it will not have its budget cut in the next year. Why not give a percentage of that savings to the people who have, through their actions of wise spending and through their responsible actions as employees, managed to save money for the taxpayer. The taxpayer would still derive the benefit because their money would not have been wasted. The people who made sure that they spent wisely would also derive a financial benefit. It is a win-win situation. It would also ensure that the public sector would be working more effectively, which we would all applaud.

The issue of corporate responsibility can also be applied to the actions of corporations internationally. Actions by corporations have destroyed environments and decimated social structures abroad. We mentioned the issue of the Sydney tar ponds where actions by companies clearly poisoned the surrounding environment. We cannot allow this to happen.

Motion No. 455 brings up a very exciting point about making those people who engage in that type of behaviour responsible. It also provides a window for the other side of the coin which is to use the private sector for the public good. The beauty of Motion No. 455 is that it deals with both sides.

The explicit part of Motion No. 455 is a punitive one which must be done and should be looked at least. We believe in studying this to ensure that companies cannot compromise the health and welfare of their employees and other people. Also there lies an opportunity to do public good.

Some companies that work abroad work in very impoverished lands. We must also consider those companies that work in impoverished lands or in countries where a despot is abusing the people, such as what occurred in Nigeria in the past. Canadian companies working in those areas should have an obligation to invest part of their profits into social programs for the people, basic programs such as health and education. Companies must also ensure that their employees are paid fairly, not on a Canadian wage basis, but in terms of the country in which they are operating.

That is a very powerful thing for the surrounding people in that country. Canadian companies working abroad can be used as a powerful tool for ensuring social stability and improving the social structures within countries which in many cases are some of the most impoverished lands in the world.

I have to wrap up so I will summarize by saying that Motion No. 455 has some excellent points. I commend the member from the Conservative Party for putting it forward. We need to study this to ensure that those in corporate Canada do not hide behind their titles and abuse the people. The other side is to use this as a window for corporate Canada to engage in public good not only within our country but also abroad.

Health April 23rd, 1999

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Minister of Health said that he would wait until the end of the year before he responded to the health committee's report on organ transplantation. If he waits until the end of the year, 100 Canadians will be dead.

Will the minister show leadership and implement the constructive suggestions in the report within the next three months, before these people die?

Health April 22nd, 1999

Mr. Speaker, the hon. Minister of Health mentioned that he would respond to the committee's report by the end of this year.

Today there is a little boy waiting in the intensive care unit in Toronto on death's doorstep. His name is Robbie Thompson and he needs a new heart.

Will the Minister of Health respond to the committee report sooner? What is his position on the creation of a national registry of intended organ donors and potential organ recipients?

Criminal Code April 20th, 1999

Mr. Speaker, I will briefly answer three questions. The first question concerns prevention. We can use existing resources to engage in prevention. There is a smattering of organizations across the country which are engaging in prevention. If the minister would ask her provincial counterparts to come to the table, tell her what is working and what is not, toss out what is not working and keep what is, that would force the provinces to rationalize their programs.

As the member mentioned, it costs $95,000 a year for a youth to be incarcerated and $60,000 for an adult.

On the issue of gun control, the Reform Party is firmly in favour of good gun control laws. We are in favour of the firearms acquisition certificate. We are in favour of having checks on people. We are in favour of having a delay period. We are in favour of a course, which gun lobby groups are in favour of.

What we are not in favour of is gun control legislation that will cost money and not have an effect. On that point, it is the gun registry that will do just that.

We have to be very careful that if we are going to put money into a program we ensure that the money we are putting in, with the limited resources we have, will have more effect than where we are taking it from. It is called economic cost. If we are going to put money into gun registration, we had better be certain that the registry is going to make our streets safer, save people's lives and save money.

The fact is that gun registries do not work. The government is now finding this out. The Reform Party has said for a long time that the millions of dollars that are being put into the gun registry could be better spent on something else. I had this conversation with members opposite.

Over the last 20 years the number of people who have been killed with legal handguns is five per year. Should we spend $50 million, $100 million or $200 million to save five lives, when if we move it out of the justice system to somewhere else it could cost a hundred or two hundred lives because of rapists who are allowed to walk and murderers who are not arrested?

That is the reason we oppose it. It is not because we are against the registry, it is not because we are in the back pocket of the gun lobbyists, but because we want, like the government, to have the safest country possible. That is why we are opposed to it. However, we are in favour of the good gun control rules that we have in Canada.

Criminal Code April 20th, 1999

Mr. Speaker, indeed, the parole board must have that discretion.

If a person commits a crime and is sentenced, being eligible for parole after serving only one-sixth of their sentence is, in my view, far too little. That contributes to the lack of confidence that our police forces have in the ability of the justice system to support them.

I am not saying that we should toss people in jail and throw away the key. As I mentioned in my speech there are two groups, violent and non-violent. Perhaps I should say violent, career criminals and non-violent, non-career criminals. I think they should be treated very differently.

What I am saying is that a sentence should be reduced on the basis of a person's ability to meet requirements such as the treatment of drug addiction, obtaining psychiatric help or demonstrating appropriate behaviour within the context of the institution in which they are incarcerated. If they fulfill those requirements, then the parole board would be able to exercise its good judgment in determining whether that person should or should not be released.

Criminal Code April 20th, 1999

Mr. Speaker, although the secretary of state is responsible for Africa and Latin America, he has written many extremely articulate and informative articles and has been a leader in the House on the issue of early prevention. He deserves a great deal of credit. I have tried to use many of his ideas because they are just plain good. They are great ideas. I thank him for his long term involvement in this issue. He has been a true national leader on this issue.

The secretary of state's intervention is good. The solutions that have been employed in Alberta can be lessons to be learned and employed across the country. Much of that has been used in other headstart programs.

I am hoping that this will be a national program. I envision that three sections can be used.

The first is to use the medical community at time zero. All women go to their doctors during the course of their pregnancy. This would be an ideal opportunity to address prevention for FAS, nutritional aspects and others.

The second is to use the trained volunteer model which is used so successfully in Hawaii. It usually involves women who are good parents and who can act as mentors to families at risk and other families. They can teach people how to be good parents. We have seen the need for that in our country.

Last, we could use the schools from kindergarten to grade two like the example used by the Minister of Labour in her Moncton Headstart Program. We can bring parents and children into the schools to learn the basics of parenting and the importance child-parent interaction.

Criminal Code April 20th, 1999

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate the members for Surrey North and Langley—Abbotsford for the leadership they have shown for so long on the issues of victims rights and justice. My hope is that the government will listen to the many eloquent suggestions they have been putting forth for a long time and that it will employ them.

Perhaps Bill C-79 is an example of the failure of the government to listen to what the opposition has been saying for so long. Many years ago the Liberals, not the current group but the previous group, decided to make a change in the way they dealt with justice. Their view was that no longer would the justice system be primarily responsible for or have as its primary goal the protection of innocent civilians. According to the Liberal government of late seventies-early eighties the primary role of the justice system was the rehabilitation of criminals. We want to change that around.

We in the Reform Party believe the primary role of the justice system is to protect innocent Canadians from being victimized. That is not to say we want to ignore those who commit crimes. Far from it. The member for Elk Island eloquently mentioned the need for early prevention from the time a person is born.

I would suggest we need to work before that for some very pragmatic reasons. How do we do this? We are dealing with Bill C-79 and the issue of victims rights. Victims have rights and for too long those rights have been pushed down by a system that supports the rights of the condemned over the rights of the victims.

There are good parts in Bill C-79. There are parts about the right of the victim to put forward a victim impact statement and very importantly for the victim to have choice of whether or not to say it or to introduce it as a piece of paper. We applaud that as it is something the Reform Party has been pushing for, for a very long time.

We also want to see a way in which victims can know things about when the person who violated them is getting out of jail, where the person is going, and what conditions are being placed on the person. To my knowledge that simply is not happening right now.

Imagine rape victims finding out by chance or down the line that the person who violated them has been let out of jail. They do not know where the person is or where that person is going. They look over their shoulders hoping and praying the person is not after them.

This is the reality of the lives of many people who have been victimized and the government needs to change it. It needed to change it yesterday but having failed to do that it needs to change it now. Many times my colleagues, as well as members of the Liberal government and members of the other political parties, have presented constructive solutions to change this gross inequality in our justice system.

We also believe in the concept of restitution, that those who have committed a crime should do restitution to those who are victims. That would send a very clear message to the criminal that he or she we will have to pay the victim and society many times over the cost of the crime. The concept of restorative justice is a good one and one that we will support the government in pursuing when and if it chooses to do it.

The concept of protection of victims too is important. Right now we have a justice system that sentences people to a certain amount of time. Do the people serve that time? No, they do not. Not even for first degree murder do they serve the full sentence they are given. For everything but first degree murder people can be eligible for parole after serving one-sixth of their sentence. They are condemned, convicted of a serious offence such as attempted murder or rape, sentenced to 12 years, serve 2 years and released on parole.

What kind of message does that send to the criminal element? It says if they commit a crime they can get away with a minimal penalty. If we look at the two years that can be served in jail, the person who has been victimized will be paying the penalty of that and suffering long after two years are over. They will pay the price of their victimization long after the person who committed the crime is out on the street. What can we do? My colleagues have mentioned many constructive suggestions.

I will talk for a moment about the offender because therein lies a number of failures but also a number of opportunities to engage in some proactive issues. When I worked in jails I found that many of the people there had unfortunately not had treatment. The resources were not there to treat the underlying problems of why they were in jail in the first place. Their drug abuse and psychiatric and psychological problems were not being treated.

As a result we see a door that goes around and around with people being convicted, let out and convicted again. We do not break the cycle of crime, punishment and incarceration that condemns many people to a life that we would not want. I would argue that they do not want it either.

There are things we can do. I draw the attention of the minister to the fact that the people who are doing the psychiatric treatment and educational training are not getting the support they require.

Furthermore there is not an obligation on the part of criminals to engage in the activities that will prevent them from reoffending. They are essential but they are optional. We need to make it absolutely mandatory that if criminals ignore the required treatment for them to break the cycle of crime, punishment and incarceration, five-sixths of their sentences is not automatically removed on the basis of good behaviour to which they have not been committed.

We need a system where people will have their sentences reduced for good behaviour if they engage in good behaviour and not because it is automatic. They have to engage in the treatment required, the educational options to be employable when released, and the drug training and drug treatment programs that are necessary for them to break the cycle that contributed to their being in jail in the first place. Then they can have time knocked off for good behaviour, say a third of the sentence.

For heaven's sake, five-sixths of their sentence should not be knocked off just to have a revolving door and turf people out of jail because there is not enough room. If there is not enough room and a person is a danger to society, I guess we will have to build more prisons.

We also have to divide the prison population up into two groups: violent and non-violent. There is no way non-violent individuals, those who are not career criminals, should be stuck in with the violent criminals. Those who are not career criminals who made a mistake should have other options for serving their time. As I mentioned before, restitution is one of them. Treatment is another option that they have to engage in. Hopefully when they get out they will have kicked the drug habit, had the psychiatric help they required and be employable and functional members of society. Only then can we save our system a lot of money and also save other people from being victimized in the future.

We also need to look at the police. We saw recently a report from the exiting chief commissioner of police in Vancouver who lamented very clearly the fact that we have created a revolving door in our justice system. He despaired not only for himself, but more important for the men and women in uniform who serve and protect our communities. The police are being demoralized in part because they do not have the support of the justice system.

The justice system is not giving the penalty that is appropriate for the offence. As a result, the police wonder why they are putting all their work and effort into getting a conviction when the justice system is not giving the penalty. Many career criminals think it is a joke for obvious reasons. That has to change.

We have to support the police as they support us and that includes that the justice system attach the penalty that fits the crime. If you commit a violent offence, if you are a repeat offender, then you are going to meet the full force of the law. For others, there are different options.

The RCMP do not have the resources to do the job. They had to close down their training facility. They do not have the money for overtime to engage in the prosecution. They do not have the helicopters they require. They cannot even fix their patrol cars because there is not enough money. How can we have a justice system when we cannot support it?

Justice does not come unless we have a police force to support it. If we do not have a police force, then we approach anarchy. Nobody in the House, no law-abiding citizen in the country wants anarchy.

The hands of the police are tied on how to deal with organized crime. Organized crime is massive in this country. The police lament that the government has not given them the legislative tools to deal with organized crime, which has a huge penalty for our entire country. We need to do that. We need to give police those tools.

Let us look at what has happened historically in the amount of time that is required to achieve a conviction. The amount of work police officers have to put in is far greater than what they had to do 10 years ago because of the hoops and the loops the government has put in their way. We do not want sloppy police work, but we want to give the police the ability to do their job. Why put in numerous unnecessary bureaucratic hurdles?

I challenge the Minister of Justice to look at the justice system, look at the hoops the police have to go through. Remove the unnecessary hoops and keep those that are necessary for the rule of law to be upheld.

My colleague from Elk Island articulated the issue of prevention very clearly. A few weeks ago I was working as a physician and I came across a patient I had seen in the past. She was one of three girls I had treated in the past. She was the last one that I had seen recently.

She was 13 years old when she was put on the street by her mother to prostitute to get the money to pay for her mother's drug abuse habit. I was quite surprised that she was alive. I did not expect her to be alive because I had seen her a few years ago. She came into where I was working with track marks up both arms, some were infected and some were not.

The life she has been living is remarkable. It is a life that nobody in the House would want for anybody. She has been engaging in a great deal prostitution in part to support her mother's drug habit, but also to support her own. Like many other drug abusers she is spending between $200 and $500 a day on drugs. I asked how she was getting the money when she was unemployed. Prostitution and other criminal activities such as break and enter is the price society pays.

This situation did not materialize for this little girl as a 13 year old. She came from a tragic environment. I had met her two other friends a few years ago. I saw treated them in jail. They were 14 and 15 years old at the time. They had already been on the streets prostituting for a while. They were IV drug abusers. After examining them both I told them they would not see their 19th birthday. They laughed and giggled and said they did not really care because they were having fun. I was wrong.

I was reading the newspaper a couple of years after and one of the girls had been found dead on the side of a lonely road, murdered while engaging in another trick. A year after that I found her friend. I was walking through a pediatric ward and I saw her there. She had had a massive stroke in her teenage years from shooting up with IV cocaine. This is not uncommon.

If we examine the history of these girls and many of the people in jails, both adults and juveniles, we see a history oftentimes marred by improper nutrition, violent sexual abuse, and the witnessing of violence.

In up to 50% of the cases in adult jails, many of the people suffer from fetal alcohol syndrome or fetal alcohol effects. It is the leading cause of preventable brain damage in our country today. It is a silent epidemic.

The average IQ of these people is 68. They have a great deal of difficulty with cognitive functions and basic processing in their brain. When they attend school they cannot function properly because their brain is irreversibly damaged. There is no going back. They become isolated within school and act up. They engage in behaviour that puts them at the periphery of society. As they get older they often but not always engage in illegal activities. Then they end up in front of our justice system.

What if we could prevent that? What if we could prevent that person from having brain damage? We can and need to do it. We must do it. No longer can the epidemic of fetal alcohol syndrome be buried under the carpet and considered as something that affects people out there. It involves whole communities.

I remember flying in a chopper last year to an aboriginal reserve to do a clinic. I would venture to say that perhaps 25% of the people I saw were suffering from fetal alcohol syndrome or fetal alcohol effects. One-quarter of the people on the reserve had it. That is a guess but that is approximately the number of people I saw.

These people can never engage in being cognitive, interactive people in society. It is very difficult for them to do that. How do we prevent it?

The Minister of Labour and her husband started the Moncton Headstart Program in 1972. It was a leader in its field. Essentially they wondered how they could prevent children from running afoul of the law. How could they make them the best citizens possible? How could they change the course of their lives from what their parents had, which perhaps had been a life of crime, a life of poverty? How could they put them on a level playing field with others?

Essentially they worked with prevention. The parents and the children were brought together to strengthen the bond. Bad parents were taught how to be good parents. They were taught simple things such as disciplining a child. They were taught proper nutrition and the fact that a can of coke and a bag of potato chips is not good nutrition. The parents were taught how to engage in proper discipline, how to set boundaries, how to be a good parent.

We recently saw reports in the newspapers about studies that had been done. These studies looked at 1,600 random samplings of parents. Nearly 70% of those parents did not know the basics of good parenting. Seventy per cent across a wide spectrum of socioeconomic groups did not know how to be good parents. This may seem subtle but the impact on the future of our society can be dramatic.

The Moncton Headstart Program has been profoundly effective at reducing teenage crime rates, teen pregnancies and keeping kids in school longer with less dependence on welfare. There is a $6 to $7 saving for every dollar invested.

The same held true in the Perry Preschool program in Ypsilanti, Michigan and the Hawaii headstart program. The Hawaii headstart program used trained volunteers to work with families and saw a 99% drop in child abuse rates. The findings in Moncton were shown again in the Michigan program which has a 30 year track record of early intervention.

We have been trying to get the human resources development subcommittee to deal with this issue. It is studying children at risk right now. Let us look at implementing a national headstart program using existing resources. Have the feds take the leadership role by working with the provinces to prevent these things from occurring. There is a track record of prevention. There are pragmatic doable solutions which we can employ now. What a great thing if the House could do that for the children of this country. We can and must do it for all the children.

I asked that the House pass a motion calling for a national headstart program last year. I implore the minister to work with her provincial counterparts to deal with this. I implore the subcommittee chairman to deal with this.

Together we will be able to build a program, not just for the poor at risk, but for all parents. This cuts across socioeconomic grounds. Even children from affluent neighbourhoods and affluent households who are latchkey kids and who do not have appropriate parenting need the love, care and security that all children require. As we all know money and material things are no substitute for love, care and security and a secure home.

National Organ Donor Week April 20th, 1999

Mr. Speaker, this is Organ Donor Week. Sadly, Canada has one of the worst organ donor rates in the entire developed world. This year alone 150 Canadians will die while waiting for a transplant. Some will be children, some will be adults and many will die unnecessarily.

We can change all of that. The following are some suggestions that the Minister of Health can employ today: First, create a national organ registry of potential recipients, link this registry up with hospitals across the country and have a registry of intended donors; second, that there be a form on every patient's chart so a person can be asked to be a donor and have their wishes express to their family; third, have an organ procurement co-ordinator in every hospital; fourth, that a pool of funds be available for transplantation; and, fifth, require that all deaths be reported to the national registry.

During Organ Donor Week, I implore every Canadian across the country to sign up, be an organ donor and save a life.

Reform Of International Organizations April 19th, 1999

Madam Speaker, I thank the House for its tolerance with removing the date from the motion.

From Kosovo, to Cambodia, to Central Africa and to many other parts of the world, we see over 40 conflicts that are taking place as we speak. Kosovo, the one which has dominated the House for so long, is just the latest in a series of conflicts that have torn across the world for many years resulting in the death and dismemberment of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people, and the removal from their homes.

Over 90% of those involved in conflicts, individuals who have been killed or maimed, are people who do not have arms, are non-combatants and innocent victims who only want to live in peace.

Before 1945, we had World War II. Between 1945 to the late 1980s, we have had a cold war with two superpowers glaring at each other, armed to the hilt with very powerful nuclear weapons. Since the late 1980s, with the breakdown of the cold war and the post-cold war era, we have seen a proliferation of conflicts. In fact, over 40 conflicts have and are still taking place today throughout the world.

After the post-cold war era there was a belief that we would have a peace dividend, that the world would now be a safer place to live. The fact is the world is a much more dangerous place. We do not have the tools to deal with this fluctuating situation, a situation that is imperilling more and more innocent people, costing billions of dollars and wreaking havoc over nation states, many of which are imploding as we speak.

Although Kosovo has drawn most of our attention, it is by no means the largest, bloodiest or most destructive conflict existing today. The largest land mass battle ever to exist in the world is taking place right now on the continent of Africa. From Sierra Leone and Liberia to the west, to Sudan, Eritrea and Ethiopia to the east, right through the Central African Republic to the Democratic Republic of the Congo and down into Angola, a bloody war is taking place causing the deaths of thousands upon thousands of people every single week. Many people are maimed, many are raped, children are left to starve and entire countries are laid to waste.

As a nation and as an international community we have been completely and utterly unable to deal with this situation in any pre-emptive fashion.

In 1957 Lester B. Pearson won the Nobel prize for peacekeeping, an innovative measure to save people's lives. Many interesting initiatives have taken place since then, such as rapid humanitarian relief and the introduction of peacekeeping and peacemaking forces around the world.

However, we confuse peacemaking with conflict prevention. It is not conflict prevention because the moment we need to make peace, blood has already been shed, people have been killed and the seeds of ethnic discontent and future conflict are there for generations to come. We need look no further than to what is taking place now within the former Yugoslavia.

Slobodan Milosevic came to power and fomented violence against people. He initially stirred it up with the Croats by using propaganda and is now stirring it up with the people of Kosovo. The international community's response has appropriately been to engage in diplomacy.

When we were faced with the situation of the Jewish people and many others being slaughtered during World War II, what did we do? Nothing. If history has taught us anything it is that we have learned nothing. We continually sit on our hands and do nothing while people are slaughtered and killed.

The purpose of Motion No. 338 is to do something. It will change the international organizations that we are part of to become tools of conflict prevention. When despots are engage in actions that result in the deaths of thousands of people we will not stand by and watch. We will act with other like-minded nations.

The cost of this has been enormous. From 1945 to 1989 the UN has spent 23% of its budget on peacekeeping. From 1990 to 1995 it has increased that amount to 77%. Peacekeeping is bankrupting the United Nations.

I will articulate solutions to this problem through the revamping of the international organization. These conflicts did not appear overnight. Bosnia has been around for a long time. Kosovo has been around for 10 years. Many situations have been brewing for a long time. When General Roméo Dallaire spoke eloquently and forcefully before the slaughters in Rwanda and Burundi saying they would spiral out of control and result in the massacre of hundreds of thousands of people, we did nothing.

There are things we can do. We need to look at the precursors to conflict. We can see a polarization taking place before anything else happens. One group of leaders will start to remove the human rights of others. It will start abusing and ostracizing groups. It will polarize groups and try to get its own people onside.

As Michael Ignatieff, the famous author, said, they manage to polarize groups by focusing on the narcissism of the differences. Two people can be very similar but their small differences can be expanded out of proportion. This enables the despot to cause his people to start killing one another. We can see that happening. It is very obvious.

We can use the international financial institutions, the United Nations and NGOs who are on the ground to report back to the UN crisis centre. The UN crisis centre, headed by Stan Carlson, a Canadian, can be the centre through which information is channelled. The information can then go to the UN security council or farmed out to other organizations as part of the intelligence needed to determine ground activity earlier.

The security council needs to be reformed. Now that we are on the security council for the next year and a half there is much we can do. The security council is obsolete but maybe there is a way to change it. We could expand the security council by getting more countries involved, particularly those from Africa, South America and other developing countries. We would then have a more comprehensive and representative security council.

Vetoes should be removed from the five security council members. Granted, this would be extraordinarily difficult. Maybe the way around it is to ensure that the veto power can be only used for chapter VII actions under the UN security council. Or we could require two vetoes to block a motion or an action by the security council. Or we could require that all actions by the security council be passed by a two-thirds majority.

The UN needs to be overhauled in terms of its diplomatic initiatives. It needs to focus on what it needs to do. It cannot do everything and be everything to all people. Right now dozens of organizations are doing the same thing. Why not focus and streamline it so that one organization is tasked to do these things rather than many?

The actions which the UN can take are many. First, as I mentioned, propaganda is one of the most powerful tools that groups use to polarize individuals. For example, Slobodan Milosevic used anti-Croat sentiment to format anti-Croat actions by his own people. In Rwanda the Hutus disseminated propaganda against the Tutsis through short-wave radio.

The UN has the capability to engage in positive propaganda to bring together like-minded moderates from both sides. We need to do this. It is essential to do this if we are to dispel the negative propaganda that despots use to polarize groups.

We need to use diplomacy to bring groups together. When that fails sanctions can be utilized as well as military actions.

Soft power is good, but soft power needs teeth. We can only back up soft power if we have strong, sharp teeth. Strong military action is sometimes required if we are to prevent the deaths of thousands of people. I would submit that is what we are engaging in today in Kosovo.

All the diplomacy in the world is not going to convince individuals like Slobodan Milosevic to come to the peace table, with an olive branch, wanting peace. These people do not engage in the same moral frame of reference that we do. It is different. Individuals like Hitler, Milosevic, Sese Seko Mobuto and Daniel Arap Moi do not engage in the same moral framework; they engage in behaviour that is reprehensible to us.

The UN also needs to look at revamping its arms registry, making it obligatory for countries to sign on to the registry so that we know where inappropriate militarization is taking place. If the Jane's fighting ships can engage in intelligence gathering to put together comprehensive military expenditures, then certainly the United Nations could do that.

I would like to consider international financial institutions. The World Bank and the IMF are two parts of a triumvirate. They were brought together at Bretton Woods after 1945 to engage in peacebuilding, the reconstruction of societies, improving the markets of societies and also to engage in exchange rate stability around the world. I would argue that they have a much more powerful, potent and important force in the world for peace.

The first thing we need to do is to have them communicate and co-ordinate their actions. Much to my shock, I learned when I was in Washington and New York last year that it has only been since the end of last year that the UN, the IMF and the World Bank started to talk to each other. They have existed and operated in isolation. As a result, sometimes their actions have resulted in matters being worse from an international security perspective. They need to co-ordinate their actions.

Canada, being on the security council and having connections with most of these organizations, could act as a catalyst to work with like-minded nations to pull these countries together. Canada could act as a force to bring other countries together to work to reform these groups.

Wars need money. Every time we look at the television and we see developing nations, we see a 13 or 14 year old kid walking around with an AK47, the cost of which exceeds what that person would make in a year. Where does the money come from? Sometimes the money comes from us, through the IMF, the World Bank and other organizations. Sometimes these developing countries engage in destabilizing activities which result in the deaths of innocent people. We cannot tolerate that. We should have the power to prevent those moneys from getting into the hands of world leaders who would abuse their power at the expense of their people and at the expense of regional security.

The IMF, the World Bank and other regional development banks need to pay close attention to where those moneys are being spent and make the giving of those moneys conditional upon countries engaging in good governance, peacebuilding and investing in basic human needs such as education and health care. That builds peace. Investing in AK47s and small arms does not and we should not be a party to that.

We could invest in activities through international financial institutions, which is what the Grameen Bank has done for a long time. Micro credit loaning to average citizens helps them to become self-sustaining and self-sufficient, and it also builds peace.

While the actions of the IFIs can be used as a carrot, they can and must at times be used as a stick. When leaders of these countries engage in bloody actions against others, such as we have seen with Laurent Kabila in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, or with Emperor Bokassa in the Central African Republic, or what we see today with Daniel Arap Moi in Kenya engaging in bloody action with the Maasi and the Kalenjin people against the Kikuyus, why do we support that?

These people cannot be allowed to do that. We need to hold their feet to the fire. There are things we could do. We could call up loans and we could prevent those loans from being renegotiated. We could suspend borrowing privileges.

I remember being in Kenya in the late 1980s when Daniel Arap Moi, one of the richest men in the world, was begging the world for handouts. He is a multibillionaire. That should never be allowed to happen.

There are other tools we can use, such as withholding money and imposing economic sanctions. However, money needs to go to the people, as we do not want them to suffer. Money can be channelled through non-governmental organizations. Good NGOs, working effectively to provide basic services, could be used as a conduit to ensure that there is economic stability and that money is provided to the people so they can provide for themselves in the future.

Historically the biggest stumbling block to early intervention has been the concept of state sovereignty. Many people around the world have said that state sovereignty is sacrosanct. Many people feel that what goes on within a country's borders is that country's problem. However, if we look closely at what the concept means in terms of international law we can see that does not hold water where leaders are engaging in behaviour that is destructive to their people.

State sovereignty comes from the belief that sovereignty is a manifestation of the will of the people. The UN convention on human rights protects and upholds the will of the people and is the basis of government. Therefore, international law protects the sovereignty of a people and the will of the people, not the sovereignty of the nation state.

Therefore, under international law it is acceptable for us to engage in actions against state leadership when that leadership is engaging in brutal behaviour that contravenes the will of the state and also destabilizes the region.

There is also a very pragmatic and selfish reason for us to get involved. When wars blow out of control, when countries implode and descend into hell, who picks up the pieces? These countries are developing nations, generally speaking. After the conflict they are more of a wasteland than they have ever been. The cost to pick up the pieces rests on the shoulders of the developed world, countries such as Canada. We provide aid and we provide defence. At times our people lose their lives in peacekeeping operations, such as those we have seen in the former Yugoslavia.

We have a right to intervene, and to intervene early, because we pick up the pieces after the war has taken place.

In the first 40 years of the history of the United Nations there were 13 peacekeeping missions. In the last 10 years there have been more than 25. Rather than the situation getting better, it is getting worse. What I am proposing through Motion No. 338 is that we pull together like-minded nations, such as we did on the land mines issue. I firmly believe we can do this. We need to bring together like-minded nations such as Norway, Iceland, South Africa, Australia and Central American nations; countries that are interested in pursuing peace. We need to give them a plan of action. We need to convene a meeting, maybe in Ottawa, to agree on a common plan of action, not a commitment for more study. We can take this common plan of action to these international organizations. If we all have the same plan of action, if we are all working toward the same goal, other countries will come on side.

The ultimate outcome will be the revamping and rejuvenating of international organizations. They will be a tool for conflict prevention so that the conflicts of yesterday will not happen tomorrow, and innocent civilian lives that have been laid to waste in imploding countries will not continue.

We cannot prevent all conflicts of the world, but we can prevent some. That is what Motion No. 338 is about and I hope members from all parties will support it. It is something upon which we can work together, it is congruent with our history as a nation, and it will save many lives and billions of dollars.

Reform Of International Organizations April 19th, 1999

moved:

Motion No. 338

That, in the opinion of this House, the government should convene in 1998 a meeting of `like-minded nations' in order to develop a multilateral plan of action to reform international organizations (e.g. Internation Monetary Fund, World Bank, United Nations) so that they can identify the precursors of conflict and establish multilateral conflict-prevention initiatives.

Madam Speaker, I would ask for the unanimous consent of the House for the removal of the words “in 1998” from the motion. It was written two years ago and 1998 makes it obsolete. The removal of “in 1998” removes the time course from the motion and gives it more flexibility.