Peter MacKay

[Privacy, June 12th, 2013]

Mr. Speaker, let me repeat for the hon. member and members present that CSEC is in fact prohibited by law from directing its activities at Canadians anywhere in the world or any person in Canada.

I again refer the member to the same report, wherein the commissioner of CSEC says, “I found the new policies and procedures to be comprehensive, containing satisfactory measures to protect the privacy of Canadians”. This same commissioner is meeting with the Privacy Commissioner tomorrow. The report is there. It is tabled annually in Parliament. I invite the member to take the time to read it.

[Privacy, June 12th, 2013]

Mr. Speaker, let me answer the hon. member's question on who is watching the watchers: the CSE Commissioner, the Privacy Commissioner, the Auditor General. All of them have given CSE a clean bill of health.

I would refer my hon. friend to the report tabled in Parliament, which speaks to the practices and process that are followed by this important organization. Let us not lose sight of what it does. What it does is protect Canadians. It does so in accordance with the law; it does so when it comes to the gathering of foreign intelligence which is actually a threat to this country.

[Prohibiting Cluster Munitions Act, June 11th, 2013]

Mr. Speaker, he has just said himself that he is not sure why there is urgency around this bill.

I would ask the member to read the bill and see the impact that this bill would have. I would like him to see the ability, the enabling of our country to move forward on legislation that represents Canada's effort going back to 2008. They say the bill has only been here for six months. The effort has been ongoing for years. I would suggest that the need has been around for decades, if not centuries. This type of indiscriminate cluster munitions could have devastating impact. Why would we want to have this kind of procedural wrangling?

He says we do not know what the opposition's position is going to be. We have heard clearly from members of the opposition in the last 30 minutes about their position. They want to pursue the perfect. They want to bring about amendments. They want to have further debate.

Let us wrap it up. Let us get it done. Let us pass the bill.

[Prohibiting Cluster Munitions Act, June 11th, 2013]

Mr. Speaker, there is an individual who seems to represent his constituents and the electoral constituency of Peterborough with clarity. He has a thoughtful approach that says, “Let's get things done. Let's show our ability to actually demonstrate action and leadership in the House of Commons”.

In the last days of the House, I would suggest it would be very fitting to say to the world, “Look at what we have done on such an important issue”. The Canadians Forces will similarly act. We are already taking steps, as I said earlier, to ensure that cluster munitions are in fact out of harm's way, out of the ability to be put to use. It is a Senate bill, of course, but it is here in our House of Commons. “Wake up and smell the thing”, as my friend would say.

The legislation would preserve Canada's ability to work alongside our allies. It is legislation that would prohibit all forms and possession of cluster munitions, including stockpiling, as I mentioned before.

As a result of this and other actions we would take, the Canadian Forces would make it a policy to prohibit its members from using cluster munitions, including our members serving on exchange with allied armed forces. However, we have taken practical steps to protect interoperability and not stand in the way of our ongoing efforts. As we have seen in Afghanistan to date, we have the ability to work shoulder-to-shoulder with our allies in the completion and the work that is being done on behalf of Canadians who help bring about peace and stability in many of these forlorn countries.

[Prohibiting Cluster Munitions Act, June 11th, 2013]

Mr. Speaker, we see from that member the usual grandstanding, waving of his arms, the dramatic presentation that he so often brings to the House, the stepping into the aisle as if he is somehow being provocative and cool.

Canadians want to see actual results. They want to see legislation. They want to see their laws. They want to see their government. They want to see programs and projects advance. They do not want to hear endless debate.

The member says we have only had 10 minutes; the reality is that we have had since 2008. I do not know where the member was in 2008, but I can tell the House, as a minister in the government, that we knew then as we know now, that what is required is action. We do not require endless debate, the flapping of the gums, as the member is doing right now, and shaking his bushy head and showing what a cool guy he is. Canadians want action. They want to see movement. They want to see implementation. Canadians do not want to hear this wrangling and members suggesting that the government is offside with the international community.

We are now stepping in line with our colleagues and allies and trying to bring other countries to the position where we can ratify the convention, where we can start removing land mines and munitions from the ground that risk the lives of children. That member's blowhard talk over there is not going to save children. Moving on this legislation will.

[Prohibiting Cluster Munitions Act, June 11th, 2013]

Mr. Speaker, the member asks what took so long. We are standing here ready to make it happen, and as usual the member and his party want to block progress. They want to stand in the way of progress. They throw up their hands and say “it is not perfect” or “somehow it could be better”. For want of a nail, a shoe was lost. For want of a shoe, a horse was lost. For want of a horse, a soldier was lost, a war, a continent. This is the classic NDP position. They want to hold up progress and seek the perfect, which may never come.

[Prohibiting Cluster Munitions Act, June 11th, 2013]

Mr. Speaker, I would repeat that this legislation meets our obligations. This legislation would allow us to now ratify, as opposed to being on the sidelines and talking about it, as the NDP like to do incessantly.

We want to demonstrate action, movement forward, and progress. We embarked on this process in 2008.

[Prohibiting Cluster Munitions Act, June 11th, 2013]

Mr. Speaker, I would not for a moment suggest that the hon. member's views on this important issue are somehow invalid or would not contribute to its improvement.

However, again, this legislation is now at a place before the House where we can move forward on an international convention that dates back to 2008. This is an occasion in which action, not words, is needed.

The legislation is not perfect. I have said that. Most bills that come before the House are not in a perfect form, yet here we have broad support. There are NGOs that are very much in favour of the legislation, calling on the government and the Parliament of Canada to move forward and allow us to ratify it and live up to our obligations. We have taken substantial steps to do that.

Again, I repeat that Canada has an opportunity to demonstrate continued leadership in the world, to show a forward-leaning attitude when it comes to an issue as important as the ban on land mines. I would suggest that gives us the moral authority to then approach many of our allies, who have not taken the steps that Canada has and who have not moved forward in demonstrating the same type of forward-leaning attitude.

We can say definitively to them that we have passed legislation in our country, that we have taken concrete action in moving forward with our own obligations and that we encourage them, our friends and allies, to do the same.

[Prohibiting Cluster Munitions Act, June 11th, 2013]

Oh, the member is no longer here.

In any event, the real issue is very much how we can progress on an issue as important as this and to move legislation. While it is not perfect, there are issues that could be taken with any bill on any issue. However, the reality is that we have an opportunity with this legislation that has received scrutiny in the other place, that has followed the process of legislation that comes from the Senate and that presents the opportunity to the House to move this bill forward.

We are proud of the negotiations in which Canada took part in the early days to bring about Canada's compliance and position. To remind the House, practically speaking this legislation would prohibit all possession of cluster munitions, including the stockpiling of any munitions in Canada, or cluster munitions belonging to states that are not parties to the convention.

This is a prohibition across the country that would bring Canada in line with its international partners. We do have cluster munitions, which we are now in the process of disposing. I will state for emphasis that we have not used them operationally. We have destroyed most of the stockpiles already. We are in the process of exploring the options to dispose of these final stockpiles. Practically speaking, we are well down the road when it comes to Canada's compliance.

[Prohibiting Cluster Munitions Act, June 11th, 2013]

Mr. Speaker, I sense some degree of frustration on the part of the member. He stated that this is not the issue. The issue is in fact moving this legislation forward.

We feel it is a priority for our government. We feel that we need continued efforts, consistent with Canada's principled position on the world stage, to play an important role when it comes to the banning of munitions and the demining issue that Canada championed some years ago, one in which his party played an important role—