Laurie Hawn

[Prohibiting Cluster Munitions Act, June 16th, 2014]

What have I been doing for the last two hours?

[Prohibiting Cluster Munitions Act, June 16th, 2014]

Mr. Speaker, in point of fact, the general was right. We fight for freedom. That is what we fight for, the freedom for people to make their own choice on what they want to do. Afghanistan will never be a democracy like Canada. We fought for their freedom.

With respect to detainees, I really take offence. I know that file inside out. There was never any evidence at all from the Red Cross or—

[Prohibiting Cluster Munitions Act, June 16th, 2014]

No, I am sorry, but I will not shut up. I am going to speak the truth. I am going to speak the truth, and I would ask my hon. colleagues—

[Prohibiting Cluster Munitions Act, June 16th, 2014]

Another point that was brought up by another person across the way suggested that Canadians are allowed to transport munitions. That is not true. That is absolutely not true. It is false. The member should withdraw that statement. I know she will not, but that is okay.

Going back to my colleague, the retired general from Carleton—Mississippi Mills, we are not a pacifist nation. We were not pacifists in 1914, 1939, 1950, 1991—

[Prohibiting Cluster Munitions Act, June 16th, 2014]

Mr. Speaker, this will be more on the comment side. I want to clear up some of the misstatements of fact that have been made in the last little while.

First of all, there have been zero Canadians killed or injured by cluster munitions in Afghanistan, zero.

Second, the opposition talked about wanting to debate and that is terrific. They wrote all these speeches and that is great, but it sounds as if they sat around the same table at the same time, because the speeches have a remarkable similarity, and that is okay.

[Prohibiting Cluster Munitions Act, June 16th, 2014]

Mr. Speaker, our colleagues on the other side talk about wanting to hear speeches from this side. We did give speeches. Last time, I gave one and a number of other members gave them as well. The opposition has complained about not having enough time to speak. Well, we are giving them five or six hours, so they can speak their little hearts out.

We can go back and forth like this, and that is great, I have no problem with that. I want to pick up on something the member said about how a minority of people elected this government to a majority government. That is true, 62% of Canadians did not vote Conservative in the last election, 72% did not vote NDP, 82% did not vote Liberal, and 95%, plus or minus, did not vote Green or Bloc.

Of the majority governments we have had in Canada, five in our entire history had been elected with more than 50% of the popular vote. Trudeau never had one. Chrétien never had one. Let us put that part aside.

Getting back to the issue of Bill C-6, the suggestion that this bill allows us to use, produce, acquire, transfer, or incite and encourage others to use cluster munitions is simply false. That is just not true. I wish the hon. member would not intimate that.

[Prohibiting Cluster Munitions Act, June 16th, 2014]

Mr. Speaker, we are having too much fun here tonight, in a manner.

This is not about backpacking around Europe with a flag on one's back. I think the people we represent would not be very proud if we allowed Canadian soldiers to die on the battlefield because we refused help from an ally because we did not like something they were doing. I know how my constituents would feel about that and how the people I know in uniform would feel about that.

I want to take my colleague up on something he said. Maybe I misunderstood, but it seems to me that he was suggesting that somehow the way Bill C-6 is written is permitting Canadians to use cluster munitions. Of course, it is exactly the opposite. We do not use, possess, store, or permit the use by Canadian Forces of cluster munitions ever, anywhere, any time. I would like him to clarify that. I hope he did not suggest that. If he did, I would ask him to clarify that, because it is simply not the case.

[Prohibiting Cluster Munitions Act, June 16th, 2014]

Mr. Speaker, I listened to my colleague from Edmonton—Strathcona with interest. She is right. We do hang out with the Americans a lot, for all kinds of historical and practical reasons. We hung out with them from 1916 to 1918, from 1941 to 1945, 1950 to 1953, 1991 to 1999, 2002 to 2014, and 2011. I suspect that we will hang out with them again tomorrow somewhere.

We provide a lot of capability, as was mentioned previously, but we do not provide anywhere near the numbers that the Americans provide, of course.

My colleague talked about putting Canadians at risk. She was looking for an example, and I will relay one that I believe I used the last time we addressed this issue. That is the example of a white schoolhouse in Panjwaii, where Canadians were pinned down and were calling for air support. They had no idea where the air support was coming from. In fact, it came from the Americans. It could have come from the British or from the Dutch. It could have come from a lot of people.

They were not going to sit there on the ground and worry about what that F-16 or A-10 was carrying. They were worried about saving their butts because they were getting the stuff beaten out of them by the Taliban. They would not sit there, high and mighty, and say they did not want help from the F-16s or the A-10s because they might be carrying cluster munitions. They did not, but they might have, because the U.S. had not ratified the treaty.

The member is looking for examples of where we have put Canadians at risk by following what the NDP is proposing. I would suggest that this is just one example, and it is a real world example. It actually happened, and it is one of many examples.

[Prohibiting Cluster Munitions Act, June 16th, 2014]

Mr. Speaker, I do have to follow up on the last question and the comment.

In fact, the legislation says exactly the opposite of what was suggested. “We will not use; we do not possess; we are destroying what we have; we will not use, ever, cluster munitions.” That is part of the legislation.

Going back to the comments and response to my previous question, yes, we are small. We are not insignificant, but we are very small when it comes to our power versus the United States versus the Brits versus allies in general. We will never do an operation of that importance by ourselves. We are just not that powerful. We will always be operating with allies. Most importantly, and pretty much always, we will always be operating with the Americans.

I would like to ask my colleague, again, given the inevitability of the fact that we will be operating with the Americans, given the fact that we will never use or possess cluster munitions, is the member suggesting that because of that we should refuse to operate with the Americans?

[Prohibiting Cluster Munitions Act, June 16th, 2014]

Mr. Speaker, I caught the last couple of minutes of my colleague's input. I would like to ask him one simple question. It would be easy to be idealistic if we did not have to face the reality of the world that we live in.

Other than between 1812-15, pretty much every military engagement that we have entered into, we have entered into with the United States of America as an ally for all of the reasons that we understand. Is the member suggesting that if the U.S. continues to have cluster munitions in its inventory, because it has to face some realities that we do not have to face, we never, ever operate in any military operation with the United States of America?