Peter MacKay

[Afghanistan, November 30th, 2009]

Mr. Speaker, two and a half years ago, when we improved the failed transfer arrangement, we started to invest in its justice system and in its prison system. We improved the mentoring that was taking place, with respect to transfer detainees. We improved the investments around the conditions within the Afghan prison system. That is concrete action.

What the member opposite now is trying to do is confuse Canadians by suggesting, in this chamber, that they do support the diplomats and the military, while outside the chamber they are saying something totally different to try to cast aspersions on the advice that the government took from those same officials. We have been consistent—

[Afghanistan, November 30th, 2009]

Mr. Speaker, what I can say is the members opposite cannot have it both ways. They cannot accept the testimony and the evidence of senior public servants, of long-serving members of the Canadian Forces in charge of the Canadian mission in Afghanistan and then accuse the government of not accepting that same evidence to make its decisions.

That is the hypocrisy coming from the member opposite and members of the opposition, They are now trying to hug the Canadian Forces outside the chamber, while coming in here and casting aspersions on the job they are doing in this mission.

[Afghanistan, November 27th, 2009]

Mr. Speaker, let us take a direct look at that statement just made.

Here is what Mr. Mulroney actually said: “We never, ever transferred anyone if we thought there was a substantial risk of torture”. The member has made a complete misstatement of fact.

He said, “We knew that there were problems in the Afghan system, but we developed a robust monitoring system”.

Those are the words of an individual closest to the mission, in the best position to make these assessments.

He continued, “I didn't agree with his assertion that everybody who went into the NDS was tortured, that the detainees were all farmers or probably all innocent. This is where I think he went from an observation to speculation”.

Those are the words of Mr. Mulroney in his testimony yesterday.

[Afghanistan, November 27th, 2009]

Mr. Speaker, we have provided and will continue to provide all legally available information.

Let us be clear. As part of the preparations to testify in hearings before the parliamentary committee, individuals like Generals Hillier and Gauthier, recently retired, as well as currently serving General Fraser were provided documents relevant to the issues being discussed at the parliamentary committee, as were Mr. Colvin and Mr. David Mulroney.

It is common practice for current and former public servants to be given information to which they are privy to give testimony before the parliamentary committee. It is the normal practice that we follow.

[Afghanistan, November 27th, 2009]

Mr. Speaker, are the hon. member and opposition members trying to politicize the issue and cast political aspersions?

Let us go back to what Mr. Mulroney said: “I think there was very widespread and incredible understanding that there were a lot of problems in the Afghan justice system and Afghan prisons with Afghan police, as there were many problems throughout the Afghan” justice system. That is why we acted. He went on to say, “We talked to people who made allegations of abuse, which we reported to the authorities, but what is important to note is that these were not, to our knowledge, Canadian-transferred detainees”.

That is the crux of the issue.

[Afghanistan, November 27th, 2009]

Mr. Speaker, two and a half years ago when we fixed the flawed, inadequate arrangement left by the government opposite, we then went about investing in and improving the Afghan justice system. Nobody has ever said there were not any problems.

Let us look at what Mr. David Mulroney had to say, not the partisan attacks, not an attempt to politicize the issue. Here is what he said: “I can say we have no evidence that any Canadian transfer of detainees was mistreated.... We never, ever transferred anyone if we thought there was a substantial risk of torture. We knew there were problems in the Afghan system, but we developed a robust monitoring system”.

Those are the words of a respected diplomat doing the work, not partisan--

[Afghanistan, November 26th, 2009]

Mr. Speaker, clearly she does not know. That is a question she may have for herself.

Here is what General Hillier had to say about the reports, “nothing about abuse, nothing about torture or anything else that would have caught my attention or indeed the attention of others”.

These are generals, highly respected leaders in the Canadian Forces, on the ground during the period in question, who have cast serious doubt over the allegations of one individual who has given testimony.

Let us wait for others, like the generals yesterday, to have a full picture of what took place during the period in question, not the partisan attacks, not the righteous indignation, not the feigned concern of the member opposite.

[Afghanistan, November 26th, 2009]

Mr. Speaker, I guess the obvious question is, was it a Canadian transferred detainee? That would be the question I would have.

We would certainly have general concerns, as we did, which is why we acted, why we invested in the prison system, why we began to train prison officials and police, and why we invested in the physical infrastructure. One hundred thirty-two million taxpayer dollars went into improving that situation. That is how seriously we took it.

Let us look at it. We did not base our actions upon people making statements like all detainees were tortured. How ludicrous a statement is that from one single individual who really had no knowledge to be able to say something like that?

We believe General Hillier, not the member opposite.

[Afghanistan, November 26th, 2009]

Mr. Speaker, this matter is being aired in a parliamentary committee. It was heard by the Military Police Complaints Commission until it was shut down by the chair. There have been other arm's-length bodies that have also looked at the issue.

With respect to the highly sought after reports, this is what General Hillier had to say. The allegations that officials turned a blind eye to torture are “ludicrous” and “absolutely untrue”.

Those are the words of a high-ranking general.

There was “nothing about abuse, nothing about torture or anything else that would have caught my attention or indeed the attention of others” in those reports.

This again is from a trusted general, not a partisan opposition.

[Afghanistan, November 26th, 2009]

Mr. Speaker, I cannot help the hon. member if he feels he is in the dark.

Just yesterday, the committee passed a motion asking that legally available information be tabled. That will happen. The committee passed a motion seeking those documents. As would be expected on issues that involve national security and sensitive information that could affect troops in the field, it will be looked at as far as the Canada Evidence Act and National Defence Act are concerned, always keeping national security front and centre.