Peter MacKay

[Immigration, June 8th, 1998]

Mr. Speaker, on April 30, 1998 the minister of immigration released a report on the number of ministerial permits issued in the year 1997. Of 4,059 ministerial permits issued, 37% were for individuals who were criminally inadmissible to Canada, 395 of the permits were issued for individuals who had committed serious offences including assault, sexual assault, and 79 had committed those offences within the last five years.

Can the minister explain why it is her government is assisting criminals to enter the country when we should be trying to keep them out?

[Supply, June 8th, 1998]

Madam Speaker, I listened with great interest to the remarks of the previous speaker and to the to and fro that went on between himself and the hon. government member. I cannot help but hearken back to the debate we had a short time ago on Bill C-37, the Judges Act. Again we saw quite a vitriolic and sometimes personal attack on judges themselves. So I worry that we digress in this debate.

Once again we have a motion before the House which has a very narrow topic, and yet Reform has chosen to broaden this issue. It has taken a great, sweeping, alarmist approach to this issue.

Instead of taking the wrecking ball, attacking the judiciary and telling Canadians that somehow this decision will cause democracy to fall, what would the Reform Party put in place? What would it suggest we do when it comes to limiting judges in their task? Rather than suggesting we should tear that down, I wonder what the Reform Party would put in its place.

[Supply, June 8th, 1998]

Madam Speaker, I will be quite clear and unequivocal. We have taken the position that we are not encouraging the government to appeal this decision.

I have read the decision. I totally agree with the commentary and the remarks of the deciding judges. We feel this issue has been settled for all intents and purposes. Therefore we are not urging the government to appeal and we are not supporting this motion.

[Supply, June 8th, 1998]

Madam Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague from the Bloc for recognizing the contributions to the cause of justice the Conservative Party has made in the past.

We certainly have a great deal to be proud of in that regard. We continue to strive to make positive contributions to changes in the law that will further the cause of justice and ensure the underpinnings of our justice system do not discriminate.

The Haig decision the hon. member mentioned was an important one. The minister of justice at the time, Kim Campbell, did further the cause of justice as did other members of that government.

I am certainly encouraged by the remarks I have heard on the floor with respect to the Rosenberg decision. I do not feel in any way the government will be mandating that its agents appeal this decision. That choice will be made independent of the remarks and the discussion taking place here. This is certainly not to say that this is not a place for this type of discussion. However we have to maintain judicial independence from the judiciary. The legislative arm must do its job to legislate.

I encourage the remarks and acknowledge the hon. member's interest in this issue. I thank him for that question.

[Supply, June 8th, 1998]

Madam Speaker, it is with some reluctance that I rise to speak to this motion brought forward by the Reform Party.

It appears we are debating issues that have been with us for time immemorial. We are talking about basics here, of how the judiciary and the legislative body operate independent of one another.

The hon. member for Calgary Centre in his motion appears to have overlooked some of the very basics that we learned in politics 101. What we are talking about is a demonstration of a profound understanding of the basic principles of democracy. Today we are spending valuable time discussing and perhaps reinforming the Reform Party about the basic principles of democracy. I would have preferred spending precious time in the House debating more constructive issues.

Our democracy, I think we can all agree, is not perfect by any means but is one of the best democracies in the world. One of the reasons why our democracy is so well respected and so envied by the world is that it lays upon some of the very strong rules of law, that the executive, the judiciary and the legislative powers are separate and independent of one another.

If politicians were to have significantly more power than the judiciary and be in a position to at their whim and at the drop of a hat reverse legal decisions, we would live in potential chaos. There are checks and balances intrinsic to the system if the system is to work.

If Reformers were in power, if they had their way, politicians would live by the stories of the day. We would be twisting in the wind. Every time a certain issue arose we would stampede to correct that and we would try to do exactly what the media told us.

We cannot live by polls. There has to be a measured, tempered response when the need arises. We cannot be reactionary. The word rhetoric is used constantly in this place. We do not hear any more rhetoric than from the Reform Party. That does not further the national agenda.

If legislative power is there to legislate, then the judiciary is surely there to make sure the laws are going to be respected. Judges are also there to make sure laws passed by parliamentarians are respected. This is part of the highest court in the land, certainly, but the Constitution and the charter of rights also have to be respected. Sometimes it comes to being, perhaps wittingly, perhaps unwittingly, that these are infringed by legislation that has been passed at some time in the past or perhaps something that comes out as recently as today.

All this may appear quite dry to those who are at home listening, but there is a need to revisit some of these fundamental issues. Revisiting them will sometimes help to redefine the positions and tell us the reality of the present system. If we are to embark on changing the course of moral values we should do so in a very circumspect way.

Before going any further I want to make sure we are going to be discussing this issue in a serious way. The Reform motion has been brought to the floor without this understanding that needs to be in place. The member for Calgary Centre has, for all intents and purposes, told the House of Commons that we should automatically appeal this decisions from the Ontario Court of Appeal. We cannot mandate a court to do that. That is not our place. That is completely outside the bounds of what we should be doing. What is the Rosenberg case about? It is simply about the definition of a spouse. It relates to the Income Tax Act and pension registration, a rather specific, on the point scenario. Once again we have seen the Reform Party take a specific factual scenario and try to impose broad sweeping implications from it. That is simply improper.

This litigation arose from the result of Revenue Canada's inability to accept and register amendments that would extend survivor benefit entitlement to same sex spouses.

Let us not read too much into that. Let us not react too harshly. Let us not go over the top at the first instance. The Attorney General of Canada concedes that the extension of benefits was discriminatory on the grounds of sexual orientation but pleaded that the inequality was reasonable and demonstrably justified in section 1 of the charter, the saved by one provision, that the infringing limitation, the exclusion of cohabitating gay and lesbian partners of contributing employees of the Income Tax Act, has a pressing and substantive objective. That was what was being discussed by the court.

The Ontario Court of Appeal was unanimous in its decision:

Differences in cohabitation and gender preferences are a reality to be equitably acknowledged, not an indulgence to be economically penalized.

These are telling, straightforward words. People have to be treated equally based on their choices, human understanding, treating people equally under the law. This is what Canadian law is all about.

Basically there is no rational reason to deprive a gay or lesbian employee of the same choice that a heterosexual employee would have, both as to beneficiary and as to relationship. I quote again from the judgment:

Aging and retirement are not unique to heterosexuals and there is nothing about being heterosexual that warrants the government's preferential attention to the possibility of economic insecurity. It cannot therefore be a pressing and substantial objective to single out for exclusive recognition, the income protection of those older Canadians whose sexual preferences are heterosexual.

It is talking about not distinguishing one sexual preference from another in the legislation. That is all.

A final quote:

It is difficult to see a rational connection between protecting heterosexual spouses from income security on the death of their partner and denying cohabitating gay and lesbian partners the same protection. The sexual orientation of surviving partners can in no way be seen as any more relevant to whether they should be entitled to income protection their partners have paid for, than would be their race, colour, or ethnicity.

Those appear to me to be very straightforward principles with which everyone in this House should agree and should embrace.

Contrary to what the Reform Party has tried to read into this decision, it is quite clear that it has nothing to do with the definition of family. This case is specific. It deals only with the exclusion of same sex benefits and it is a question of discrimination based on sexual orientation for economic purposes.

This is not a broad sweeping decision that is made to undercut the definition of family. Whoever says it speaks to the question of family or the definition of family is wrong.

Like everyone in this House, I strongly agree that the family is something that must be preserved in society. It is a value that must be recognized and respected and I do not believe that this decision goes in any way toward changing that. Again, there is no link between sexual orientation on a prohibited ground of discrimination and an attempt to undermine this concept of family.

Members of the Reform Party believe that the change in the definition of spouse would automatically lead to some recognition of same sex marriages. That is simply not the case here. I personally do not wish that to happen. However, the best proof that this is not even being contemplated is that we have seven provinces and one territory that have human rights codes prohibiting discrimination based on sexual orientation. Not a single one has recognized same sex marriages.

I do not believe this decision will lead to a legal recognition of same sex marriages. This decision is not talking about in any way redefining family or marriages. They are totally separate issues.

What is important in our society is not whether one is heterosexual or homosexual, whether one is polygamous or abstinent. It is whether one is able to lead a quality of life and the law is there to protect people and ensure that they do have the same entitlement to that quality of life. It does not matter what one's choice is on this issue. It has to be one of personal choice and there has to be respect and tolerance for that.

Some legislative conditions have to be put in place and some legislative conditions may have to be changed as a result of changing mores. However this does not mean that anyone of us is obliged to promote homosexuality. That is not what the debate is about, but there is a difference between promoting and respecting human rights.

The Rosenberg case is about human rights and making sure that there is not discrimination in our existing laws. Discrimination is treating people differently or giving them different benefits or not entitling them to benefits because of some choice.

Section 252(4) of the Income Tax Act was discriminatory. I believe it was a good decision of the Ontario Court of Appeal which corrected that. We are not here to perpetrate discrimination. That is not the purpose of this place and therefore the choice is not ours to make. The choice has been made.

[Commissioner For The Rights Of Victims Of Crime, June 8th, 1998]

Madam Speaker, I am encouraged by the remarks of my colleagues on both sides of the House. I have some concern for the comments expressed by the parliamentary secretary. We do certainly bring this motion forward in good faith.

There is certainly a spirit of co-operation that is existing now within the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights. Although the issue of victims generally is before the committee, this motion was brought forward at a time when there was not a certain date. Certainly there was no attempt by anyone to do work that would be duplicitous. This motion is simply an opportunity to express on behalf of the House that this is an intention this House has, that we want to see brought forward within our justice system an office that would officially recognize and be designated with the task of improving the participation of victims within our current justice system.

The issue is going to be discussed on a national forum level in the coming week. As has been suggested, this will be an opportunity for those major stakeholders, those players within our justice system, to speak at this forum. They will have the opportunity to speak to the minister herself, to speak to members of the department who hopefully will be charged with the task of drafting a victims bill of rights or tasked with the setting up of an office similar to that which is proposed in this motion.

I do take the hon. member's comments to heart that there has been an expression by the minister. I am very encouraged by that and I think all members of the House should be encouraged by that expression. The only comment or reservation I have about hearing that is that time is running. There has been an opportunity placed before the House to express that we want to see this happen. We want to see it done, to use the minister's own words, in a timely fashion. We hope that this is going to occur.

Victims across the country are going to be encouraged. They will look at this as an initiative that will allow them fuller participation, a greater voice. Through this forum they will be given an opportunity to communicate directly with the minister and those in her department who will hopefully bring these types of legislative changes to the forefront in the very near future.

I appreciate the opportunity I have been given this morning to discuss this issue. I take to heart the comments of members on both sides of the House. I am very rejuvenated by the expression of the non-partisan approach that will be taken in the very near future on the issue of victims' rights.

I look forward to seeing this issue brought to fruition in the very near future. There can be no greater good come from this debate this morning than to see these types of changes brought about. Those who find themselves in the unfortunate position of being victims will be given a greater ability to participate and hopefully see that justice is done in this country.

[Commissioner For The Rights Of Victims Of Crime, June 8th, 1998]

moved:

That, in the opinion of this House, the government should create the position of commissioner for the rights of victims of crime, with a role similar to that of the correctional investigator.

Madam Speaker, I am very pleased to speak to this motion seconded by the member for Surrey North. I appreciate his seconding this motion.

Motion No. 386 calls on the federal government to establish a commissioner for the rights of victims of crime. The motion further specifies that the role of such office would be similar to that of the correctional investigator. I introduced this motion last month to highlight the strong need of victims of crime to have a voice, a voice within our criminal justice system.

Since the election last June it has become increasingly clear that victims in the justice system are in need of such an office. As the justice critic for the Progressive Conservative Party I have had the opportunity to speak with many victims of crime, and those courageous individuals are not only against crime itself but want to further involve themselves in the cause of victims generally. These victims are also spouses, children, parents and siblings, those who have lost loved ones as a result of criminal activity.

Unfortunately victims often have no one to turn to at the federal level for assistance when their concerns have not been properly addressed by those who are charged with the task of administering justice. I mention the federal level because all provinces and territories have legislation in place for victims of crime, unlike the federal government which appears reluctant to adopt a victims bill of rights.

In my home province of Nova Scotia we have a victims services division within our department of justice. In Quebec, le Bureau d'aide aux victimes d'actes criminels, BAVAC, provides information and assistance to victims of crime. Progressive Conservative governments in Alberta, Manitoba and Ontario have also increased the level of services and information available to victims and their families.

The problem has less to do with the offices and more to do with the lack of information and government programs that provide for victims. Specifically it has more to do with the lack of an independent advocate for victims when the justice system breaks down.

Who is there to provide answers for these individuals, for their loved ones, those who have died or who have been seriously injured as a result of crime? When this happens there needs to be a federal agency that can address these problems. Let us ask someone like Carolyn Solomon of Garson, Ontario. In 1997 Ms. Solomon lost her son Kevin who was murdered by Michael Hector. Hector was a federal parolee who was not properly supervised. Moreover, Hector's parole supervisor was not provided with enough information about this individual.

Hector breached his conditions of parole and should not have been permitted to walk the streets. Consequently he was free to kill. Three young individuals lost their lives as a result, including Carolyn Solomon's son Kevin.

Mrs. Solomon wanted to know why Michael Hector was permitted to breach these conditions of his parole without accountability. She wanted to know why Correctional Service Canada did not provide Michael Hector's full criminal and psychological records to his parole supervisor. She wanted to know why Hector's parole supervisor took everything Hector told him at face value, a sense of self-reporting. There was no in-depth investigation on these bits of information provided by the parolee.

To their credit, Correctional Service Canada and the National Parole Board have a mechanism in place to promptly undertake a review when cases are botched the way they were with Michael Hector. Mrs. Solomon was a victim of Michael Hector's crime which resulted from mistakes made by Correctional Service Canada and the National Parole Board and yet they are in essence charged with investigating themselves in the wake of this tragedy.

Mrs. Solomon certainly asked for information in the months that followed her son's death and certainly asked to see the final report of the CSC and the National Parole Board investigation. However, what was the response of the agencies to her inquiries? Dead silence or perhaps mild indifference. Only when Mrs. Solomon hired a lawyer and raised the spectre of legal action did the CSC and the National Parole Board finally provide her with a copy of the board of investigation report into the death of her son. Only when Mrs. Solomon spent over a year facing a wall of apathy within the federal agencies which are paid for in part by her taxes did she receive a meaningful response.

A few months ago Mrs. Solomon sat in my office in Ottawa. She looked me straight in the eye and said: “I feel more anger toward our justice system than I do for Michael Hector”. This is a very telling statement given the fact that Michael Hector killed her son. It is an extremely sad commentary on the current state of our justice system when a mother whose son was murdered feels this way about our justice system.

Mrs. Solomon is not alone. Helen Leadley of Calgary, Alberta lost her 23-year old daughter in 1983 to Robert Paul Thompson while he was out on a day pass. Two weeks ago Thompson was granted a 19 hour escorted temporary absence, an ETA, to attend a religious ceremony. Who was Thompson's escort? Was it a security guard? No, it was not a guard. Thompson's escort was the Springhill inmate chaplain because, as it was related to Mrs. Leadley, it was part of Thompson's personal development program.

Although a personal development program for a convicted killer may be laudable, releasing him into the general public without proper supervision is a slap in the face for victims and family members like Mrs. Leadley.

What does Mrs. Leadley have to do? Where does she turn when this happens? Does the federal government provide her with an opportunity to contact an independent advocate or an ombudsman to investigate these questionable decisions made by Correctional Service Canada or other related agencies? No. Sadly there is not such an office. Another victim is feeling revictimized.

Someone has ended the life of a loved one and then the criminal justice system appears to focus solely on the needs of the criminal to the detriment to the needs of the victim at times.

The lack of concern within the justice system for the rights of victims only underlines the fact that there is increasingly low confidence in our justice system, low confidence by the victims and by the general public. The problem of low confidence within our justice system has been highlighted. We see it time and time again in terms of the expression of the frustration on the part of victims and people at large. Our justice system does not exactly inspire public confidence, and that needs to change.

That is not to say the public must always agree with the decisions made by police, the judiciary, crown prosecutors, the parole board or even the prison system, but Canadians must be assured that victims have the same access as criminals to ensuring their rights are respected by our justice system.

Unfortunately most Canadians feel little assurance in the ability of our justice system to include the views of the victims of crime in the decision making process.

Last week I hosted a town hall meeting in my riding in Nova Scotia and the topic was victims rights. There were not too many people present at the meeting who expressed a great deal of faith in our justice system. There were a great deal more who expressed a feeling of frustration about our political system and its ability to make significant change.

Victims like Carolyn Solomon should not have to spend their own dollars hiring lawyers to get answers within our justice system. They should have a commissioner for the rights of victims of crime, an independent ombudsman, their own voice at the federal level, involved in the administration of our country's justice system. This commissioner would be modelled after the office of the correctional investigator established in 1973 as part II of the Inquiries Act.

Since 1992 the office of the correctional investigator has fallen under part III of the Corrections and Conditional Release Act. The correctional investigator acts as an ombudsman independent of Correctional Service Canada for offenders serving prison sentences within our federal penitentiaries. The correctional investigator may investigate on his own initiative, on request from the solicitor general, on a complaint or on behalf of an inmate.

The office also reviews all CSC reports of investigations into death or serious injury within our federal inmate system. Each year the correctional investigator submits an annual report regarding problems investigated and actions taken to the Department of the Solicitor General and the solicitor general is in turn required to table the report in parliament.

In the past these reports have outlined general issues of concern to federal inmates such as overcrowding, double bunking and the use of force by guards. I can only use those as examples because it would appear to me to be a very positive step the government would take to establish a victims rights commissioner who would have the ability to investigate similar problems on behalf of victims and similarly table a report in the House.

Would it not be a more positive climate for parliament to have an independent annual report coming forward that outlines the problems facing victims within our federal system and allowing us in the House to take a look at those problems with a mind to improving them?

A commissioner for the rights of victims would be more than just a sympathetic ear or a clearing house for government information. The commissioner would be an ombudsman, an advocate and an independent voice within the criminal justice system, a system that all believe does not properly reflect victims rights.

The Minister of Justice told the media earlier this year of her intention to create a national victims rights office. Unfortunately the victims of crime with whom I have spoken and met recently are worried that this initiative would be little more than a duplication of the information services provided for victims already within the provincial and territorial governments. The minister and the government could show good faith in creating a meaningful government mechanism to support victims rights by supporting in principle Motion No. 386.

For those who would express reservations in supporting the motion on the basis that it would infringe on provincial or territorial jurisdiction, I would ask that they simply consider what provincial organization is able to properly hold federal agencies accountable for their decisions within the federal component of the criminal justice system.

Beyond the office of a correctional investigator let us remember the many independent federal organizations that operate to scrutinize decisions made by important national institutions. The RCMP is subjected to independent review from both the RCMP public complaints commission and the RCMP external review committee. CSIS is subject to the Security Intelligence Review Committee and a CSIS inspector general.

When there is a transportation related accident the transportation safety board is mandated to investigate. Air Canada does not investigate its own plane crashes without examination by a board. VIA Rail similarly is not left to its own devices to review passenger train accidents. The operation of the Government of Canada as a whole is subjected to the scrutiny of offices such as the auditor general, the information commissioner, the privacy commission and the official languages commissioner.

A society and a government that are prepared to provide for independent scrutiny for many of these policy objectives should similarly be prepared to provide an independent advocate on behalf of victims of crime.

Victims are not seeking the right to be judge and jury, but they are simply demanding they be listened to and respected by a system that often centres too much on the relationship between the state and the community. Victims need to be added to the criminal justice equation.

As an illustration previously provided, in the case of Carolyn Solomon, her son and others the sentence of the offender is often less important to victims than the experience of the judicial process itself. Victims are demanding a voice and Motion No. 386 would help provide them with that voice.

I urge hon. colleagues from all sides of the House to put aside partisanship that often enters into the question of law and order and let us make a lasting and positive contribution for those who have been excluded from the justice system for far too long. Let us give victims a stronger voice within our justice system.

During my time as an attorney in Nova Scotia I heard many people state that the measure of a true democracy is demonstrated by the treatment of its prisoners. Certainly the time has come for Canada to show that we want an equally important measure of democracy in how we treat our victims.

[Questions On The Order Paper, June 5th, 1998]

Mr. Speaker, for eight months Question No. 21 has been languishing on the Order Paper. It takes nine months from conception to delivery.

When will the government give birth to the answer to Question No. 21?

[Fisheries, June 5th, 1998]

Mr. Speaker, several weeks ago we heard the minister say that fish come first. He should remember that people in communities come first, communities like Canso, Mulgrave, Lismore and Arichat. Their future depends on a reasonable share of the scientifically viable shrimp quotas.

The quota increase would allow for an allotment to these Nova Scotia proposals. Will the minister have the courage to come to Nova Scotia and explain to these individuals involved why his shrimp quotas have been denied to their communities?

[Fisheries, June 5th, 1998]

Mr. Speaker, three weeks ago the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans slammed the door on Nova Scotia fisheries workers by not granting a single tonne of the 28,000 northern shrimp quota to any of the four Nova Scotia community proposals. According to scientific advice from DFO, the minister is free to allocate an additional 7,000 tonnes of shrimp quota.

In light of his decision to completely ignore Nova Scotian needs, will the minister consider granting the remaining shrimp quota to the four Nova Scotia proposals?