Peter Stoffer

[Eldorado Nuclear Limited Reorganization And Divestiture Act, September 28th, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, if he wants to refer to foreigners as nasty, I would not call them that and never did. I would call them very enterprising. Why would one not pick up a Canadian company for a song? With our low dollar, why not? It is an easy deal. I would do the same thing if I had the opportunity.

However, if he firmly believes that we cannot do anything about oil and gas prices and if he is going to blame the oil companies for the rapid rises, then why does he not reduce the prices on taxation of the fuel right now? Why does he not regulate the industry within the country in the way that P.E.I. does? P.E.I. has a regulatory framework on its fuel prices and its gas is almost a dime cheaper than in Nova Scotia. Why does he not do that?

Second, he talked about the corporate control. I know that the parliamentary secretary is an honourable man and one of the most intelligent people on the government side. However, how much has foreign ownership gone up since 1993 when the government took office? I think he would be astounded by the statistic of exactly how much foreign ownership has increased since the Liberals took power.

[Eldorado Nuclear Limited Reorganization And Divestiture Act, September 28th, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on behalf of the New Democratic Party to say how disappointed we are with the government again selling off or giving away and basically denouncing something that we were a big part of back in 1972-74 when there was a minority government.

Some people say that probably the best government of that time was when we were assisting the Liberals and pushing them into the Petro-Canada act itself. Because of the energy crisis facing our consumers, our industries, our businesses and the economy at that time, we felt that it was necessary for Canada to try to look internally, at its own concerns, when it came to energy pricing and energy supply. Unfortunately now the government has turned its back on yet another Canadian corporation, one that all of us in Canada were very proud of and in many ways are still very proud of.

It is very interesting to hear the reform members talk about how much it costs. They use inflated figures and say, “This applied to the debt—”. To say that because we had Petro-Canada the finances of the country are in terrible, dire straits is simple nonsense.

The fact is, they never mention the profits that Petro-Canada made over those years or the number of jobs it created in Canada. They never mention the taxes that were paid by the employees of Petro-Canada, which assisted in social programs and other programs in Canada.

They never mention the positive aspects of what Petro-Canada did for this country. They never do. They are in such a rush with their American friends to sell off anything that has the Canadian flag on it, almost. In fact I will rue the day when I come into this House of Commons and see the stars and stripes standing right next to you, Mr. Speaker. The way we are going, we are rushing off at a very dizzying rate and selling more of our assets in Canada to American and foreign control.

My wife is from Montreal. Really, she sometimes can understand and feel what the Bloc Quebecois is saying in the House of Commons and in the province of Quebec when they talk about their culture, their unity and being Quebecois. Many times I sit back and say that sometimes they might be right in defending against the interests of the Americans, but separatism will not work. Their link to the American currency, which they would love, kind of blows that little touchy-feely warm feeling I have for them.

It is a long string of deregulation, of getting rid of what we pride ourselves on in Canada. When this country was young, when it became a country with the CBC radio and television, we spoke to each other from coast to coast to coast through the CBC. What has happened over the years? The government has again taken away funding from CBC. It has made it a shell of itself, to the point where I think 5% of westerners actually watch CBC. In fact, the CBC's greatest strength now is in Atlantic Canada and even that is diminishing, to the point where eventually we will have the argument of whether money should go into the CBC or into health care. Then people will say that health care is diminishing because we have the CBC, so get rid of it.

I suspect it will not be too long before we one day sit in the House of Commons and the government across the way gets rid of the CBC, something that we cherish and value. The string just goes on and on.

We had Air Canada, a proud airline at one time. The government got rid of it. It became privatized in the dog-eat-dog competitive world out there. They linked with Canadian, a company I worked with for 18 years, and what happened? There are major complaints about the service. While competing against one another these two airlines were doing a great job, but what has the government had to do now? It has had to get an NHL referee to separate all the concerns that were going on with regard to the complaints in the industry.

It goes on and on. We sold MacMillan Bloedel. We are getting rid of Petro-Canada. Pretty soon we will be getting rid of the CBC. Eventually we will be selling out everything. This is what shocks me. This shows how the Liberals are really no different from the Canadian Alliance or the Progressive Conservatives in their thinking. They both support more privatization of our crown corporations, of what makes us Canadian. It is true. They support it. Petro-Canada will eventually be controlled, if it is not already in the majority sense, by foreign ownership. We will no longer have the ability or the access to control our own petroleum industry, for example.

A classic example of this is that we are a net exporter of petroleum products in this country. That is a fact. Yet we do not have a national energy pricing commission or an energy review commission to protect consumers, the industry and the economy from inflated prices for gas or natural gas. We cannot do anything about it because we do not have those controls.

We continually allow government intervention or governmental ability to protect, such as seniors, for example. Seniors in my riding this year are going to have a very difficult time heating their homes. They are on fixed incomes. They are already making the choice between bread and their prescriptions. What are they going to do this winter if we have a very cold winter in Atlantic Canada? What is going to happen to these people? The government is going to do absolutely nothing.

The government may talk about a little GST credit and everything else, but it does not go after the root of the problem, which is, first, the taxation on the fuel prices and, second, the fact that these foreign companies can raise their oil prices without any regulatory aspects to it and can just get away with it constantly. For example, when the price of oil went down the other day were there any concessions or knocking down of prices at the pumps? Absolutely not. But when they go up, all of a sudden, bang, they go up.

A classic example of that is from the member for Labrador who so rightfully complained to his own government. In September and early October most of the fuel for Labrador goes up there by barge. That fuel was bought at a specific price. What happens when the price goes up? The gas starts going up in Labrador if there is no new supply into there. It is a major rip-off to the economy and to the people who live in Labrador. What does the government do? Absolutely nothing. That is the way the pickle squirts.

The government claims it cannot do anything about it. It knows it has a responsibility to care for the people of this country, but is not doing anything because American and foreign ownership of our companies is much more important than the protection and interests of our economy and those people who live within our borders. It is a sin and a real shame.

A publication from Natural Resources Canada says that Canadian control of these two enterprises will not be affected by the amendments. That is simple nonsense. Nobody in their right mind believes that. In most cases, nobody believes what the natural resources minister says anyway. Just because a corporation keeps its head office in Canada does not mean that its management is completely in Canadian hands. Just because a corporation has an office in Calgary does not mean we have Canadian control of it. It is simple nonsense. This is what this bill will do.

From 1972 to 1974, Petro-Canada was pushed by the NDP so our interests from coast to coast to coast would be protected. We were very proud of that initiative. It allowed us to say that we had our own company controlling energy prices, energy flow and everything else. Yet, now we are in the year 2000 and the government is saying get rid of it. Let us get rid of anything that has a Canadian flag or a Canadian symbol on it. Pretty soon we are going to see the stars and stripes up here. I proudly walk into this building everyday because when I look up at the Peace Tower I see our Canadian flag. Yet, every single day we start losing one more piece and one more brick of what is called Canadian.

I was not born in this country. I came to Canada in 1956 because my mother, father and the six children decided to leave Holland for economic opportunities and for the opportunity to live in peace and freedom. That is what Canada has given us. We are very proud to be called Canadians. I am very proud to stand up and say I am a Canadian and I am very proud to raise my children in this country. It is disappointing to see our Canadian identity slowly slipping away to foreign hands and foreign control.

When polices in the government are no longer acceptable for the people of Canada, we have to wait to see what the World Trade Organization says or we cannot do something because we have to see what GATT is going to do. We cannot help our farmers because of certain international regulations. Yet, France and the Americans do not hesitate for a second to help their farmers. We sit and talk but do absolutely nothing about it. This is a real sin.

As I have said before, the particular bill we have before us looks like a piece of legislation that came out of the south end of a north bound cow. I urge the government to reconsider this legislation.

[Marine Conservation Areas Act, September 28th, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, I want to add to the dialogue on Bill C-8. I will quote the hon. member for Churchill River who said:

Adequate resources must be defined and committed to pollution monitoring. The Liberal government's repeated statement to Canadians that the high standards of environmental protection are being met is not true. There is continued devolution and abdication of environmental responsibilities. This government can sign a piece of paper and have a photo opportunity for the news. Then the government has a program review and always cuts the budget and at the same time says that things are going great. This cannot continue with Bill C-8.

Those were the words of the member for Churchill River.

[Marine Conservation Areas Act, September 28th, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to speak to Bill C-8, an act respecting marine conservation areas. As the title alone would indicate, why would anyone be against marine conservation areas? When we say it like that it sounds great. We are going to protect conservation areas in the marine aquatic areas.

Unfortunately, it is just the title. Like most other things the Liberal government does, this is another piece of legislation that came out of the south end of a northbound cow. It is simply not strong enough. It is not going to do what it is supposed to do.

There is a bill that is also before the House, Bill C-33, the endangered species act. It is very clear when we speak to people within the environment committee and to people who appeared before the committee that the bill does not protect the habitat of the endangered species. That is what this bill does. It does not do anything to protect conservation areas.

I will digress for just a moment. One of the reasons why the cod stocks on the east coast of Atlantic Canada are down is the massive overfishing through the technology that we use today in dragging and trawling the ocean floor. They completely drag the bottom of the ocean floor and everything comes up with it. Then they throw over what they do not need, dead, to the tune of millions of pounds of fish. Every year in this country and around the world fish are being dumped overboard. As we speak, there is dumping going on in the Georges Bank and in the NAFO areas of the Flemish Cap because they throw overboard the fish species they do not want.

The bill will permit trawling and dragging in these conservation areas. It is absolute madness. If we are going to protect a particular area it means we must have the most sustainable environmental methods of harvesting our dwindling aquatic resources. The bill does not even address that problem. In the entire country, the government did absolutely no consultation on the bill with any fishing communities. I find it absolutely deplorable that people who rely on ocean species for their livelihood are not even consulted on this very important bill.

As well, I cannot help but notice that the Minister of Veterans Affairs is reported in the newspapers today as saying that he wants an expansion of the 200 mile zone to a 350 mile zone.

That sounds great, but what is its main purpose? Is it to protect fishing jobs and coastal communities on the east coast and on the west coast, or is there another reason for it? Are his comments or ideas included in Bill C-8, an act respecting marine conservation areas? Are they even included? I would doubt very much.

We have a burgeoning oil and gas industry off the east coast. We have a beautiful place called Sable Island about 100 miles off the coast of Halifax.

We were told in 1997 that for oil and gas seismic work Sable Island would be a no-touch zone. That means no seismic work would be done on Sable Island because they did not need to do it. It is a no-touch zone.

What happened last year? Seismic cables were drawn clearly across that island, a very fragile ecosystem. They changed the rules. They changed the code of practice in order to get that work done.

I find it absolutely astonishing that one year they say something and two years later they do something completely different. If we are truly interested in protecting marine conservation areas, we should stand by our words and truly protect the aquatic species in Atlantic Canada.

For example, it has cost taxpayers across the country $4.2 billion to readjust the fishing industry on east coast since 1988. Yet the cod stocks are not rebounding. Salmon stocks are in trouble. We heard the other day that turbot stocks may be in trouble. Crab stocks off Newfoundland are in trouble. The bill could have provided some protection for breeding grounds and spawning grounds for many of those species, but unfortunately it falls terribly short.

We on this side of the House know that the government cannot handle certain areas on its own. The federal government does not have the wherewithal or the knowledge to be able to do it on its own. Why would it not include the province, the communities and those people closest to the resource in the decision making process?

I understand why Bloc Quebecois members are so angry. It goes completely against what we voted on in the House earlier in Bill C-7, the Saguenay—St. Lawrence Marine Park model. That was an excellent example of co-operation at all three levels of government to protect a very sensitive area for beluga whales. Now Bill C-8 goes completely the other way. It is absolute madness.

Again we have that top down, bureaucratic, central based government saying to the extremities of the country “We know what is best for you in Ottawa, so be quiet, forget about it and we will move forward”. It is disguised under a nice, touchy-feely thing called conservation of marine areas and protection of the environment, but unfortunately it simply does not work.

Another big problem the government failed to address is that Victoria, British Columbia, and Halifax, Nova Scotia, still pump raw sewage into our oceanways. They are dumping millions of pounds of sewage every year into the waterways and our oceanways. The federal government has refused to act. It refuses to assist the city of Victoria and the city of Halifax in stopping deleterious substances from going into our oceanways and affecting our marine aquatic species. The bill does not even address that issue.

What are the Liberals really up to? They are all right. They are pretty decent people. In fact some of them in the House today are my friends. However, I doubt very much they have even read the bill. I doubt very much they have even informed their constituents about it.

The bill is very misleading. We simply cannot have that any more, especially on the east coast with a burgeoning oil and gas industry. Many people are very concerned about seismic work off the east and west coasts of Cape Breton Island. There has been no consultation with user groups. The province and federal government, through the Canada-Nova Scotia Offshore Petroleum Board, grant the leases and tell the companies to do an environmental assessment after they get the leases. It is sort of putting the cart before the horse.

The environmental assessment should be done on these areas long prior to any seismic work being done. The government has shifted responsibility from the public sector into the private sector, which could have devastating effects on fishing communities throughout Atlantic Canada. We do not know exactly what is going on in the oceanways. We have cut back in that department in science so much that this does not go a very long way.

The Liberals continuously refuse to discuss these issues in an open manner. They like to rush things through. Input from the opposition or other members of society is simply not acceptable in the Liberal way of things. It is incredible.

The fact is that there are many good things we can do to protect our environment by working co-operatively with all three levels of government, with all five official parties, and with our friends in society who are seriously concerned about having true marine conservation areas on our coastlines to protect aquatic species and to protect the planet for many generations to come.

[Privacy Commissioner, September 28th, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague from Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough for his comments. I only wish his good friend the premier of Nova Scotia, Dr. John Hamm, would hear his comments. As we all know, a former major Conservative member received a very plum position in Nova Scotia as deputy minister of education and received a raise on top of what the person previously in that position received. I hope his comments translate to the provincial Conservative premier. But that is just a little punch to a provincial issue.

The member is absolutely correct in that parliament needs to be more relevant, more transparent and more open. What role can the hon. member see the general public playing in this? Would it be just through elected officials in the committee? Would the general public have an actual say in this as well or does he feel that it would get too bogged down in some sort of bureaucratic malaise? Can the hon. member see the general public having an actual say on who is appointed to these very prestigious positions?

[Privacy Commissioner, September 28th, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member from the Bloc for her statement.

The other day we were informed that the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation in Winnipeg has been given another board director through order in council without any consultation from the fisheries committee, without any consultation from anyone. This name just appeared, and bang. Through government order in council this person is now in a very important position within the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation in Winnipeg.

I would like to have the hon. member's comments both on the systemic attitude that the government has shown in ignoring past recommendations and on making these appointments much more open and much more transparent to all Canadians.

[Atlantic Canadians, September 26th, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, I want to inform the House and all Canadians that I am not a lazy maritimer.

The recent comments by John Mykytyshyn of the Alliance Party, a senior policy advisor, as well as the comments yesterday in the House by the hon. member for Calgary—Nose Hill, demonstrates what the Alliance Party thinks of us in Atlantic Canada.

I, my colleagues and all elected representatives who serve the over 3 million Atlantic Canadians, many of whom have moved to other parts of Canada, wish to inform the leader of the Alliance Party and the Alliance Party itself that we are not only some of the finest people in the entire country and in the entire world, we are also caring and sharing people as well.

It is about time the official opposition realized what truly great people live in Atlantic Canada.

[Supply, September 21st, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I beg the indulgence of the House to seek unanimous consent for an additional five minutes of questions and comments for the right hon. former prime minister so that each party can ask one question.

[Supply, September 21st, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague from Palliser for his presentation and his environmental concerns of fuel and taxes.

We all saw what happened in England when there was a truckers' blockage. We saw shortages in the stores. We saw hospitals open for emergencies only and selective surgery shut down.

We know that petroleum from the North Sea will be completely gone by the year 2020. With that in mind, knowing that time is catching up to us, can he recommend to Canada what we should be doing in terms of going beyond petroleum? Like the commercial, BP now says that we are beyond petroleum. If we could reduce taxes on petroleum that would be great, but the long term picture is what our grandchildren will do without petroleum products.

Can he elaborate a bit more on what Canada and governments should be doing to see that our children have renewable, sustainable energy for their products as well?

[Species At Risk Act, September 19th, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to speak to this very important topic.

I say to my hon. colleague from the Bloc Quebecois Party that protection of the environment should never be in isolation. The problem occurs with cross-border pollutants and cross-border migratory species, et cetera. The best way to protect our planet's species and everyone else involved in that sphere should be co-operation at all levels. To do it in isolation simply will not work.

Our party vehemently rejects this legislation because it is quite simple. It is absolute nonsense to say we will protect animals and not protect their habitat. The bill does nothing to protect habitat.

The policies of the New Democratic Party will be the following ones:

Identification and listing of species at risk by an independent committee of scientists, wherein scientific evidence is the primary consideration and not political interpretation of data; and

Comprehensive, nationwide natural habitat protection, including protection for species that range or migrate over Canada's domestic and international borders; and

Inclusion of stakeholders in development of species recovery plans, provision of adequate support to those whose livelihood is disrupted by a species recovery plan and provision for just transition to workers and communities affected by the recovery plans.

That is a much more proactive approach to species at risk.

I will delve into a little story of an area just outside my riding called the Liscomb Game Sanctuary. Two-thirds of that game sanctuary is already logged. When asked by a group trying to protect it, DNR officials in Nova Scotia said “Don't get us wrong but our job is to protect the wildlife and not the habitat”. That shows the nonsense of officials in the bureaucratic governmental level who do not understand that if we do not have a healthy, vibrant habitat for species at risk then we simply will not have any species. Bill C-33 will just not allow that to happen.

It is unfortunate that the minister, who I believe is well meaning, does not understand that aspect of it.

A while ago the International Fund for Animal Welfare gave every member of parliament in the House a species to identify with. Mine of course was the bottlenose whale, a whale with a fairly large forehead but a very endearing smile. I thought that was quite nice. Every member in the House received one.

What that organization was highlighting and saying to every member of parliament was that it was our responsibility to do everything we could to protect the particular species identified. If we work together, if we do it from the ground or the waters of the ocean up then we can do it. We can do it very successfully, but if it comes from the top down there will be rejections and a very futile effort on the part of government when it argues about it. Meanwhile the destruction of our planet carries on.

As we speak, in Washington state just south of Sumas in the Abbotsford area of British Columbia, there are plans to set up a new power plant. Its emissions into our environment would equate to about 480,000 vehicles every day. What does our government do about it? Absolutely nothing.

There are many legal avenues that our government could pursue. It could send it to an arbitration board. It could ask for better clarification. Yet our government sits there and tells the state of Washington nothing. If this plant goes ahead I have very dire predictions for the environment, for the health of British Columbians and even for the people of the state of Washington for wherever that ill wind will be blowing.

We can also look at the history of past Conservative and current Liberal governments in terms of the fishery species. It is not an accident that salmon on the west coast and salmon on the east coast, cod, and crab stocks off Newfoundland are depleting at a very rapid rate. Many independent scientists are now saying that cod off our coastline may never recover.

Yet as we speak there are still terrible ongoing harvesting methods. We are still dragging the bottom of our oceans. We are still dumping millions of pounds of fish over the sides of boats every year. That is an abysmal policy of the government.

To say that we will now protect species at risk is simple nonsense. The government and the previous Conservative government have no idea what it takes, the leadership that it takes to protect our planet. When we protect the flora and fauna and other plants and animals, in essence we are protecting ourselves as well.

It is most unbelievable that the Canada-Nova Scotia Offshore Petroleum Board issues leases through the province and gives out lease permits to oil and gas companies to do seismic work off the coastlines of Cape Breton and Nova Scotia. Once it gives out a lease it says the company has to do an environmental assessment. It is simple nonsense.

The government is saying that the company has to do its own environmental assessment, report back, and nine times out of ten proceed as normal. A full independent, complete environmental assessment should be done of those areas first. Based on the discussions and on the parameters of that assessment, leases could then be granted if they will not harm ocean or fish habitats.

The mandate of the DFO and the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans is quite clear: the protection of fish and fish habitat. However basically the cart is before the horse when it gives away jurisdiction to an independent board that grants leases before an environmental assessment is done. There is nothing in the legislation that reverses that practice. Thousands of fishermen in their communities are very concerned about it.

I am not saying that oil and gas exploration and fisheries cannot coexist, but we need hard core, scientific, independent environmental evidence first to ensure that all fish and all fish habitat are protected by the burgeoning oil and gas industry.

At this time I would like to mention one of the top three books I have read, Rachel Carson's Silent Spring . Unfortunately many people in the House probably have not read it. I know government officials have never read it. It was written in the early sixties by an American environmentalist who predicted what is happening today: the decline of species, the increase of asthma in children, and the rampant use of agricultural pesticides on crops and products throughout the world.

It is no coincidence that on Prince Edward Island there are fish kills every year related directly to agricultural pesticides in its potato fields. What is done about it? Nothing, absolutely nothing.

We do not want to upset farmers. The salmon river groups and the fishing groups are saying that they do not want to upset farmers either. We have to work together not only to be able to yield a sufficient crop in the potato industry but to protect the waters and the habitat of fish. It does no good to promote one industry at the destruction of another. That kind of attitude needs to change and a more co-operative level has to happen.

At this time I wish to thank some great organizations throughout the country that do a tremendous amount of good in protecting our habitat for future generations. The Sackville Rivers Association in my riding does a tremendous job of river cleanup, habitat protection and everything else, on a shoestring. The Atlantic Salmon Federation is trying to promote sustainable recreational fisheries for salmon. As well it is trying to protect their rivers and breeding grounds and ocean stocks in order for the salmon to return.

I also thank the people of the Burns Bog Society in Steveston, Richmond, British Columbia. Those people are trying to protect the Burns Bog area for migratory birds species. Unfortunately all levels of government are not really listening to them, but I thank those people for their efforts in protecting those species.

Also I thank a wonderful group in Nova Scotia called the Ecology Action Centre. It is a great group of environmental people doing it on a shoestring, trying to protect specific areas in Nova Scotia like the coral reefs and forested areas so that many generations from now can enjoy the benefits of those beautiful areas.

I also thank the David Suzuki Foundation for the great work it does not only within Canada but internationally, and of course the Nova Scotia Nature Trust. The Nova Scotia Nature Trust was started by a gentleman in Chester named Rudy Haase. Basically it purchases lands from people and tries to protect them for future generations.

I say to the government and other opposition members that if we do not protect the habitat of the specific species we are talking about, it is simple nonsense to talk about the back end and say we will protect the species without protecting their habitat. It can be done co-operatively with the use of aboriginal knowledge, especially of the north. It can be done with the municipalities, the provinces, industry, workers and all associated groups in that level working together not only to protect our country but to protect our planet.