Maurice Vellacott

[Criminal Code, March 12th, 2004]

Mr. Speaker, as I was saying, the Supreme Court of Canada in the Sharpe decision considered the defence of public good. It found that “public good” has been interpreted as necessary or advantageous to the pursuit of science, literature, art or other objects of interest. We know that can get fairly broad and in fact a little strange at points.

I refer to something which I think shocked the entire Canadian public when a Canada Council award was given to an individual named Istvan Kantor in recent days, an individual who has actually been fined for vandalism with his so-called art and so on. There was money out the door on that. He was recently awarded by the Governor General. The public was probably more of the view that the guy should be fined yet further for some of his atrocious acts of vandalism and so on, considering his criminal record. Instead, he was encouraged for that by getting the award.

Obviously we have some upside down values at points in society and we regard things that are not particularly good. There is a stream of thought out there that says these are great things and they are good for the pursuit of science, literature, art and objects of general interest. That is part of the problem.

It was said that it might be argued that the public good is served by possession of materials that promote expressive or psychological well-being or enhance one's sexual identity in ways that do not involve harm to others. Obviously in the case of Robin Sharpe it is at the point that these are not just imaginations or machinations in the brain, but they kind of work out in his life.

Within the last day Robin Sharpe has again been convicted. He carried out a sexual act on a young person many years ago and there was a conviction. It is obvious that it is not just an issue for this man in particular, that it only has to do with him, but in fact it does perpetrate harm upon other people.

The Conservative Party wants to make very plain that we do not think there should be any defences that justify the criminal possession of child pornography. Of course, the criminal possession of child pornography does not apply to those in the justice system or, for purposes of prosecution, researchers studying the effects of exposure to child pornography.

Believe me, it is pretty horrifying to speak to police officers. A number of them are having to research this stuff and bring it forward for prosecution. It messes up their minds in a very big way having to go over that material and having to present all of it, and not just a sampling of it. I gather at the end of the day the police officers who have to see this horrific stuff are almost traumatized from the violence and brutality that is inflicted upon children in these images that are used in prosecutions.

We do not bring charges against the good folk of the police forces across the country. In fact, they would prefer not to have to go through so much of that stuff in prosecuting the cases against those individuals. It is a horrific thing for the police officers to be put through, the good police, the men in blue who defend the interests and common good in this great domain of Canada.

On the issue of the age of consent, 80% of Canadians that have been polled have said that they want the age of consent raised to at least 16 years. Only two years ago provincial ministers unanimously passed a resolution calling on the federal government to raise the age of consent to at least 16. The will is there, one would think, at least on the part of the provinces. We question whether the will is there and obviously it is not on the part of the federal government. It just does not seem to understand the urgency of it. Even the pressure of the provinces bringing this forward and unanimously asking for it still has not moved the government.

In most western democracies 16 or 17 years old is the minimum age of consent. We think it is not asking too much at all in this modern world. Because of technology and so on, it is going to be passed around, distributed and disseminated so very readily. We think that in the promotion of good for the public and for the protection of youth, the age of consent should be raised.

We heard from another member in answer to my question to him that certainly the police officials across the country, the chiefs of police and the police officers on the beat want the age of sexual consent raised because it would make their jobs easier. It would put them in a position where they could get convictions much more readily instead of all the ropes and hurdles they have to go through in terms of prosecuting some of this very vile, offensive stuff.

Even the former justice minister Anne McLellan stated that raising the age of consent was something the government--

[Criminal Code, March 12th, 2004]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the remarks of my esteemed colleague who just spoke. He has been attorney general in his province and has worked in the law field for some time, so he has had a lot of discussion and dialogue with the authorities, with justice officials under his purview and his watch in the province of Manitoba, and he serves our Conservative Party very well as our lead critic in these matters.

The bill we have before us, Bill C-12, is one about which different people have wanted to speak out. People are outraged that we do not have it right in respect of the piece of legislation that we have here today. This whole controversy about the artistic merit defence actually began some time ago in reaction to the court case of John Robin Sharpe, a notorious child pornographer.

The bill purports to make amendments to the Criminal Code to safeguard children from sexual exploitation, abuse and neglect. We think the bill has not done this in the appropriate way and to the extent that it should. Therefore, as Conservative Party members, we have objections with respect to the Liberal government bill before us today.

The Supreme Court of Canada said in the Sharpe case that artistic merit should be interpreted as broadly as possible. That very much concerns us. We do not have any other direction from Parliament, the highest court in the land, if we will, so therefore we have a broad latitude in the statement from the Supreme Court on the John Robin Sharpe case. That statement helped shape the decision that allowed John Robin Sharpe to be acquitted for two counts of possession of child pornography with the intent to distribute.

That material, containing some very violent writings targeting vulnerable children, was considered by judges to have artistic merit. Since that time, this side of the House, particularly the Conservatives, has called on the federal government to eliminate that particular artistic merit defence.

Under this now slightly changed bill, Bill C-12, the existing defences of child pornography, that is, artistic merit, educational, scientific or medical purposes, are reduced to a single defence of public good, but this still has not solved the problem because of how wide and a little bit vague this term is.

Despite the attempts of the former justice minister, the member for Outremont, to sell us the bill and convince us on that basis that the artistic merit defence was eliminated--and technically speaking that would be true--he admitted in the justice committee that it is still included under the broader public good defence. Therein lies the difficulty. As he said in the justice committee, artistic merit still exists in the sense that a piece of art essentially will have to go through this new defence of public good and go through the two stages, and of course there is always the first question: does it serve the public good? That is in the committee records of September 25, 2003.

In the Sharpe case, the Supreme Court of Canada also briefly--

[Criminal Code, March 12th, 2004]

Mr. Speaker, I would ask the member if he would reflect on the part of the country that he comes from, the area of Winnipeg, Manitoba. In particular, has there been a sense of an increase of child pornography and so on in that area? Have there been greater concerns in the last number of years since he has served in public office? Would the member reflect on some of the comments from the Toronto police he alluded to and the concerns they have with respect to raising the age of consent? Could he confirm that this would be their express wish as well?

[Petitions, March 12th, 2004]

Mr. Speaker, I also present a petition in regard to the matter of child pornography. The petitioners draw to the attention of the House the fact that the creation and the use of child pornography is condemned by the clear majority of Canadians and that the courts have not applied the current child pornography law in a way which makes it clear that such exploitation of children will always be met with swift punishment.

Therefore the petitioners call upon Parliament to protect children by taking all necessary steps to ensure that all materials which promote or glorify pedophilia or sado-masochistic activities involving children be forthwith outlawed.

[Petitions, March 12th, 2004]

Mr. Speaker, I have a couple of other petitions, and with your indulgence I will quickly present them now.

In this petition, residents of Canada want to draw attention to the fact that there is a loophole in the Income Tax Act in that businesses in Canada are able to deduct from business income, for tax purposes, fines and penalties imposed upon them in respect to environmental laws, consumer protection laws, workplace safety laws, and so on.

They are calling upon Parliament to immediately enact legislation amending the Income Tax Act to prohibit the deduction of all fines and penalties from business income for tax purposes. They do not want those fines to be simply a cost of doing business.

[Petitions, March 12th, 2004]

Mr. Speaker, I have a whole stack of petitions here. The petitioners are calling upon Parliament to recognize in federal law the time honoured definition of marriage as the lifelong union of one man and one woman to the exclusion of all others.

The petitioners are from different parts of Canada and they add to the tens of thousands of signatures already tabled in the House about marriage, that most basic building block of society.

[Criminal Code, March 12th, 2004]

Mr. Speaker, does the member know, from media reports and other sources, whether in his part of the country there has been an escalation in that particular area?

As members of Parliament we want to represent and defend for the common good our own constituencies, the interests of people in our own back yard, so to speak. The member has been a hardworking member of Parliament coming up on seven years now. I would specifically like to know whether on his part of the horizon there has been an escalation. Is the need for this legislation now more serious, amended as suggested by the Conservative Party of Canada?

[Agriculture, March 11th, 2004]

Mr. Speaker, if a government is going to spend a billion dollars, it needs to make sure that the money is being spent wisely. It is shameful that the Liberals wasted a billion dollars on the Human Resources Development grants boondoggle, on an ill-conceived Liberal gun registry, and on a quarter-billion dollar Liberal slush fund where millions were paid out for a few minutes of work to Quebec ad agencies which in turn made large donations to the Liberal Party.

Unlike the Liberals, the Conservative Party of Canada would not fleece Canadian taxpayers through this kind of shameful waste and would instead direct money to where it is needed. A Conservative government would give the Liberals a lesson in how to spend a billion dollars that could actually be used to benefit a nation.

We would use a billion dollars to solve the farm income problem in Canada. We have released a specific Conservative Party action plan for agriculture. Family farms are in a crisis, and the food supply of Canadians is not something that a government should neglect. Canadians want their government to secure their food supply, pure and simple.

The Conservative Party understands how important agriculture is to this nation.

[Petitions, March 9th, 2004]

Mr. Speaker, I have some 500 signatures on a petition from people in my riding of Saskatoon—Wanuskewin. They call upon Parliament to support the time honoured heterosexual opposite sex definition of marriage.

The petitioners call upon Parliament to do all that it can to support that and uphold it in the days ahead.

[Contraventions Act, March 8th, 2004]

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the excellent questions.

My colleague from Prince George has done an excellent job in the criminal justice area. The member for Cypress Hills—Grasslands is an able colleague who works hard in respect to the agricultural issues and the Wheat Board. He is our question period coordinator as well. He is a capable member of Parliament. Both individuals could serve well in ministerial roles, were we to be on the government side.

Clearly the government would want to dodge a whole lot of discussions these days. Particularly it would want to divert things from the scams and scandals that have gone on in Quebec. That will be the focus. That is what the public is upset about. The government has lost the trust of the public and it wants to deal with stuff like this as a bit of a smokescreen, a diversion from the real issues that trouble people in this country.

Canadians have lost trust in the government. It cannot handle their tax dollars wisely and appropriately. Liberals are fighting each other. Now there is this diversionary tactic. We are coming up to an election and people need to have a clear understanding of what went on in terms of those lost hundreds of millions of dollars, and the HRDC and the gun registry boondoggles, all those billions of dollars. The government will plainly be held to account in the weeks ahead.