Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased indeed to speak today on this important issue of missile defence.
To me it seems absolutely incredible that this debate has not taken place in the House before now. Over the four or five years that this has been on the front burner and the seven years it has been talked about by our American friends and neighbours, over all that time, I find it incredible that the government has not once brought this issue to the House for debate. That is a shameful record on the part of the government. Members of the House of Commons, who represent the population of Canada, have been completely left out of this debate in the House of Commons. That is an unacceptable way of dealing with such an important issue, an issue which is quite controversial across this country. The government really ought to think about that. Still, I hope the government will soon call for a debate on this issue. The opposition certainly has. I know we will see more debate on this in the time ahead, but I doubt it will come from the government side.
I would like to start by talking about what missile defence is. The hon. member who spoke just previously gave a pretty good background on what it is. He also presented some very interesting and productive ideas on missile defence. I appreciate that. It is good to hear that from the government side, because until now we have not heard that. It is a step in the right direction.
I will start by saying a little bit about what missile defence is not. It is not star wars. Anyone who refers to this missile defence program as star wars, as the NDP will probably do and as many others in the House will probably do, is really presenting the facts in a misleading way. It is in no way star wars as President Reagan presented star wars. It is nothing like that whatsoever.
It does not employ weapons in space, in fact. It calls for a limited ground and sea based system employing six interceptors. The program will start in 2004 whether Canada is involved in it or not. Up to 40 interceptors could be in place by 2005. It is a very high tech system in some ways, but in other ways it is very low tech because in effect it is a large bullet hitting the target that they are trying to shoot down. These interceptors would not have warheads of any kind, again, just a mass to stop the missile coming in. It would destroy the missile simply by the force of impact of one mass hitting another.
This is not a cold war system of any type, but it is a post-September 11 system. This system was being developed four years before September 11. Because of the wall coming down and the cold war ending, the United States could see that a new threat could be forthcoming and that threat could be from an accidental launching from Russia or other former Soviet states or it could be from new rogue states developing the capability. We have seen, of course, that North Korea has come a long way in developing that capability. As a responsible government would, the United States is just putting in place some ability to defend itself against either one of those situations. The purpose of the system is to defend against a small number of incoming missiles launched either by rogue states, terrorists somewhere, or by an accidental launch.
One of the messages that has already been delivered and I am sure will be delivered again throughout today about the concern over Canada becoming involved is that there could be debris from a missile that is shot down, and it certainly could be an intercontinental ballistic missile with an atomic warhead on board. This is certainly a very real possibility. The concern expressed is that the debris may come down on Canada. That is in fact a very real concern, but I would like to ask a question to anyone who is going to bring up this issue. Is it more likely that we can keep the debris away from Canada if we are at the table discussing this, if we are engaged on a day to day basis, and in fact further, if we are involved in the command as we are involved in the command of Norad?
In a situation where we just say no, we are out of it, or in the other situation where we are closely involved and actually become involved in the command structure, in which situation are we more likely to be able to keep debris away from Canada? Clearly it is in the position where we have a voice at the table on an ongoing basis in negotiating this system and in the command structure.
I would argue that it is extremely important that we become involved and we should have become involved at least three or four years ago, trying to look at this from a non-partisan point of view. The government certainly should have become involved at that time. That is when the Canadian Alliance, a responsible political party, the official opposition, took a position that we should go to our American friends and neighbours and say, “This is an interesting idea for several reasons”, and I will get into those reasons in a minute, “and because it is good for Canada, because it is good for our security, we want to sit down and discuss this with you and develop a system”. That is what should have happened three or four years ago but did not. Had we done that, of course, the likelihood of some negative impacts such as debris falling on Canada would be far, far less likely.
I want to talk about why missile defence is important. I want to make it clear that the primary reason that Canada should become involved in this missile defence program is for the security of Canada and for the safety of Canadians. In spite of the fact that I have been bringing this up for years now, how many Canadians or Americans know that we have no capability whatsoever to shoot down an intercontinental ballistic missile? If we have an accidental launch of a nuclear missile from Russia, as an example, and that could happen, although the probability is very low, I am not willing to sacrifice a city like Toronto, New York, Chicago or Edmonton. I am not willing, just because the risk is low, to say let us not bother doing anything about it.
I think a more responsible position is to say that we will work with the U.S. to develop some capability to shoot down an intercontinental ballistic missile, because right now we have no capability. Quite frankly, I think Canadians and Americans hearing that will be shocked. They will ask why we have not been involved in this. That is a question they should be asking the government because the answers have not been good and have not been explained why we have not been involved in it sooner in the way that the Canadian Alliance has recommended.
I want to get into a little bit of background on the relationship between Canada and the United States when it comes to security. Certainly the member of the Liberal Party who spoke just before me did a little of that and I will carry on. He referred to the Ogdensburg agreement of 1940. Since that time in the Canada-U.S. relationship, it has been recognized that the security of North America is indivisible. We cannot possibly set up a separate security system for Canada. It is simply not realistic. We could not afford it and it would not be effective.
Just as in 1940, Canada and the United States are today facing a common external threat. However, unlike World War II, in recent years Canada has not been very effective in advancing its security interests with the United States. In fact in some areas, Canada has not even been effective in retaining a seat at the table. If this is not corrected, the potentially alarming consequences for Canadian security could be quite dramatic and our most crucial trading relationship would be affected as well.
Perhaps the most important aspect of the Canada-U.S. security cooperation in the new era will be in the realm of border or perimeter security and law enforcement cooperation. Notwithstanding some progress on drafting some new agreements on cross-border security, Canada has not been very successful in reassuring the United States that unintended security threats will not emerge from this country, and now I am talking about the broad security arrangements between Canada and the United States.
David Jones, the former political minister and counsellor at the U.S. embassy in Ottawa, recently noted that border security and defence are two of the three main areas of contention in Canada-U.S. relations.
Mr. Jones warned that:
Canada has been offered the choice of assuring us that it is making comparable efforts to prevent terrorism or forcing us--at significant cost to both our societies--to protect against prospective terrorists in Canada... the semi-hysterical Canadian resistance to virtually every U.S. proposal--from sky marshals to tighter refugee screening--leaves the impression that Ottawa thinks it is humouring a batty uncle--
That is a quote from a top-ranking official responsible at the U.S. embassy, saying that in fact the Canadian government has acted as if the presentation of ideas like missile defence are not to be taken seriously. This has to be a real concern.
When we are looking at the security issue, it is not only that missile defence gives us a capability to shoot down intercontinental ballistic missiles, therefore making Canada a safer place, but it is that we have not gotten involved. And if the government holds off on a decision for another year or two or three, then we may not be allowed to become involved in any way, because the United States has made the decision that it will have a system in place by 2004. It has made that decision. It is Canada's choice whether or not to become involved in it, and because we have not become involved until this time we certainly have lost in many ways. I want to talk about how in fact that is the case.
In the area of continental defence, the United States is moving ahead with key military planning without any meaningful Canadian input. For several years, the United States has privately been urging the Canadian government to support the creation of an effective ballistic missile defence system for North America. It is not, as the Prime Minister says, that the United States has never yet asked us to be part of it. Only someone who is blind or not paying attention in any way and is not listening to what is going on could possibly realistically make a statement like that. This proposal has been on the table for several years.
In fact, General George Macdonald warned the House of Commons standing committee on defence, and I believe it was three years ago now if memory serves me well, that if Canada did not participate “it would represent the initial stages of the atrophying of Norad”, the North American aerospace defense command. He further warned that his own position as deputy commander, the second in command at Norad at the time, the top Canadian at Norad, likely would become “non-viable” if Canada did not participate.
The former member talked about going to Cheyenne mountain. I was with a small group of Canadian members of Parliament, I believe there were four of us, who went to Cheyenne mountain. We had two days with General Penney and a good part of a day with General Eberhart, who is the top American in charge, the top commander at Norad and also at Northcom. Both of those military leaders made it very clear that the United States really would appreciate participation by Canada. To me it is an offer that is extremely generous; It could go ahead on its own.
In practical terms it probably would not make a lot of difference to the Americans, except that it is the North American continent they are defending and they do not want to intrude upon Canadian sovereignty. If they go ahead with a system to protect the North American continent, which of course includes Canada, without Canadian participation, they are concerned that it would look to the world like they are intruding on Canadian sovereignty.
The argument in fact could be made that this is happening to some extent. When the issue of sovereignty is discussed in relation to this issue, Canadian sovereignty in fact has been hurt already by the tardiness of the government in making a decision on this issue. Had the government said three years ago that it wanted to become involved in this, to sit down and have in-depth discussions with the Americans and decide what the program would be, and the Americans are certainly open to that, and that it wanted to be involved in the command structure under Norad, and the Americans have offered that, had the government done that, it would have been a very positive move in terms of protecting Canadian sovereignty. Because the government has not acted in that fashion, Canadian sovereignty has come under attack. Canadian sovereignty has been hurt by that, which is extremely unfortunate.
The Canadian Alliance document “The New North--Strong and Free” was released a couple of weeks ago. The subtitle of that document is “Protecting Canadian Sovereignty and Contributing to Global Stability”. It is the Canadian Alliance white paper on defence.
The government will not take action on defence issues. The foreign affairs department will not take action on laying out a new defence policy for our country, so the Canadian Alliance has done it as official opposition. It released this document a couple of weeks ago. In this document our very first recommendation reads as follows:
Canada should support maintaining NORAD as a viable defence organization to counter threats in North America, including those emanating from rogue states possibly equipped with ballistic missiles and weapons of mass destruction. NORAD should be given the command responsibility for the envisaged system for defending against ballistic missiles.
That is our very first recommendation of 33 and it is no accident. This issue has been in the forefront with the Canadian Alliance for some time. We took a position on it about three years ago within our caucus and within our party. Because the government has not, the impacts are quite substantial.
First is the impact in the area of security. I have talked about the importance in the area of security, of giving us some ability to shoot down intercontinental ballistic missiles.
The second is hanging on to Norad. We have to be involved. Already we may not have an option but we will see. I still believe if the government were to make a decision quite quickly, we could still protect our involvement in Norad. Norad gives the whole North American continent protection against external threats, such as bombers and things like that. However since September 11, it also provides protection against internal threats. That capability which Norad provides could well be lost if an agreement is not renewed.
Top Americans, including Ambassador Cellucci and Canadian generals, like General Macdonald, have said that there is a very real threat to Norad if Canada does not become involved very quickly in missile defence. That was also said three years ago. We are really at the point now where we have to make a decision very quickly. There are other areas that have to be considered and these too are areas of serious consideration.
We will members of the NDP say that when we talk about issues like missile defence, we should not talk about the economy. I would think it would be irresponsible not to talk about the economy in conjunction with this missile defence issue from two points of view.
The first is from the Canada-U.S. relationship. We know how it has suffered under this government due to some extremely harmful statements made, the attack on our American friends and neighbours. Becoming involved could help undo some of that harm so that we are more likely to keep goods flowing freely across the borders.
The other is the economic impact from high tech industry becoming involved in developing this product. Already Canadians are somewhat involved but there is a concern that involvement may disappear completely if Canada does not make a decision very quickly. I will quote from an article by Simon Tuck in the May 12 Globe and Mail . He states:
Ottawa's stated schedule for deciding whether to participate in the United States' controversial national missile defence system will be too late for Canadian companies to gain maximum benefit, defence industry officials say. Ron Kane, vice-president of policy and research at the Aerospace Industries Association of Canada, says Ottawa must decide whether or not to participate in missile defence by the end of July, if Canadian defence companies are to take full advantage. “If we don't commit over the next couple of months, we'll be shut out.
The sense of urgency that is felt by the industry is certainly not shared by the government. That is extremely unfortunate. In fact we heard the Prime Minister say just last Wednesday that negotiations with the United States about the missile defence system could begin soon, but a final decision could still be months away. The defence minister has said that there is plenty of time.
There are members of the New Democratic Party or the governing party who say that the economy is not important. I should remind them that a third of the goods produced in this country are exported to the United States. We depend on the United States for jobs. If we are to have members from the New Democratic Party or the governing party stand up and say that the economy is not important, then I challenge them to take two of their friends out to a street corner and say, “There are three of us here. Our relationship with the United States is not important, so one of us loses our job. Which one is it going to be?”
That is reality. One-third of the jobs in Canada depend on the export of goods to the United States, so the economy is important. This is primarily a security issue. We should look at it from a security point of view but if we ignore the economy, we are doing it at the peril of Canadians and jobs in this country.
There is a lot to say on this issue. I will depend on questions to bring out some other points.
