Madam Speaker, I am pleased to rise in the House today to have this opportunity to speak to this motion that has been presented to the House by the member for Charlesbourg--Haute-Saint-Charles. I would like to thank the member for bringing forward this motion. It is a very good motion. There was some discussion about the motion and the amendment that was put forward this morning that was agreed to by all parties in the House. It actually improves the motion. The NDP is pleased to be supporting this motion today.
I have been sitting in the House this morning listening to the debate. I know that one of the Conservative members who spoke a little earlier professed some skepticism as to whether or not this motion would ever go anywhere. I wanted to actually be a bit optimistic and say that this motion and the work that has been done in regard to it is as a result of the good work that can happen when people work together in a constructive way in a minority Parliament.
It appears that this motion will be passed by Parliament a week or so from now, and that will be good, but certainly, it will then be the responsibility of all of us, and I am sure the Bloc Québécois will take the lead in ensuring that the government is then held responsible, to ensure that the motion is not lost and that indeed the legislation that is contemplated in the motion before us today does in fact come back to the House.
I understand the skepticism that is there, but we have to do our job and ensure that we do not let the government off the hook. There has been a willingness and a positiveness expressed today by the government that this legislation will indeed come back. We will certainly follow that up. We will do our bit and I am sure every other party, including the member who brought forward the motion, will be working very hard to ensure that this happens.
In fact, as has been pointed out, this motion partly results from work that has been done by attorneys general across the country in provinces and territories. It is partly their work, but it is also the work of the member for Charlesbourg--Haute-Saint-Charles working with other justice critics from other opposition parties that has brought us to this point.
I want to recognize the earlier work that was done in developing Bill C-242 by the member from the Bloc. In October of last year, three members, the justice critics from the Conservative Party, the Bloc Québécois and the NDP, actually held a press conference and together supported this bill and this initiative coming forward. I want to recognize the work that our justice critic, the member for Windsor--Tecumseh, has also done. He has worked on the justice committee and with other members of the House to bring forward this idea. Clearly, it is a good indication of people working together. It gives me a sense of hope of what can be done when people work together constructively.
The motion before us today is actually very intriguing. The essence of the motion is to reverse the burden of proof by seeking an amendment to the Criminal Code so that a prosecutor and the court system can put the onus of the burden of proof on individuals who have been convicted of a serious offence to demonstrate that their assets were not obtained using the proceeds of their criminal activities.
This is a very important principle and, as the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice pointed out, it may be a complex issue to develop and bring forward. I believe that in doing so, it must be done in the context and with respect to the charter. I would certainly agree with the government on that point. In fact, another Conservative member said earlier in the debate today that this has nothing to do with the charter or respecting the charter. I would disagree with that point.
Any legislation that comes forward, particularly this legislation that is contemplated in the motion, must be done through the lens of the charter. We must ensure that we also respect people's individual rights and liberties.
The principle that is contained in the motion is actually an important one. It reminded me of a similar process that exists at the municipal level. I am a former member of Vancouver City Council and within the city of Vancouver charter, there is a provision that allows the city of Vancouver to do what is called a show-cause hearing. It is exactly the same principle that is put forward in this motion. It reverses the burden of proof. In a show-cause hearing the city of Vancouver has a very significant power to require business operators or people who hold business licences to show-cause as to why their licences should not be removed.
In fact, this provision has been used on a number of occasions against businesses and stores in the downtown east side that, for example, were selling substances to alcoholics and making huge profits, things like rubbing alcohol or glue for the purpose of sniffing, and was being done deliberately.
It was also being used against businesses that were believed to be over-serving people and operating beer parlours in a manner that was completely contrary to any basic practices of good management. This power the city of Vancouver had to demand a show-cause hearing on those operators was, in effect, the same principle that we are debating today, of reversing the burden of proof. It was a fair process.
There may be concerns expressed about what we would be engaging in, but I know from the work we did at city hall, these show-cause hearings still go on today from time to time. It is a very fair, democratic and open process, and has been a very effective tool for the city of Vancouver. Maybe it is used by other municipalities, I do not know, as a way of ensuring there are good practices and management.
In doing some research on this motion before us today, in actual fact, the province of Manitoba, in 2003, introduced legislation called the criminal property forfeiture act. It would allow police to apply to the court for orders to seize property either bought with profits from unlawful acts or used to commit crimes. Clearly, the provincial government in Manitoba has already gone to some lengths to establish the same kind of procedure.
I know the member for Winnipeg Centre, who will be speaking for the NDP later today, will give further details as evidence that this kind of proposal can actually work and is indeed in operation in other jurisdictions. We want to recognize the work that is being done in the province of Manitoba by the NDP government in bringing forward a very similar initiative because of the concerns it had about the proceeds from crime and how organized crime was vastly profiting from illegal activities.
I want to speak about some related matters that have come up in the debate today. The motion before us today is very important. Hopefully, when the legislation comes back, it will provide an additional tool for law enforcement agencies and the courts to deal with organized crime, and the proceeds and profits that are gained unlawfully.
It is very important that we not only look at the consequences of those illegal efforts but also at the causes. A number of members who have spoken today have used as examples issues around organized crime and grow ops, particularly in British Columbia but not exclusively.
The member for Esquimalt--Juan de Fuca, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence, stated earlier that 85% of grow ops in B.C. are related in some way to organized crime. I do not know whether he is right but that was the figure he used. Whether or not 85% is absolutely correct, certainly the numbers are very high. There is obviously a correlation between this motion and what takes place in organized crime.
It behooves us to examine some of the causes and the problems we are facing. The Bloc member and I were part of the Special Committee on the Non-medical Use of Drugs which was reconvened to deal with the drug bill which is now back before the justice committee. Testimony in the earlier version of the decriminalization of marijuana bill clearly showed us the very strong links between our drug laws and prohibition and organized crime.
Mr. Eugene Oscapella, who is from the Canadian Foundation for Drug Policy and teaches at the University of Ottawa, provided some fascinating insight into the real world of the illicit drug trade. He produced information for the committee. For example, to buy a kilo of heroin at a farm in Afghanistan would cost about $90 U.S. After that same product goes through its circuitous route through organized crime and finally hits the street, its value has increased by 32,000%. That same kilo would sell for possibly $290,000.
We need to recognize and come to terms with the reality that our laws are actually fuelling organized crime in terms of prohibitionist policies. This is an incredibly lucrative business. Whether it is grow ops, trafficking on an international scale, or financing terrorist organizations, there is absolutely no question that the illicit drug trade is a huge market and a lucrative proposition for organized crime. It is the primary source of its vast amount of profits, its influence and its power. We have to recognize that fact.
We can look at the law as it is and ask ourselves what kind of changes we need to bring in. A motion such as the one before us today resulting at some point in legislation would be an important tool in looking at the proceeds of criminal activity and organized crime. It is also important that we examine the impact of the law itself and how it fuels organized crime.
I often think of the whole regime of prohibition as being akin to a regime that equals a chaotic situation. It is an environment with no rules. It is an environment where violence is the method by which disputes are resolved. The member from the Bloc spoke earlier this morning about the deaths that have been caused by organized crime; I think he mentioned 160 deaths in Quebec alone. On TV we have seen those horrendous situations and the communities that have been impacted and the innocent people who have been killed as a result of the activities of organized crime.
My own community of east Vancouver has seen many deaths, whether they are from overdoses or whether they are from the whole regime of prohibition. It has had an incredible impact on individual lives as well as on the health and well-being of the community as a whole.
I have done a lot of work on this in my local community. There is a strong sense that we need to have a realistic examination of our laws and the impact of drug enforcement. We have to question whether or not at the end of the day it can be realistic.
It is such a lucrative business. We could put more cops on the street. We could do a lot of things, but the fact is, as many members have spoken about this today, this business is still growing.
As the member for Langley mentioned earlier, I do not think it is a matter that somehow we have all gone soft on crime. That is too easy an analysis. It is too simple a solution to say that. It may respond to the fears that people have about what is happening in their local community, but it is a very simplistic analysis to say that somehow all of us, except presumably the Conservative Party members, have gone soft on crime.
These are very complex issues. There is a growing recognition that law enforcement alone cannot deal with this problem. If we truly want to deal with organized crime, if we want to deal with the violence that flows from organized crime, if we want to deal with the drug trade, then we have to look at the illicit nature of that trade and recognize why organized crime is involved in that business.
The NDP is very pleased to support this motion. We did have some concerns originally that the motion was a little too broad. The way it was written it was like a blanket. With the amendment that has been put forward it is much more satisfactory.
It is very important when the bill comes back that it has a close examination. I heard the member from the Bloc question the government as to whether or not there might be some speedy process. It is something that all parties will have to discuss, but it does require an examination obviously. I would certainly encourage the Liberal government, in the spirit of this minority Parliament and the work that has been undertaken by individual members of this House who have put in a lot of effort to bring this motion to the House today, particularly the member from the Bloc, to ensure that this does not slip off the political agenda.
There is an expectation, assuming that this motion is approved, that it will come back, that there will be legislation and we will examine it. Hopefully, we will be able to pass something. It is a rare day that all sides of the House agree on something. We may have some slightly different perspectives on how we approach this, but I think there is a sense of unity here.
There is a deep concern about the impact of some of these incredibly violent crimes on people and communities. There is obviously a demonstrated willingness to take up this motion and to translate it into some workable legislation. Certainly within the NDP we will wholeheartedly support that effort and work both in the House and at committee to ensure that happens.
I hope also that we recognize some of the broader aspects of the issue that we are dealing with here in terms of organized crime. We need to have other debates, not on this day but on other days.
I would like to thank the member for bringing this motion forward. I congratulate him on his work. It is a good motion and we are pleased to support it.
