Mr. Speaker, it is very important that the member for Etobicoke North has brought forward Bill C-212 today. Having listened to the debate and some of the rationale, it is good that this debate is taking place. The issue of user fees and the way the government provides services is rarely debated. This is a very important opportunity for us to put an area of government that is rarely examined under the microscope and shine a spotlight on it.
From the perspective of the NDP, we have very serious reservations about user fees in principle. The hon. member listed all the organizations that support his bill. I note that they are all business organizations. Obviously there is concern in the business community about how user fees creep in and how they increase and increase.
From our perspective, we also want to raise a broader issue, and that is how user fees have become so prevalent everywhere in society, particularly on individuals. One only has to look at the debate on medicare and the issue of user fees. One only has to pay a visit to the ATM or to a bank. Everywhere we go there are new user fees.
I take the member's point very well when he says that there is absolutely no relationship, whether in government or in private sector, between the amount of the user fee and the cost of the service that it is supposedly being provided. We get charged for using ATM machines and dinged a second time when the transaction goes through the bank.
We appreciate the fact that this issue has been raised but we want to broaden the debate and the understanding about this and put it in the context of the role that user fees play in our society.
User fees are a kind of sneaky, back door way of taxation. I can remember when I was a member of Vancouver city council back in the eighties. The mayor at the time was Gordon Campbell with whom I am sure most members are familiar. He is now the Premier of British Columbia. He was infamous in Vancouver for publicly saying on the one hand that he wanted to hold the line on taxes, but then the other hand, under his administration, he brought in massive user fees throughout the whole municipal arena. It was insidious and it happened quietly year after year. If people had examined what had taken place, they would have found that it was a massive tax increase on municipal taxpayers, whether they were developers seeking development permits or small businesses wanting to open up shops or something like that. It is a very insidious form of taxation and is something we should be very vigilant about.
The other problem with user fees, particularly as they apply to individuals, but also as they apply to businesses, is that they disproportionately affect low income people or small businesses. Compare a large corporation with more resources to pay user fees to a small business, or an individual or someone on low income. We will find that a much greater weight is being borne by people with less resources or living on a lower income. For that reason as well, we are very concerned about the expansion of a user fee philosophy.
With respect to the bill itself, I never knew the amount of revenue we were talking about, in terms of the federal government, until the member outlined it today; $4 billion annually. That is quite horrendous. If we added in all the other kinds of user fees in the private sector, that amount would also be quite massive.
I agree with the member that there is a systemic bias within departments to just merrily go on their way and increase user fees.
There is no accountability. There is no scrutiny. There is no transparency. There is no one checking what is going on. These user fees continue because it is in the interest of the department to keep rolling them in.
When we talk about the issue of accountability, let us be very clear that while we can look at it as an issue of systemic bias in any department that the member has raised, without a doubt there is also pressure on that department. If its funding is falling as a result of the public debate that takes place here and there are government cutbacks, and the Liberal government is responding to the pressure from the Canadian Alliance, it actually reinforces that kind of systemic practice of a department to increasingly rely on user fees instead of being up front with people and telling them the services it delivers and the costs of the services.
If we want to maintain high quality, public, accessible services, then we have a progressive taxation system to provide the revenue that comes in. I would much prefer that we take that route philosophically and politically than having a sneaky, backdoor way of bringing in money.
This is the first hour of debate on the bill. It is a votable bill. Certainly insofar as the bill does bring greater transparency and accountability to the user fee system that exists, it is something that is very supportable for the New Democrats. I would like to make it clear that we actually see it in a much bigger picture. Our concern also extends to the impact of user fees on individuals in our society, particularly where it involves the provision of public services.
I thank the member for bringing the bill forward. We look forward to the ongoing debate on it. We will have discussions within our caucus but we are generally supportive of it. Maybe there will be opportunities to raise further issues on the bill. Maybe there will be amendments but it is a bill that is very worthy of debate and support. It deals with a very important area of government operation.
