Mauril Bélanger

[Privilege, November 29th, 2004]

Mr. Speaker, not having had the chance to read the article of November 26 in the Fredericton Daily Gleaner , as mentioned by the member for New Brunswick Southwest, I will refrain from commenting on it. I will certainly look at it and if there are comments that have to be made, I will endeavour to make them to you.

In the meantime, if I may, no sour grapes whatsoever, I would like to on behalf of the government congratulate the member for his election. As the chair of the Canadian section of the Canada-U.S. Parliamentary Association, we are not contesting his election. I would perhaps encourage him not to be sour either on winning. That is quite an achievement.

As far as the conduct of the Deputy Speaker, I have not heard any complaints or comments from colleagues on this side of the House. I will endeavour to find out if there are, but we are not of a view to present any at this time. As far as we are concerned, there may or may not be quotes that are out of context. I am not sure that is at all relevant to the conduct and affairs of the Canada-U.S. Parliamentary Association and the result of the election it held last November 24.

[World Trade Organization, November 23rd, 2004]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has been consistent on this. He said that we would entertain Senate reform but in its entirety and not in a piecemeal manner. He is not the only one saying that. I hope the members opposite will take note that there are a number of commentators that have noted the same thing.

I refer to a recent study by Gordon Gibson who is well known in western Canada. He has been quite an ardent supporter of Senate reform for many years. He was particularly critical of the idea of appointing elected senators as an interim solution to fundamental Senate reform. In fact, he referred to this idea as a horror show. He noted that under current rules once senators were elected they would be able to serve until the age of 75 without ever standing for election again. That is in the Constitution.

More importantly, he also noted that the imbalance in the distribution of seats in the Senate would remain, and what he called the recipe for serious national discord. To say nothing of the institutional dysfunction that could result from having senators appointed via different methods.

It is for these reasons and many more that the Prime Minister has consistently argued against half measures and piecemeal reform. His arguments are sound.

[World Trade Organization, November 23rd, 2004]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to elaborate on the response given in answer to the question from the hon. member for Edmonton—Spruce Grove.

First of all, this is not a question of whether it is constitutionally possible for the Prime Minister to appoint senators that have been elected in provincial elections. No one questions whether the Prime Minister could do so if he wished. That is certainly his prerogative. However, constitutionality is not the only question here. There is a larger question on whether or not it is a good idea to appoint elected senators and thereby embark on a piecemeal path to Senate reform.

This brings me to a point that has been repeatedly made and that is the Prime Minister's position on Senate appointments. There have been a number of occasions over the past year, both before and after the recent federal election, where the Prime Minister was asked specifically about his position on the issue of appointing elected senators.

At a CBC public town hall meeting in Ottawa last February he was asked whether he would appoint senators elected in Alberta. The reply he gave then has been his consistent position on this matter. He supports Senate reform but not in a piecemeal fashion.

As the Prime Minister and others have noted, the method of appointment is only one aspect of the Senate. Fundamental reform would need to consider other matters, such as the distribution of seats among provinces and the Senate's role in Parliament. This type of reform cannot be done unilaterally. It will require a consensual approach with the provinces and we should let the Council of the Federation, which embarked to look at this under the leadership of the premiers of New Brunswick and British Columbia, time to carry out its work.

On September 8, following the cabinet retreat in Kelowna, the Prime Minister again was asked this question and again made it clear that pending an agreement on comprehensive reform, which someday we hope to see emerge, he intends to continue to make Senate appointments in the traditional fashion.

Last month, in correspondence to Premier Klein, the Prime Minister reiterated his view that piecemeal changes to one aspect of the Senate would not be an effective way of achieving meaningful reform. At the same time, he reaffirmed that the government remains willing to consider fundamental changes to the Senate should the provinces come forward with a consensual approach.

This brings us to last week, when once again the Prime Minister was clear in response to the Leader of the Opposition. The Prime Minister said:

I do not believe that doing Senate reform piecemeal would bring us the desired result. What it could quite well do is simply exacerbate a number of the problems. What I think we should do is look at Senate reform but look at it in its entirety.

The Prime Minister's position on this matter has been clear and consistent, and for good reason. Patchwork or scatter-gun reforms would cause more problems than they would solve.

[The Senate, November 18th, 2004]

Mr. Speaker, what the Prime Minister and the government has said repeatedly is that we are quite open to Senate reform but that it will not be piecemeal reform. The whole Senate has to be addressed. Until there is a consensus to do that, that will not happen.

[Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness Act, November 17th, 2004]

Madam Speaker, if you were to seek it, I think you would find unanimous consent to proceed immediately to the adjournment proceedings.

[The Senate, November 17th, 2004]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has indicated repeatedly that we are open to reform of the Senate, but we are not going to do it in a piecemeal manner. If we are to reform the Senate, it will be done entirely. For that, we need a consensus, a wide consensus across this country, which is obviously not present at the current time.

[Electoral Reform, November 15th, 2004]

Mr. Speaker, one of the issues that I suspect we will end up debating is indeed when the next election might be. Not knowing that, I cannot possibly commit to something like that. The government is serious in examining democratic renewal in our institutions, but before we engage in choosing solutions we have to be certain we have identified the problems and what is the root cause of those problems. Before we go off reinventing Parliament, which has stood us in good faith and in good strength, we should be very careful about how we engage in that exercise. We will be careful and we will move forward.

[Electoral Reform, November 15th, 2004]

Mr. Speaker, since taking office this government has demonstrated its commitment to democratic renewal. We have done so again in the Speech from the Throne. However, before we engage in any solutions we must be sure we identify the problems, and that is the process we are engaged in. I have consulted widely with the members of the opposition and with interested parties, and in due course we will come forward with our positions and our suggestions.

[National Defence, November 5th, 2004]

Mr. Speaker, the question is the same as the previous one put by the hon. member.

The government fully intends to respect the commitment made, namely to have the House vote on this issue in due course.

[National Defence, November 5th, 2004]

Mr. Speaker, the government's commitment, as reflected in the throne speech, is that, indeed, the House will have an opportunity to vote on this issue, and the government fully intends to respect this commitment.