Mike Sullivan

[Not Criminally Responsible Reform Act, April 26th, 2013]

Mr. Speaker, in general we support this change to the Criminal Code. We support it at least going to second reading. It deals with the very real and perceived threats to the public that come from the not criminally responsible declaration by judges.

I say “perceived threats”, because part of what is driving this attempt to amend the law is to play upon the fears of Canadians. We think that should be left out of the debate. The other side is very good at playing upon Canadians' fear of crime, and fears generally. However, we need to look at this legislation in a clear and thoughtful way.

We need to look at this legislation and determine whether it is achieving a good public policy goal. Is it achieving it in a way that will not be a burden on the public or the provinces or the victims of crime? That is one of the very serious concerns we have about this legislation; it may in fact be a burden on portions of the criminal justice system, including the provinces.

As a review of what the system is now, there is a very small percentage of accused, and I am not saying criminals, who are actually found not criminally responsible in the course of their trial. We are told it is something like one in 100,000 individuals who are accused—not members of the public, but accused—and found not criminally responsible. That is an extremely tiny percentage. The Conservatives are spending a lot of time and effort in dealing with some perceived notions, some of which were created by recent events in the news and some of which are just general fears by Canadians. That very small percentage needs to be brought to the attention of both sides of the House.

By the way, Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time.

There are two basic definitions for individuals who are accused. Sometimes they are found unfit to stand trial, in which case we wait until they are fit to stand trial. Once they are at trial, if that individual was not criminally responsible by reason of a mental disorder at the time of committing the crime, that person can be, and sometimes is, declared not criminally responsible at the time of committing a crime. Therefore, rather than a prosecution, they are shifted into the mental health system.

The mental health system includes a review board. It includes judges. It includes mental health professionals. The mental health system, the review board and the judges determine when a person is not criminally responsible, at what point that individual is no longer a threat to society. If they are no longer a threat to society, at that point they can be given either a conditional or an actual discharge. They can also be sent to hospital, to be held and restrained in hospital, like a jail. We are aware of lots of them. It is those individuals the bill is attempting to deal with.

As I said, only one in 100,000 accused are actually not criminally responsible, and a smaller percentage are those individuals who end up in a hospital setting or in a mental health process.

The changes that are being proposed are by and large welcome, but they need discussion and analysis. We need the mental health and the criminal justice professionals in this country to advise us on whether these provisions would create unintended consequences or injustices in the system.

For example, one of the changes is that the review board must now move its analysis of not criminally responsible individuals and take public safety as their paramount consideration.

Is that a good thing, or is it now skewing, changing, or putting fetters, as the member for Edmonton—Strathcona said earlier, on the justice system? Is it in fact restricting the ability of an individual judge or the review board to consider matters fairly and reasonably?

We need more counsel. We need more advice from both the criminal justice system and the medical profession as to whether or not that is going to change the outcomes in a meaningful way that is more protective of the public. I do not know the answer to that question; it certainly sounds like it on the face of it, but maybe that change will in fact cause other problems.

The bigger change to this bill is the creation of a definition of “high risk”, which will now add to the panoply of definitions by which a significant threat to the safety of the public could be attached to an individual. Again, what is the purpose of this change? What is the end result of that change? It may be a good thing, but we need more advice, more counsel, and we need not to do it from a surfeit of fear.

We need to not take this new definition out of the context of what this law is attempting to provide in the first place. It is attempting to provide a system that not only protects the public generally but also provides the mechanisms and means to rehabilitate.

For criminals in the criminal justice system who are not found to be not criminally responsible—in other words, those who are criminally responsible—the purpose of the justice system is to make them into better citizens, but we find that the recidivism rate amongst those who are in that system is between 41% and 44%, so we are not doing a very good job of protecting the public with the regular criminal justice system.

In the not criminally responsible justice system, the recidivism rate is around 2.5% to 3%, so we are doing a good job there. We are finding that if individuals with a mental disorder are properly treated, those individuals can return to be productive members of Canadian society, which is what we ultimately want.

We need to examine both halves of the justice system, and whether or not we are actually doing a good job in it.

The third major part of this legislation is to indicate that victims are now to be a major part of the regime. The victims themselves have already suffered at the hands of the perpetrator, at the hands of the person not criminally responsible. With good intent, we are asking that the victims be notified when those individuals are discharged. The individuals who are being discharged could have a non-communication order attached to them if they are not allowed to deal with the victims. In addition, the safety of the victims needs to be taken into account when a decision is made about the release of an individual back into the public.

We think that portion of the bill needs a lot of attention. We agree that victims are by far the paramount consideration in any justice system legislation, but we do not spend enough time now looking after victims. I doubt that there is enough time, effort and money in the mental health resources of the provinces to give the victims of serious crime the help they need in getting over it. We should be looking at that as well.

We also understand that this is a very difficult issue for victims. What if victims do not want to have any reminders whatsoever of this individual? Do we put them in an awkward position of having to say “No, I do not want to be reminded”? They would actually have to be asked if they wanted to be reminded, and then they have to refuse to be reminded.

It is a very difficult position for the victims to be in. The victims would be in a position where they were not necessarily receiving the appropriate attention and help from the provincial medical system, but those victims would be asked for their opinion on this, and it might in fact be difficult for them.

[Employment Insurance, April 25th, 2013]

Mr. Speaker, even in that answer, the member did not respond to my original question, which was this: How is it that people are to rely on the website, when the website's information is completely inaccurate and does not provide claimants with the information?

Also, she did not answer to the issue of how people get to Service Canada, when a requirement is that claimants access it in person or by telephone and they cannot find an office and the telephone wait, if they hang up or are on hold, is a day long, which is wasting their time, time they should be out looking for work. How is that serving Canadians?

The individuals who used to have access to the Internet through the community access program no longer have that access. Therefore, saying that they can get that information on the Internet is misleading, if the information is wrong. It is delaying, if it is the only way they can access the information, and it is not accurate.

[Employment Insurance, April 25th, 2013]

Mr. Speaker, the minister's answer in February did not address the question I posed, which was why Service Canada was unable to accurately inform the public on its website. A closed office, the only office in my riding, was still listed as open and the hours for another office were off by a full day. The minister's facile answer was to repeat that Canadians could use the website to get information. It is a joke.

When the minister is questioned about office closures and staff reductions, her response is always, the Internet, the Internet. Well if the Internet is not accurate, what use is it? There are many disabled individuals in my riding of York South—Weston and when the local office closes and they must travel farther, it is another burden on an already stressed individual. To tell them to use the Internet, when the Conservatives have cancelled the community access program that provided Internet access to disabled individuals, adds insult to injury.

Do not get me started on using the telephone service. If individuals are not hung up on by a message saying “please try again later”, constituents wait for hours on hold. Whole days have been wasted on hold. Often, speaking with an agent is, according to Service Canada, the only way to deal with a situation and in person is best, but not possible when the office is closed. Waiting on hold means the person is not looking for work. Does this mean he or she will be cut off EI if they state on the form that they could not look for work that day because they were on hold with EI? It might.

Disabled individuals face a double jeopardy. Not only is it more difficult for them to access the Internet, but it takes statistically longer for disabled individuals to find a job. No allowance has been made for disabled individuals in the new regulations that force individuals to take a 30% cut in pay if they cannot find work fast enough.

The EI system should be available to all Canadians, regardless of where they live. If the government insists that web access is the preferred means of communicating with Service Canada, then provide Internet access to those who need it, in remote communities, and to those whose means or disability makes it impossible to otherwise access.

Make the Internet services accurate. They are not. When something as simple as whether an office is open or not is wrong, it smacks of incompetence by the persons running the all-important websites, and ultimately the responsibility falls on the minister's shoulders.

If those running the EI system insist on personal visits or telephone conversations, do not waste whole days of claimants' time by having insufficient staff to answer those calls. Or, provide another means, perhaps using that selfsame Internet to create the communications link between the claimant and EI.

Cuts in staffing for telephone access and closure of offices mean huge inefficiencies for claimants. The minister should not glibly suggest using the Internet when for some individuals it is too expensive or not possible. When some of the Service Canada requirements are in person or on the phone, make sure that claimants can easily access the offices or the telephone system. To do otherwise means she is failing Canadians.

[Combating Terrorism Act, April 22nd, 2013]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my friend from Timmins—James Bay for putting so plainly and bluntly in front of Canadians today the fact that there is a party here that would like to defend the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and article 9 that says that “everyone has the right not to be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned”. This legislation would change that right for innocent people. They would no longer have the right to say that the charter will protect them. This party defends the charter. The party to my right might have put the charter in, but that was a different Trudeau and a different party.

Would my friend like to comment?

[Combating Terrorism Act, April 22nd, 2013]

Mr. Speaker, the notion that this bill is somehow defending us against terrorism is counteracted by the events that were referred to today by the member for Winnipeg North, who pointed out that the police had successfully stopped a terrorist attack without Bill S-7 in place, and that has been the case all along.

The very essence of terrorism is to make people feel afraid. Part of what is happening here is the government is trying to make people feel afraid and feel that they should have their liberties removed to allow the government to take more control over their lives to defend them against something that apparently the police have already been doing without this new law.

Could the member comment further on that?

[Combating Terrorism Act, April 22nd, 2013]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his excellent speech. I want to ask him about the notion of the loss of our own human rights as a result of this bill in that innocent individuals can be imprisoned even if they are not being investigated by the police and have absolutely no connection whatsoever to terrorism or a terrorist act other than that they are related to or are a friend of someone who is.

Mr. Diefenbaker would be rolling over in his grave if he knew that pretenders to his party were in fact trying to put something forward that would remove such a basic human right.

Could the member comment further on that?

[Petitions, April 22nd, 2013]

Mr. Speaker, I have a petition signed by many of my constituents concerning genetically engineered alfalfa. They note that this genetically engineered alfalfa requires variety registration before it can be legally sold as seed in Canada, but it has already been approved for human consumption and environmental release. It has been planted in test plots.

Unwanted contamination from genetically engineered alfalfa is inevitable, especially because alfalfa is pollinated by bees. Such contamination will threaten organic farming systems and the ability of both organic and conventional farmers to sell alfalfa and related products in domestic and international markets, resulting in lost or uncertain markets and low prices, new costs for testing and cleanup, and the possible loss of farm-saved seed.

Organic farming prohibits the use of genetic engineering, and the organic sector in Canada depends on alfalfa as a high-protein feed for dairy cattle and other livestock and as an important soil builder. They call upon Parliament—

[Combating Terrorism Act, April 22nd, 2013]

Mr. Speaker, the importation of illegal handguns is a serious and pressing problem in my riding and in the city of Toronto. There was a bank robbery just yesterday, which was probably with illegally imported handguns, because just about all of them are. Two individuals were shot during the bank robbery in Toronto, in my riding. That kind of thing needs to be prevented. The importation of illegal guns needs to be prevented. Cutting the budget for border services officers is not the way to prevent illegal guns from coming to Toronto.

[Combating Terrorism Act, April 22nd, 2013]

Mr. Speaker, I stated earlier that the timing is somewhat suspect. No one in the House, least of all the NDP, suggests that what happened in Boston is not something we should pay very close attention to and be very concerned about. Our hearts, thoughts, and prayers go out to the individuals who were affected by what must have been a very difficult, trying, and frightening time.

The bill has been sitting in limbo for the past four months. For the government to suddenly decide to bring it forward today smacks of some political opportunism, if ever I saw it.

[Combating Terrorism Act, April 22nd, 2013]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his position in committee, having had the ability to actually hear from the government what it intends. What it intends very clearly is that the scope of preventative detention and recognizance provisions of this bill are intended to cover a very wide scope of individuals. It may be a stretch to suggest that somebody in Moose Jaw would be held in prison as a result of being related to somebody who was, in fact, the subject of a terrorism investigation, but that is precisely what the bill would permit and that is precisely why the NDP had suggested the bill goes to far.