Paul Martin

[Member for Newton—North Delta, June 1st, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, the member for Newton--North Delta called to say that he was interested in crossing the floor. I essentially said to members of the government and my staff that they could pursue discussions but that under no circumstances could any offer be made, and no offer was made.

Clearly, if the hon. member had indicated that he was prepared to cross the floor under those conditions, obviously anybody would meet with somebody who was interested in crossing the floor.

The fundamental fact is that no offer was made, no request was accepted and under those circumstances--

[Member for Newton—North Delta, May 31st, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, obviously the government will provide the RCMP any information it requires. I would hope that if the leader of the NDP has any such information, he would provide it.

What I find most surprising is that the Leader of the Opposition seems to imply that Canada is a police state, that in fact we will dictate to the RCMP what it should do. That is not the way it works. It would be most improper if the government were to tell the RCMP to initiate an investigation. It should be provided with the information and then an independent decision of the RCMP is taken on whether or not to act.

[Member for Newton—North Delta, May 31st, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, I am a little surprised that the NDP leader would not know about the ethics involved in all this. The government does not have the right to give instructions to the RCMP. It can provide information, as any individual can, but the decision to act on this information rests with the RCMP.

[Member for Newton—North Delta, May 31st, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, once again, I would ask the leader of the Bloc Québécois to just take a look at what Mr. Kalia said. He was the third party, between the member and the government. Mr. Kalia said that no offer was made by the government, that the member was the one who made demands, which were refused outright.

[Member for Newton—North Delta, May 31st, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, if I did not hear the tape, it is because I do not have it.

[Member for Newton—Delta North, May 31st, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, I have already said that I have not heard the tapes.

What I have done is read the transcript from the third party who was asked by the member to set up the meeting. I have also talked to the ministers of the government and the statement is absolutely clear that no offer was made, that an offer was solicited. No offer was made and that is the truth.

[Member for Newton—Delta North, May 31st, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, the third party, who was asked by the member for Newton—North Delta to set up the meeting, said that Mr. Kalia called the member's version of the events totally false. He said:

He gave me a few demands (about) what he's looking for... He's looking for his wife...(to get) a Senate post or UNO representation and himself in cabinet.

The third party said that the member's version was totally false.

[Member for Newton—Delta North, May 31st, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, how does the opposition explain that Mr. Sudesh Kalia, who describes himself as a friend of Mr. Grewal and who was the intermediary, said that Mr. Grewal asked him, according to the paper, to set up the meeting?

[Member for Newton—Delta North, May 31st, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, both statements are untrue.

First, yesterday in the House I said that when the member approached the government, I was obviously informed. Second, at no time, however, did I ever say that I would meet with the hon. member. In fact, if one looks at the newspapers, they have said that the hon. member's story is totally false.

[Member for Newton—North Delta, May 30th, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, the leader of the NDP knows full well that it is not up to the government to initiate an investigation by the RCMP. The fact is that those tapes are in the possession of a member of this House. One would hope that the member will make those tapes public.