Peter Stoffer

[February 19th, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, one would almost think he believed what he just read but the fact is that he forgot to tell us that further on in the act the governor in council may override certain things that the minister chooses to do.

The reality is that it was a previous Conservative government that was in power when the world's largest collapse of a natural resource took place off the east coast, the collapse of the northern cod. Four billion of our tax dollars went to readjust that industry and over 50,000 people left the great province of Newfoundland and Labrador. Not one person from DFO or the government was ever held accountable for that.

It will be those people who will be there for the collapse of the independent fishermen and their communities.

If the member is so convinced that it is a public resource, as stated in the Supreme Court decision in Comeau's Sea Foods Ltd. v. the Government of Canada, why is that not in the preamble of the text? It is not there. It is incorrect for him to say that it is public property. It is not. This act would clearly turn it over to corporate hands, the big players.

If he is right about a public resource, how does he explain that the Jim Pattison Group controls over 70% of the herring stocks on the west coast? How does the--

[February 19th, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, the other day I raised a question in the House regarding Bill C-45, the new fisheries act tabled by the Minister of Fisheries on December 13 of last year.

It is ironic that this very thick bill, almost two and a half times bigger than the previous act, represents a sweeping change to the oldest act of Parliament, the Fisheries Act, which is 138 years old. It is ironic that it was dropped on our desks on December 13. Shortly afterwards, we went on Christmas break.

After carefully reading the bill, I started asking questions of fishermen, their communities and their organizations, various provincial premiers, various aboriginal groups, and environmental groups. In the premise of the preamble and the news releases, it was said that the bill came from “extensive consultations”.

Believing the government to be honest, I started asking who had been consulted with. I am still waiting for the names of the people who were consulted. I asked: “Were you asked to help the government redefine a new Fisheries Act prior to December 13? Were you consulted or were you presented with papers?”

Consultation means to actually seek input from people, not tell them what we are going to do. I know that my hon. colleague, the parliamentary secretary from British Columbia, is going to answer this question, so I am going to give him a little preamble.

He probably already knows a very fine and learned gentleman, Mr. Christopher Harvey, Q.C., who is a very well spoken, articulate and very informed lawyer from British Columbia. I will quote a paragraph for the hon. member, because I know the hon. member himself is from B.C.

Mr. Harvey talks about the fact that Bill C-45 is a colossal expropriation of fishing rights, which means that it privatizes a public resource. The hon. member knows that in 1997 the Supreme Court of Canada ruled that the fisheries are a “common property resource” to be managed by the Government of Canada in the public interest. Mr. Harvey, in his dissertation on the act, says:

This is a transparent attempt to download unlimited and unspecified charges onto fishermen. Long ago, in the B.C. Terms of Union of 1871, the federal government agreed to “defray the charges” for protection and encouragement of fisheries.

That is what it said. The parliamentary secretary can say whatever he wants from his departmental notes. That is exactly what happens. This bill will not protect fish and fish habitat. It will privatize a public resource, will further destroy fishing families and their communities across the country, and will eventually divide and conquer first nations and non-aboriginal fishermen and further create a divide that is already there.

We have already said to the minister and his parliamentary secretary that if they truly want to have a new fisheries act, we welcome the debate. We would welcome the opportunity to take this to a special legislative committee before second reading so that we can truly consult with Canadians from coast to coast to coast, and those on our inland waters, in order to develop a new fisheries act that not only protects the habitat but enhances opportunities for commercial and recreational fishermen right across this country.

I have questions for the government.

Why were 31 environmental groups across the country unanimous in their condemnation of this bill the other day?

Why was the UFAW/CAW union in B.C. upset over this act?

Why were Otto Langer and Carl Hunt, two renowned fisheries biologists, one from B.C. and the other from Alberta, so very angry and upset over this bill?

Why was Phil Morlock, head of the CSIA, the association for our $7 billion sport fishing industry in this country, never once consulted on this bill?

[Committees of the House, February 19th, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, no one, at least on this side of the House, said that we wanted to put up a great big wall and exclude China, or India, or Bangladesh, or anybody else. We never said that.

We said that we are going to enter into these trade agreements, which as the member said, opens up our markets to some of their products, but we have to do it in a way that is balanced and fair. We have to do it in a way that those workers in Bangladesh, Vietnam, India and China are not exploited. We have to do it in a way that those workers eventually get the same rights and benefits as the workers in this country do. It is called good standards, fair wages, fair competition, fair regulations, fair rules for all of us.

That member knows there is a tremendous imbalance happening. Anyone who has been to China has seen the mills, mines and sweatshops there. It is not conducive to fair and balanced trade practices. It is not right that the western world takes advantage of the extremely low salaries in those countries.

What can the member offer, not just to help and protect our own workers, but what if he had to stand at a shipyard or a textile plant and tell the workers that we are going to shut their jobs down? What would he do to encourage very quickly the upgrading of workers in the countries that he mentioned so that they have the same benefits that workers in this country have?

[Committees of the House, February 19th, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague from Winnipeg is absolutely correct. A lot of my venom, more or less, was at the current government, but in fairness a lot of these problems existed with the previous government.

The so-called new government has an opportunity to correct that, to fix it, to follow the rules. The Conservatives promised that they would. They rant and rave about how bad this is, but that is one of the promises they made.

When you cut me off, Mr. Speaker, and rightfully so, I wanted to do the comparisons of all the other promises they failed to keep. It is true that the previous government absolutely screwed up big time. It put Canadian workers at the altar of the sacrifice.

However, how do we compete with a country where workers do not even get to vote for their own government? How do we compete with a country where workers cannot have the right to health and safety standards? How do we compete with a country where 5,000 coal miners on average die every year? How do we compete with a country like that? We do not. We have to work with them to ensure that human rights, workers' rights, environmental standards, et cetera are up and then negotiate trade deals that are fair for both countries.

[Committees of the House, February 19th, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, first, I would ensure that the government did not give into the request of B.C. shipbuilders and knock the export tariff off those ferries. We should keep the export tariff and use the money in a proactive way as mentioned by the member. I do not have a major problem with that. It is something to look into.

The second question was about trade barriers against China. I never said we should have trade barriers against China. I asked to use the same principles the WTO gave us. My colleague from Winnipeg said it very clearly. It was on the table. We could have had phased in targets over the time. I think he was talking about 7.5%.

The United States and the EU did it. We are asking for the same thing to be done in Canada. It is still not too late to do that. That is within the trade agreements. I did not make that up. The WTO has that.

Why can we not do what other countries have done? I never once said we should have trade barriers against China. I said we should work with China and other countries to develop an economy worldwide where all workers are lifted up, not just some of them

Because I have been rambling on, I forget his third question, but I will talk to him privately on that.

[Committees of the House, February 19th, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, to correct the member, it was my mother-in-law who worked in that plant.

He is absolutely right, but I ask him a question right back. What is the federal government doing to educate Canadians to buy Canadian first? When was the last time there was any kind of advertising to buy locally first? The province of Nova Scotia is doing that. The member knows as well as I that it is very difficult to compete with a major competitor like Wal-Mart. The member is right. The onus is on Canadians, whether it be the environment, their purchasing power, or whatever.

He talked about $300 shoes. I would sure like to know who makes running shoes in Canada any more. I have looked for many months and I cannot find them. If I could find them, I would certainly give them a good shot.

[Committees of the House, February 19th, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, I am delighted to enter the debate on this very important issue.

I would remind the House of words that were spoken by a gentleman for whom I have great respect, who is now the Minister of Human Resources and Social Development. He used to be the finance critic for the Reform-Alliance-Conservative party. I came to the House in 1997, but he said something in 1998 when he was chastising the then Liberal government about the Canada pension plan, EI and all of the support programs that help pensioners and workers. He said that the best social program is a job; that the best thing we can give Canadians is a full time job. He was absolutely right. When Canadians have jobs that they like and can depend on to look after their families, they have pride and dignity.

Mr. Speaker, as you know, my family came to Canada in 1956 and settled on the west coast in Vancouver. My brother worked in a lumber mill in the same job for almost 45 years. My dad worked in upholstery and was a postman. My mom and dad ran a group home for many years in Richmond and Burnaby, B.C.

I was very proud when I got my first full time job as a fibreglass worker at Lansair at the south airport in Vancouver. I eventually worked at a hotel, then at Canadian Airlines and now I am a member of Parliament. I have had the good fortune of having a job, being able to look after the financial needs of myself and my wife and children as well. I have been very blessed having lived in Vancouver, the Yukon and now in Nova Scotia, that I have not yet lost a job. I have moved to follow my work but I have not yet lost a job.

I can only imagine the tragedy and travesty for people who live in mill towns and smaller communities where the mill shuts down, like in Red Rock, Ontario. Their livelihoods are gone. They say goodbye to their friends and families, sell their homes and off they go. I know all too well what happened to the fishing communities in the great province of Newfoundland and Labrador and the other maritime and Atlantic provinces when the northern cod fishery collapsed. Thousands of people lost their jobs.

Now we are losing jobs because of what we consider unfair trade deals with one of the largest economies on the planet, which is China.

China's economy, by all accounts, is doing remarkably well. There has been a huge transformation in China over the last 20 to 30 years. The federal government still gives CIDA money to China. The Canadian International Development Agency still gives money to the developing nation of China, one of the largest economies on the planet. A member from Calgary often raised the question of why the government continued to give CIDA money to China. That is a debate we can have in the near future.

We all know that China does not have environmental, human rights and workers legislation. It does not have EI, workers compensation, health and safety standards, et cetera. It does not have those things for its workers. Also, the salaries that workers are paid in China are nowhere near the salaries paid in Canada. The former Liberal government and the current Conservative government tell the workers, communities and businesses in Canada that they have to compete with that.

Mr. Broadbent, the former leader of the NDP, said very clearly that it is not free trade. It is not even fair trade. It is unfair trade when we compete with a country that has no respect for human rights, environmental or labour standards or any other aspects that we in Canada in many cases take for granted.

The rights of workers in Canada did not come about because of the goodness and graciousness of governments. They came about because of the hard work of people on the picket lines, of people who died on the picket lines. Mr. Speaker, you of all people know very well that the Winnipeg general strike was a turning point in this country. I do not mean to say that you were there at the time, but you are fully aware of it.

One of the great leaders of our party, J.S. Woodsworth, wrote about how that strike spurred him and others on to a more socially democratic way of life so that workers could have the benefits to look after their families. It is now 2007 and the threat is competing with countries that are not balanced in any way when it comes to equality of fair trade.

I have absolutely nothing against Chinese workers, their families or the government in any way, but it would be nice to know that China was on the same level footing as we in terms of the environment, human rights, worker safety, worker salary, et cetera, but it is not and the committee, therefore, came up with a motion and we are asking the government to honour it. We will have the opportunity very soon to see whether it wants to accept the will of Parliament.

I want to go back a bit and go over the Conservative track record over the last 13 months. The government rallied and railed against the previous government for appointing its friends to various positions. What is one of the first things it did? Michael Fortier, an unelected Conservative fundraiser, or bagman some people say, was put into the Senate and made a cabinet minister.

The next thing it did, almost at lightening speed, was accept the first of many floor crossers. A gentleman who was from Vancouver Kingsway was a Liberal member at 10 a.m. and became a Conservative cabinet minister at 11 a.m.

Then, during the campaign, the Conservatives wrote a letter on the Prime Minister's behalf to a widow of a veteran in Cape Breton and said that if the Conservatives formed the government, they would extend VIP services to all widows of veterans, regardless of time of death or whether they applied. The word “immediately” was in there.

Then they sent a letter out to Danny Williams, the premier of Newfoundland and Labrador, basically reflecting the motion that the now Minister of Fisheries presented when he was in opposition. In a motion brought forward by the Conservatives, he said that the Conservatives would invoke custodial management on the nose and tail of the Grand Bank and Flemish Cap immediately.

[Committees of the House, February 19th, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague from the Bloc Québécois for his reasoned debate on this very important issue.

As he may have heard, my mother-in-law worked in a textile plant in downtown Montreal. She was very proud of that work. When I talk to her, she is always upset that all those people no longer have the opportunity to work there. The plant has shut down because those jobs have been sent offshore.

Shipbuilding in Lévis, Quebec is another industry that is in trouble. Valleyfield, another beautiful community in Quebec, is in trouble. The forestry industry is in trouble, et cetera, et cetera.

Does the member have any confidence that the government will do the right thing and honour the committee's decision in moving this very important issue forward?

[Committees of the House, February 19th, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, every time Liberals get up and talk about what they will do in the future, I always think of that Arlo Guthrie song, Alice's Restaurant, when the sergeant says to Arlo, “Kid, have you rehabilitated yourself?”

These problems of the trade agreements with China did not happen just the other day. These trade agreements happened a long time ago under the Liberal watch.

He is absolutely correct, though, that the Conservatives did say one thing in opposition and are now saying something completely different in government. They said the same thing to the widows of veterans in Cape Breton. The Prime Minister said, “Vote for us and we will immediately extend the VIP services for all widows of all veterans”.

He also wrote a letter to Danny Williams, the Premier of Newfoundland, saying to vote for the Conservatives, and that if they form government, they would invoke custodial management on the nose and tail of the Grand Banks. It still has not happened.

My question for the hon. member is simple. We know the Liberals made some serious mistakes when they were in government. Now they are in opposition and they see, maybe, the error of their ways. However, does the hon. member have any confidence that the Conservatives themselves will honour anything that they said in previous discussions when they were in opposition?

[Committees of the House, February 19th, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague talked about the falling prices of garments from China, which was a benefit to all Canadians. Did he say that to the garment workers who lost their jobs? Most of them shop now at Frenchys, the Salvation Army and thrift shops. Why are Frenchys stores across Nova Scotia, for example, booming in second hand business? Because people cannot afford the clothes in the first place.

When I was first elected in 1997, I bought a made in Canada suit from Moores Clothing for $195. When I went to get the same suit from Moores a few weeks ago, for roughly the same price, perhaps a few dollars difference, I noticed a sale on suits from China for $195. It was almost the same price I paid before for my made in Canada suit. Where is my saving?

Workers in Canada make at least minimum wage I hope, plus the health benefits, health care, the environment, all the other things that go along with the benefits. Yet the worker in China barely makes 35¢ or 50¢ an hour or whatever they make. I know fish plant workers in China make a hell of a lot less than that. He has said that it was a benefit to me, but where is my savings?

Try to buy shoes or good running shoes for under $100. We used to buy made in Canada shoes. Now they are all made in China, Indonesia and Malaysia and they all cost $100 or more. Try to find running shoes that have been made in Canada. Try to find a fish that has been processed in Canada. One of these days we will be trying to buy a car that is made in Canada, or power tools. When we go to Canadian Tire, Wal-Mart or Home Depot, all the power tools are made in China. What is next?

It is about time the government woke up and smelled the coffee. The reality is we will lose our manufacturing jobs. We are very quickly losing them now.

The textile workers were the canary in the coal mine per se. My mother-in-law worked in the textile industry in Montreal for well over 23 years. That was her entry job when she came to Canada. She was very proud to hunch over that table. Now she has a very sore back, but she was proud to do that work and then see those clothes for sale at a Bay or a Sears store down the road, Canadian stores.

Now we have American run department stores such as Wal-Mart, selling Chinese goods. Where is the benefit to Canadians in all of that? That is my question for my hon. colleague, for whom I have great respect.