Linda Duncan

[Ukraine, February 26th, 2014]

Mr. Chair, the hon. member is making a very good point. However, the important thing will not be what Canada or other external countries can do, but what we can do to support Ukraine to become strong, so that Ukrainians on their own can combat against anybody who might try to divide the country.

Obviously, they are in a lot of turmoil right now. In viewing the coverage, there are volunteer police on the streets with the police officers. Who knows how long the police will have patience for that. There will be many families with deep grief, who will be seeking revenge and so forth. We do not know what is going on in Crimea.

The best we can do is to say we are there for Ukraine to keep the country together and to ask what we can do to assist. Let us hope that we do not go to the extent where we have to think about sending in armaments, which has happened in the past in some cases.

Time is of the essence. There have been too many times in history where people have said that we should have gone in sooner. Let us not make that mistake this time.

[Ukraine, February 26th, 2014]

Mr. Chair, I cannot speak to the actual amount.

In the House today, concerns were raised about Venezuela. I have had people contact me to say that we are talking about Ukraine, but what about Thailand? It is important that the government be serious about that and think about what we can commit.

The member asked a valid question; we need to put our money where our mouth is. Time is of the essence in Ukraine. If the country tries to hold its government together, it is going to need a major infusion of dollars to get to the next tranche before it can negotiate with IMF or someone else.

We could perhaps also provide guidance to the IMF to not to go too hard on them. Most Ukrainians are living in dire poverty already and could not take much more economic hardship.

It is incumbent upon us to commit a lot more money. We will wait to hear more when the government returns. It would have been nice if representatives of the other parties could be there and we could all come back convivially, to say that having heard them personally we should go for it. There could perhaps be a delegation returning very soon, maybe during the election monitoring.

[Ukraine, February 26th, 2014]

Mr. Chair, I would never pretend that I personally have all the answers for Ukraine. Heaven knows, we are still working on good governance in Canada and, hopefully, all working together in that direction.

I can provide my colleague with a couple of examples, and it would be well worth those who are responsible for foreign affairs and CIDA and so forth looking into this.

While I was working in Bangladesh on a CIDA project, the Government of Canada came out with a program on instituting anti-corruption measures that worked within the Bangladesh government. Bangladesh has been well known for some time as being very high on the list of corrupt regimes, and some headway was made.

We have a lot of expertise within our own administration. We should sit down and do the hard work required, and start talking to our own administration about our experience in other countries, to identify the most cost-effective way to do that.

I understand that the Americans are also headed to Ukraine right now, and so are the Europeans. It is important for Canada to show leadership. It was done in Indonesia when we had too many donors competing with each other. Canada showed leadership through CIDA called a meeting, and continued to hold meetings, to coordinate the donors so that every dollar was used in an efficient and expeditious way without the overlap.

Canada has an opportunity to show leadership here. That is one way that we could contribute to the development of the rule of law and democracy in Ukraine.

[Ukraine, February 26th, 2014]

Mr. Chair, I know the hon. member has had considerable experience working overseas, as have I. We have the experience in providing this expertise, as have many other nations around the world.

For example, we have sent judges overseas to train judges in how to properly judge and set up the system. I myself have trained judges, prosecutors, and investigators in several countries around the world. An important part of that program is not just for us to go over and tell them that this is the way we do it, but to bring them to Canada as well.

One of the things that was identified strongly in the mission to Ukraine we had a year and a half ago was the desperate need at the local level in the civic administration, where they have very little experience in actually running government, including engaging citizens, and very little recognition and understanding of NGOs and how to bring people into the council chamber. It is very important to take civic officials over, to bring over members from the judiciary, but it is also important for us to export people who could teach how to set up audit systems and how to deal with corruption.

[Ukraine, February 26th, 2014]

Mr. Chair, I will share what a young Ukrainian returning to Kiev has been quoted as saying. “This is not about getting into the EU. This is about justice. And justice is something that this country hasn’t seen in a long, long while”.

As I mentioned, to their credit, the new people who are in the process of forming the government have set a number of conditions: no previous member of the presidential administration; long-term experience working with specific sectors; managerial experience; and a complete lack of involvement in human rights abuses and corrupt deals.

Congratulations to the people of Ukraine, trying to put together a proper government.

[Ukraine, February 26th, 2014]

Mr. Chair, it is a great privilege to participate in this take note debate. I have appreciated the move toward more conviviality in this place. That is what I experienced in the last take note debate. I had a high regard for all of the members in every part of this place. We are all in this together. We are all Slava Ukraini.

New Democrats, as I know do the other parties in this place, stand with the people of Ukraine. My colleagues and I express our deepest condolences to the people of Ukraine for those who lost their lives and those who remain seriously injured. I know that all members in this House tonight share those condolences. We are relieved that the violence has come to an end. We are hopeful that violence will not start up again.

My colleagues and I have been trying to follow closely and there have been missives coming hourly from all parts of the globe, and particularly from Ukraine and Ukrainians across the globe, updating us on what is going on. I understand that as we speak the new Ukrainian government has been formed, and in a few minutes I will speak about the incredible conditions it is trying to place on who it is appointing into its cabinet.

We continue to take guidance from the people of Ukraine, those who we can communicate with in these difficult times, and with the Canadian Ukrainian community. As other colleagues mentioned occurred in their hometown, in Edmonton more than 200 people showed up in very frigid temperatures for a memorial to those who lost their lives in Ukraine. Following that, as my colleague from Edmonton East mentioned, there was a gathering at a residence for Ukrainian students at the University of Alberta to appreciate and look at the posters that were produced during that time in December to try to encourage people to come to the square and to support the rising of the populace toward a more just society. It was very powerful. If members have the opportunity to have the show come to their town, I would encourage it. It is brilliant.

As many have mentioned, there are almost 1.5 million people of Ukrainian descent in this country. A good many of those are in my province of Alberta and in the city, which I know the hon. member for Edmonton East has shared. In my own constituency, there are many of Ukrainian descent. I have mentioned before that I have had the privilege to share in a beautiful Ukrainian feast on Christmas Eve. The more time I spend with my Ukrainian Canadian friends, the more I think that maybe a bit of me might become Ukrainian. If one lives in Alberta long enough, he or she is bound to pick it up in a certain way.

Free speech and the right to peaceful protests are fundamental to any democracy. That is what Ukrainians are calling for. It is important that as free Canadians, all of us should share some of our time and resources to support them to achieve that which they desire so strongly.

We are pleased that the government has sent a delegation over. We are disappointed however that it did not include representatives of the opposition. I am hopeful that in the next delegations that go, we will have representatives from all parties. Why is that? Because Ukraine itself is now forming a government of many parties together. Maybe even some of the people from the Party of Regions have stepped up to the plate, to join in a more democratic form of government. Therefore, it is important that we show good faith and show that co-operation is possible.

The Ukrainian Canadian community, including the Ukrainian Canadian Congress, has called on Canada to show leadership in the international community. I know that all of us are turning to the UCC for leadership. We all have components of that in our own communities. The UCC is calling for us to support the Ukrainian people to achieve a lasting political solution that includes justice for human rights victims and respect for democratic freedoms. It is my understanding that those measures are on the forefront of the considerations and conditions for appointment to their new government.

To date, there has been a lot of support by Canada to the economic and democratic development of Ukraine. Back in 2009, I think Ukraine was designated as one of the priorities for Canadian aid through CIDA. Considerable money was dedicated, a lot of which was not only for economic development, particularly in small and medium industries, but also for civil engagement to a certain extent. A year and a half ago, a number of the members in the House today participated in a mission to Ukraine to look into concerns about the erosion of the rule of law and democracy.

We met with chambers of commerce, human rights activists, and opposition and government members. We certainly heard a lot of ideas on measures they would like to take and how we could support them. It is incumbent upon us to be working with other nations around the world to figure out a way for the government of Ukraine to put measures in place so that it can start combatting the corruption, which is endemic in its society.

I have worked in other countries where there is the same problem of corruption. It stems from simply not paying their civil servants enough, who then get on the take so they can survive and look after their families. That is going to be one of the biggest challenges the Ukraine government will face and will require some international expertise in. It has been offered to other nations around the world, and I think that is one of the areas where Canada can really contribute.

Our delegation that went with Foreign Affairs made a number of recommendations to the Government of Canada out of that. We all unanimously agreed. There were a couple of additional ones that our party made. However, we did advocate, immediately and forcefully, for the prompt release of political leaders. Of course, we are all grateful that Tymoshenko has been released. There are others who have been in prison. There are others who have had to leave the country and hopefully, they will be able to come back and participate fairly in Ukraine.

We called for the strengthening of the rule of law. Of course, that has been what has fallen apart. What I am hearing a lot from people, including members of parliament in Ukraine, is it would be absolutely critical that the new government move toward justice for all and toward democracy, not revenge. Coming out of the heat of the moment and the reprehensible killing of people in the streets, there will be a lot of calls for revenge against the police and judges who allowed these activities. It is incumbent on us to send experts to work with Ukraine's department of justice and its police. We have done that before in other nations, and I think we can do that again.

Out of that mission, the New Democrats, particularly, called for a careful look at protecting Canadian investments in Ukraine and making sure they are protected from corruption. I spoke to a representative of the Canadian Ukrainian Chamber of Commerce just today, before I came to the debate. He said that a number of people in Canada are looking into some kind of investment fund that Canadians could invest in to support Ukraine. However, they want to be very careful that there will be stronger measures to protect against corruption, because we want to protect Canadian investments.

Certainly, Ukraine is cash-strapped. We have heard the pleas for support. It may well have lost the Russian support and it will need a major infusion of cash just to keep its government going, let alone its economy. One thing Canada could do, and it has shown leadership in the past—and I was part of that in Indonesia, where Canada gave considerable aid in the 1980s and into the 1990s—is we could show the leadership and bring together the donors from around the world, to sit down and try to coordinate where we could best give the expertise, the assistance, and the dollars, and where they could be targeted to move Ukraine forward in the best way.

As the Ukrainians are expressing very clearly, what went on in the Maidan is not about the EU versus Russia. It is about the call for a just society. We have heard a number of colleagues tonight say let us not talk about Russia versus EU investment and the divide between those who speak Russian and those who speak Ukrainian. It is incumbent upon us to help the Ukrainians to bring all of those divisions together again, and the hope for a united country.

I was going to share some of the terms they have imposed on the cabinet, but I am running out of time. Perhaps in a question I could do that. It is absolutely incumbent on our government, and it has shown that it is recognizing Ukraine's parliament. It may be a little early. They have just established that parliament. Perhaps that will occur when the government delegation is there, or perhaps when they return. Rather than just sending the political delegation, Canada should also be gearing up toward sending a delegation of experts: financial experts, anti-corruption experts, democratic reform experts, and experts in setting up judicial processes. This will be a long-term engagement.

In closing, I would simply say: Slava Ukraini

[Ukraine, February 26th, 2014]

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank the hon. member for participating in this debate. I had the privilege of travelling with him when we were monitoring the election. We were enclaved together; then we went to opposite locations and ended up together again in Lviv.

I wonder if the member would like to share with us in this take note debate his experiences on the ground; the conviviality and friendship that I am sure he found in the communities he went to in Ukraine, the same as I found in the communities I went to.

I can certainly speak to how profoundly committed I found the Ukrainians to be in getting out to vote. I think it was pretty clear even from the monitoring reports, from the European Commission, and so forth that where the corruption probably occurred was before and then after the voting. Certainly, I saw people turning out in hospitals, mental institutions, even in prisons as well as the suburbs. There were women with baby carriages, elderly people, and some people in wheelchairs wanting to participate in the democratic process.

I wonder if the member could share his experience there and whether that might also speak to the drive we are now seeing in Ukraine to actually form a solid, democratic, human rights and rule-of-law respecting nation.

[Ukraine, February 26th, 2014]

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank the member for Toronto Centre for her heartfelt comments. Of course, I am proud to have her family in my constituency.

As the member is well aware, a good portion of Ukrainian Canadians live in my city. I was proud to spend Sunday evening with them, viewing the incredible posters from the Maidan that were produced in December at the beginning of the issue. Immediately before that, there was a memorial service in the square in Edmonton. It was very heartfelt.

As well, I can attest to the fact that the hon. member's mother helped to write the constitution of Ukraine, which is now being restored.

It is absolutely incumbent on the House to show examples of how co-operation can proceed toward a good end. The sitting government of Ukraine is now a combination of all of those opposition parties, which shows how they can come together, even though they have a diversity of views, to reform the way that they operate under the government and move forward together.

I wonder if the member would support the invitation I would extend to the government side, which is that a nice gesture would have been to include a delegation of all the parties in the House to show that we share a common support for the people of Ukraine that continues and that is very strong.

[Ukraine, February 26th, 2014]

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank my colleague for her very heartfelt and solid speech. She has a lot of foreign affairs experience, and we can respect her opinion in this place.

It is one thing for our government to stand in a square and speak to the protestors, but it is another thing for the government to step up and commit the scale of resources that is going to be needed to help Ukraine get on its feet, to provide rule of law and a democratic government system.

I know the member has had many experiences working in other foreign countries. I had the privilege of working in Mexico, Indonesia, and Bangladesh, and there were major Canadian infusions of dollars to the order of, in some cases, $80 billion to support the development of good governance. Around the world, donors are now getting together.

Does the member think it would be leadership that Canada could provide, by going over to Ukraine with a delegation of Foreign Affairs and CIDA officials and leading a gathering of the donor nations in how they can work together to provide the solid additional support that Ukraine is definitely going to need?

[Petitions, February 26th, 2014]

Mr. Speaker, my second petition is from Edmontonians calling on the government to fully co-operate with the provinces and territories to negotiate a new health accord by 2014 that improves health care services through stronger federal leadership backed by long-term and stable health care funding.